fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, dogsbody said: Dude! Slow the frik down! I can't follow you at this breakneck pace. Give an old geezer a chance to catch up. Chris "The last shall be first" in the kingdom of heaven. In the kingdom of the British Commonwealth, they shall be the first too: The first to be eaten by the dinosaurs that are closing up from behind. Run! 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Dude, this ol' heathen ain't going anywhere near Heaven. Chris 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Mike Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 It's too slow for me. I've been educating myself on who Karaya are, and looking at their wares on ebay ... which was a bad move as they have an embarrassment of riches for anyone interested in early Supermarine and Schneider racers. Being a novice builder, and on the Airfix Starter Kit rung of the Modelling Experience Ladder, has helped me fight the urge to purchase half a dozen kits. (That I also can't afford.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 Gee! we have a (little) problem!: There were Gs under the stab, as demonstrated by this photo. But the kit only provides 2 for both sides of the rudder. Karaya: ts-ts, go to the blackboard and write 20 times "Should do better research" (although to be frank, I also missed it the first round of checking against photos): And if those Gs where underside the stab, chances are they also were on top, but can't verify on the few images I have of it. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 AND...we have another (slightly bigger problem) Looking at the photo above, you can see the registration letters ("G-E") under the right bottom wing, which of course means that "BAH" is under the left wing, and likely also on top of the upper wings. Sigh.... And everyone missed that, in any illustration, drawing and depiction that I know of. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 Ah, the delights of research... Going even deeper. We know that the plane was assigned #14 for the race, but I couldn't find any photo of it with that number, until now: (from Gallica, L'Aerophile Oct 1922): So, it looks like, yet again, I will have to commission a new, accurate, set of decals. Aiiiioooooo Silver!!!!!!!! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengalensis Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 How many times have I not been in this exact situation with racing cars. Thorough research pays off, apart from adding interesting insights. Well done, the model will benefit, a race number is always an improvement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Mike Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 10 hours ago, Moa said: Ah, the delights of research... Going even deeper. We know that the plane was assigned #14 for the race, but I couldn't find any photo of it with that number, until now: (from Gallica, L'Aerophile Oct 1922): I'm surprised how few photos there are about of 'No14' G-EBAH, especially as it won the '22 race. I only found one outside of the three already here, and it's pretty rubbish I'm afraid. https://www.abebooks.com/signed/1922-Photgraphs-Signed-Clinton-SCHNEIDER-TROPHY/22926117910/bd#&gid=1&pid=1 And while I was looking at Kayara kits I did find this thread on the same kit. I'm guessing it may already be on your radar. The builder also mentions the decal deficiencies you've already discovered. https://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=224&t=5317 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Quiet Mike said: I'm surprised how few photos there are about of 'No14' G-EBAH, especially as it won the '22 race. I only found one outside of the three already here, and it's pretty rubbish I'm afraid. https://www.abebooks.com/signed/1922-Photgraphs-Signed-Clinton-SCHNEIDER-TROPHY/22926117910/bd#&gid=1&pid=1 And while I was looking at Kayara kits I did find this thread on the same kit. I'm guessing it may already be on your radar. The builder also mentions the decal deficiencies you've already discovered. https://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=224&t=5317 Thanks Mike. I have found the first link during research, but the link to the build was unknown to me. The builder is actually a BMer too, who is in fact posting in this same thread. You are right, as I mentioned above somewhere the photographic material available for this plane is thin. Still, as you saw, investing some time in research disinterred treasures like the Gallica page. The only sort of nebulous area now for me is the engine pan/radiator and its strutting, that I think may be not exactly as described in the kit. The truth is out there... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 Still have to fix that air bubble on the headrest fairing. After taking the photo I applied a bit of Milliput that will hopefully be re-shaped when it is a bit more solid: Seven years ago good friend and fellow modeler David (thanks once more!) presented this wonderful gift that has been a very good reference since then: It has a nice plan of the plane and of course some useful historical notes: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 So this is what Karaya missed regarding the tail struts, they are not N struts, but go like in this rough sketch. References point out to issues with tail vibration or oscillation, thence perhaps the intended remedy. There was also a wire -not drawn- triangulating the "normal", more external struts: And yes, definitely Karaya missed a single strut that goes from the engine to the fuselage. advancing a bit diagonally, similar to this one seen in the Sea Lion III: 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo B Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Another interesting build. I need to get myself a copy of that book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Another interesting build faced with the usual skills and dedication! Beautiful kit , even if resin makes things moretricky. Not a problem for you ! Schneider cup saw a lot of interesting machines !!! I'm watching closely! