PeterB Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) This is my reserve kit in case I either have problems with the Lincoln and have to abandon it, or maybe if I actually finish it early enough to do a second kit. As I mentioned in the intro to the Lincoln thread I converted the first Airfix moulding of the Lanc into a Manchester back in the early 1970's, but a few years back I came across the 2 Planet kits - MkI and MkIA and managed to persuade my family to buy one as a present - at around £70 it cost nearly twice as nuch as my next most expensive kit! The transparent bits are vac form and they thoughtfully provide 2 of each - everything else is resin. The only problem I am anticipating is gluing the large parts - wings and fuselage in particular. I have looked around for a "slow setting" CA glue, but the only one I found just gave 10 seconds to juggle into place which is no good. I was told that it is best to use 2 part epoxy so I will give that a try, but I will have to work in my shed as it stinks! I am open to suggestions from anybody who has built this sort of thing before as to what sort of glue they found best. I have normal CA, gel, and extra thin as well. More if and when I make a start. Pete Edited February 29, 2020 by PeterB 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Looking forwards to this. I used the Revel fuselage on mine, it's far better than the Planet one, particularly the front profile of the canopy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) Nice build Woody, I have neither the patience you have, nor the inclination to buy yet another Lancaster kit. If I get round to building it this STGB I will do it pretty much OOB. As a matter of interest, what sort of glue did you use on the resin wings? Cheers Pete Edited February 29, 2020 by PeterB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worms Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Gorilla 5 minute 2 part epoxy gives you wiggle room and a very strong joint! 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 Curiously, Planet have included 2 pilot type seats and show them side by side in the cockpit with a control column a bit like that on the He 111 - the wheel can be swung over so the "co-pilot" can drive. Not sure if that is correct and it was changed in the Lanc? Also I see @woody37 has painted his interior green, but I was under the impression that in the Lanc the actual 'pit was black. Any thoughts? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elger Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 5 hours ago, PeterB said: Curiously, Planet have included 2 pilot type seats and show them side by side in the cockpit with a control column a bit like that on the He 111 - the wheel can be swung over so the "co-pilot" can drive. Not sure if that is correct and it was changed in the Lanc? Also I see @woody37 has painted his interior green, but I was under the impression that in the Lanc the actual 'pit was black. Any thoughts? Pete Early Lancaster cockpits were almost entirely green - even the bomb aimer's position. I suspect Manchesters would have been too: https://www.lancaster-ed559.co.uk/building-ed559.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 6 hours ago, PeterB said: Curiously, Planet have included 2 pilot type seats and show them side by side in the cockpit with a control column a bit like that on the He 111 - the wheel can be swung over so the "co-pilot" can drive. Not sure if that is correct and it was changed in the Lanc? Also I see @woody37 has painted his interior green, but I was under the impression that in the Lanc the actual 'pit was black. Any thoughts? Pete Google Avro Manchester Cockpit, there's quite a few images should turn up. Tthe pilot's seat and control column were basically the same as the Lancaster but with the addition of a horizontal extension to the top of the control column with a second wheel attached. The 2nd pilot's seat folded down to lie against the stbd fuselage side, both of these clearly visible in photographs. The 2nd pilot's seat looks more substantial than that used by the flight engineer in the Lancaster. A very similar (if not identical) arrangement for the twin control wheels was used in some training Lancasters at OTU's and can be seen today in the BBMF Lancaster. 2nd pilot rudder pedals aren't visible in most views so were presumably removable to ease access into the nose. Colour wise, as elger says and woody37 does, interior grey-green throughout. Later Lancaster cockpits and noses and some turrets were indeed painted black, but the remainder of the interior remained grey-green 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 I would second the choice of a two part epoxy, I use it on my Magna kits which are seriously big lumps of heavy resin. I have the Blackbird Manchester conversion kit, looks OK, but wondering it it can be used with the Revell kit as if you have to mess around with the wing, might as well go the whole hog. I have spare wheels, although I am sure I have read that the Manchester wheels were smaller and the Revell Halifax wheels re alright (but too small for a Halifax). Good luck with the build, look forward to seeing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Dave Swindell said: Google Avro Manchester Cockpit, there's quite a few images should turn up. Tthe pilot's seat and control column were basically the same as the Lancaster but with the addition of a horizontal extension to the top of the control column with a second wheel attached. The 2nd pilot's seat folded down to lie against the stbd fuselage side, both of these clearly visible in photographs. The 2nd pilot's seat looks more substantial than that used by the flight engineer in the Lancaster. A very similar (if not identical) arrangement for the twin control wheels was used in some training Lancasters at OTU's and can be seen today in the BBMF Lancaster. 2nd pilot rudder pedals aren't visible in most views so were presumably removable to ease access into the nose. Colour wise, as elger says and woody37 does, interior grey-green throughout. Later Lancaster cockpits and noses and some turrets were indeed painted black, but the remainder of the interior remained grey-green Much like this, on the Canadian Warplane Heritage Lancaster. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Law Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Peter you are really in for an adventure with this one. Planet are not the easiest of kits. I have heard of a Zap Gel CA which has a 15 second setting time. Might be worth looking into. Good luck with the the kit. I will be watching this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) Here we go again! The first step is to clean up the fuselage and wings which have a bit of flash and some moulding stubs. The windows in the fuselage are also "flashed over" quite thickly so I will have to drill them out and clean them up, which could take some time. Tranparent windows are supplied in the kit but the instructions says "shape to fit", which is not going to happen - I will use Krystal Kleer or equivalent which will also save the need for masking. The wings are solid resin and ruddy heavy so I might end up having to reinforce the undercarriage! The fuselage and wings seem pretty "straight", but the interior floor over the bomb bay is bent like a banana so that has been clamped to a block of wood and given the hot water treatment. - make take several attempts but should be fixable. Incidentally, the wings looked a bit short to me but when I measured them they were about right. Whilst I cannot be certain until I glue it together, the tailplane seems to be the early 28ft version, so I will be modelling a machine with no mid upper turret, and a ventral FN21a turret which is provided in the kit, as are blanking plates for both the upper and lower positions. It was a real "Heath Robinson" contraption as you can see below. Only the lighter coloured part stuck out of the bottom of the plane when lowered hydraulically (there was a hand pump for emergencies which was apparently very slow and ruddy hard work). The two rectangular bits sticking down are retractable "foot wells" for the gunner and behind them was a quadrant shaped "fin" which was lowered into the airsteam, the top then becoming the gunner's seat. When stowed away all of these would be retracted and I guess the gun barrels would be hanging vertically. The kit part is nicely moulded but lacks the windows, and I will be fixing it in the up position. Needless to say, as with all other such ventral "dustbin turrets" it had a bad effect on the trim when lowered and slowed the plane down considerably so it was soon removed - at least in the Whitley the resulting hole was sometimes used for dropping parachutists. This kit is from CMK/Planet which is one of the Special Hobby family of companies, and seems pretty well detailed, but the transfer sheet has neither instument panel nor the walkways etc lines, so they will be provided from a combination of stock red and black line decals and whatever I can scrounge from the Frog sheets I used on the Lincoln. Providing I can get my head round gluing resin together, mostly with 5 minute epoxy it may not be too bad - the only downside being the vacform canopy and turrets, but at least they do provide two of each, and I have the turret glazing left over from the Airfix Lanc used in the Lincoln conversion as a possible back up. I am hoping that I can leave the nose and rear turret glazing off until the end of the build but we will see. The rear turret glazing is split down the middle so that could be a real pain! As this is my first full resin kit (as distinct to conversion sets) it will certainly be a learning process - the only other such kit I have is a Sopwith Dolphin which is not quite in the same league. So, with just under 6 weeks to go I had better crack on. Hopefully this will not be the first kit I have entered in a GB to be abandoned - I was rather expensive. See you later. Pete Edited April 20, 2020 by PeterB 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 The ventral turret, from Warpaint No. 103. Chris 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Looks like fun Pete! I’ll put money you’ll finish this one off as well and can just imagine that planned photo shoot of all your recent Avro beauties parked on that well build Welsh Wall. Cheers and all the best.. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 While cruising through My Pictures, looking for something unrelated, I found this: No other info. Chris 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffB Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Nice to see this one underway Pete . For what it's worth, I always use CA when building resin kits (but that's mainly because I turn into Mr Messy whenever I get the Araldite out!) For something like a wing joint, I first tack it in place using a couple of dots of CA gel. This allows use a bit of wiggle time. If I'm happy with the joint, I then run thin CA around the edge to finally secure it. I've never had any problems with joints failing. If you're not happy with your tacked joint, it's easy to snap it apart again and to remove the dots of gel CA using a blade. Whatever glue you use though, it's important to de-grease the resin parts thoroughly (warm soapy water), before assembling. Cheers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) Thanks Chris, Looks like it might not have fully retracting then - interesting. Judging by earlier pics the gun barrels were longer than the bottom part of the turret so I would have expected them to be hanging down in the last pic. Looks like I will have to improvise a bit. Incidentally, the turret seems to be painted a lighter colour than the black lower fuselage I would have expected, or maybe left in natural metal - perhaps it was a test installation? In the earlier pic you posted it looks like the underside was perhaps in prototype yellow! Hi Cliff, The fuselage is a bit flimsy and will need a little help to get it lined up, so I will be fitting locating tabs. I will probably use the 5 minute epoxy to glue the halves together at the tabs then clamp/tape it in place. Once dry I can run some thin CA in to finish the job.The wings look as if they could be made to fit pretty well and have a decent tab on them, but are ruddy heavy, so I think I will epoxy them. We shall see. The tail feathers are