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 On 2/29/2020 at 6:41 PM, Learstang said: I've got to get back to my three pints of bitters.) Don't forget the bag of peanuts! You'll need the protein... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Inspiring work on the Sealion with the usual hawk eyes to pick out those missing details. Will be interesting to see your decal fix. Stuart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Mike Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) It's off on a tangient, but unfortunatley that's the way my brains wired up. I ride past this house everyday, it's less than a mile into my usual work commute. This morning the small blue wall plaque caught my eye. (I don't know if these are still peculiar to England, but for those unfamiliar with them they denote that someone of importance lived here.) I knew Roy Chadwick of Avro fame lived on this avenue, but I thought that was few doors down? So I stopped - it was Supermarine owner Hubert Scott Paines home! Relevent here as he funded the 1922 Schneider entry, just before selling Supermarine for a huge sum in 1923. The descritption underneath is quite frankly aweful. A difficult man to sum up in so few words, so why waste one of them on a project he had no involvment in?! Surely replace Spitfire for Power Boats ... Daily cycle commute by Mike, on Flickr Edited March 2, 2020 by Quiet Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Moa said: Thanks Mike. I have found the first link during research, but the link to the build was unknown to me. The builder is actually a BMer too, who is in fact posting in this same thread. That’ll be me 😁. Sorry I thought I linked my build in your previous Karaya adventure. A couple of the photos you’ve dug up are unknown to me. The one showing the under tail G’s also gives some indication that the tub the engine sits in is not far off if not wholly correct. I’d not found a single photo that showed it during my build. what I did add was the additional support the goes vertically from the fuselage tail to the tail rudder and the central support to the engine. Edited March 2, 2020 by JamesP 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejj Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Quiet Mike said: It's off on a tangient, but unfortunatley that's the way my brains wired up. I ride past this house everyday, it's less than a mile into my usual work commute. This morning the small blue wall plaque caught my eye. (They denote that someone of importance lived here) I knew Roy Chadwick of Avro fame lived on this avenue, but I thought that was few doors down? So I stopped - it was Supermarine owner Hubert Scott Paines home! Relevent here as he funded the 1922 Schneider entry, just before selling Supermarine for a huge sum in 1923. The descritption underneath is quite frankly aweful. A difficult man to sum up in so few words, so why waste one of them on a project he had no involvment in?! Surely replace Spitfire for Power Boats ... Daily cycle commute by Mike, on Flickr I'm sorry to say that the blue plaque people don't seem to do all the research they should. Unlike model kit producers who go to the nnnth degree........ha ha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Photo for the tail braces. These are visible in pictures of the 1922 Sea Lion II but are more clearly shown on this later variant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, JamesP said: Photo for the tail braces. These are visible in pictures of the 1922 Sea Lion II but are more clearly shown on this later variant. Notice the registration on the upper wing, facing the other way around (than usual) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 4 hours ago, Quiet Mike said: It's off on a tangient Thanks for the interesting note, Mike. Also on a tangent, and for those interested on Schneider matters, here is a PDF on the Italian side of the story, with focus on the SIAI (Savoia) machines: http://www.avia-it.com/act/cera_una_volta/Echi/CUV_Echi_2016/Seg_art_apr_16/La_SIAI_alla_Schneider.pdf 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 The headrest area is repaired: If your sample is marred in the same way, there is another solution: this was actually a sort of box, hinged on the spine, that opened to both sides. You may remove the affected half and just bend a little piece of thin styrene to simulate the lid and pose it open. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 The position to anchor the beaching gear leg varies from plan to instructions. The former indicates under the wing struts, while the latter points out to a location much closer to the fuselage. In any case, I can't really verify this arrangement in any photo, and Karaya will forgive me if I feel a tad skeptic. The only photo I have (bad and blurry) showing the gear looks more as if the fork is like this sketch below, a normal suspension arrangement in planes, and not mounted over the wheel as in a bicycle front wheel: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo B Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Moa said: Thanks for the interesting note, Mike. Also on a tangent, and for those interested on Schneider matters, here is a PDF on the Italian side of the story, with focus on the SIAI (Savoia) machines: http://www.avia-it.com/act/cera_una_volta/Echi/CUV_Echi_2016/Seg_art_apr_16/La_SIAI_alla_Schneider.pdf Off topic but looking at those photos, it seems the S.65 had at least 2 different windscreen designs. Anyways, sorry to derail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 32 minutes ago, Jo B said: Off topic but looking at those photos, it seems the S.65 had at least 2 different windscreen designs. Anyways, sorry to derail. It was mentioned, together with other details (different fin/rudder and more), during the WiP for that model here at BM. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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