just butt fits so again I think epoxy. If you carefully wipe the joints with a damp paper towel with a little meths on - not too much mind- then the glue can be cleaned off before it sets and it fills the joins as well. The interior fitting will just be glued with CA. It will either work or it won't - time will tell. . Cheers Pete Edited April 22, 2020 by PeterB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 I have cleaned up the fuselage and wings and drilled/cut/filed out all the windows bar the ones in the extreme nose - I will leave them until the fuselage is together as they are very close to the edge of the nose. As you can see I have glued in the cockpit side panels and the floor, which is still slightly bent! I am currently making up the radio operator's panel in the foreground, and then have to make up the cockpit floor, seats, stick and IP. The fuselage is quite flexible and one half is a little deeper than the other so I have fitted some tabs to help align it. A dry fit shows it should be reasonable - no worse perhaps than the plastic Lanc fuselages have been in a number of the builds in this GB. The wings are not a bad fit so that is good - less good is the fact that although the main gear legs are fairly robust, the supporting struts are very thin and a bit frail so I might end up replacing some of them with brass tube for strength. I might also drill and pin the stabs. Some of the small resin parts are going to be a real pain I suspect - can but try! Cheers Pete 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Looking good for a start and best of luck with it. For the bigger resin kits I have used epoxy resin for the main structural parts after issues with CA. Like the Planet Manchester, some of the Magna kits like the Flamingo and Marathon had one piece wings and so a lot of strain put on the fuselage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Looking forwards to this, I haven't seen one built with a ventral turret before 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) Not sure you will this time either! It will either be fully or at least partly retracted unless I come up with some way of putting glazing in, which Planet have not allowed for, or painting them on. Depends on how much time I have and how mad I am feeling - I have yet to find a way to "paint" convincing windows and remember this will be on a black turret. Silver with a hint of white and perhaps metallic blue? I am open to suggestions. I realise that the weight of the wings will put quite a strain on the fuselage joins and if I were building it with the wheels retracted I would have to consider inserting some sort of spar, but as it will be standing on its wheels I think that should be ok, though I will probably need to reinforce the undercarriage or even replace it. Cheers Pete Edited April 24, 2020 by PeterB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted April 27, 2020 Author Share Posted April 27, 2020 The interior is coming along steadily. Only the IP and rudder pedals to add and it will be ready for a final dry fit. The detailing is not bad - they have even included what looks like a black-out blind above the radio operator's window. There are 4 seats provided, the 2 plain ones for the rear.and 2 identical "armchair" type pilot's seats. In one of the posts it says the second pilot had a folding seat like the engineer in the Lanc, but it was "more substantial" so I have cut off the arms and it will have to do. I can't quite see how it would fold flat against the starboard side ot the fuselage as suggested. The control column has the extension with the second wheel but there is only one set of pedals. I don't expect it would win any prizes for accuracy. The IP seems to be grey/green in the few pics I have found and has a lot less instruments than the Lanc having only 2 engines. There is no dec so I will paint on a few black dials. Back in June of last year I entered my very first GB and found it so enjoyable I am now simultaneously on my 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th with my 10th starting at the end of the week - beware, it is addictive! Those of you who were involved in my first, the Frog GB, may remember that about 3 weeks in we aquired a pair of 2 month old kittens - well they celebrated their first birthdays last Friday - how time flies! I was a bit hesitant about getting them initially having suffered the upset of losing 3 cats over the space of 2 years, the last one just a couple of months short of her 21st birthday, but I am now glad we took the risk - they have only broken one kit so far though I have to keep an eye on them. On the plus side they are reducing the local rodent population at the rate of 2 or 3 a week (that we know of) so that is not a bad thing, but they do have a habit of sitting next to the cage our neighbour keeps his Guinea Pigs in, and staring longingly at them - probably give the poor sods a nervous breakdown. Oh well, back to modelling. More anon. Pete 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 The main issue with the Planet fuselage is the shape of the windscreen from what I remember. I think I have a vac canopy for the old Airfix kit so be interesting to see how it fits, I still have my planet fuselage so will check. If it fits, you’re more than welcome to have it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted April 28, 2020 Author Share Posted April 28, 2020 Thanks Woody. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) Bit the bullet and started gluing the fuselage together. Initially I glued the 5 tabs with 5 minute epoxy and am leaving it to dry. Then I will start gluing with thin CA a few inches at a time. Not perfect but not too bad either at the moment. A fair bit of scraping/filing/filling/sanding and re-scribing to follow I suspect. Pics in a day or so. Pete Edited April 29, 2020 by PeterB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 That's looking most impressive Pete. You're making a great job of this and good to hear your GB addiction is alive and well. Cheers Dave (..oh say Happy Birthday to those kittens for me!). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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