BallsBuster Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 I have started on a new project intending to build an early Thud in NMF. Strangely, having a few building articles at hand and a few other references I still cannot figure out a few simple things: - the colour of internal surfaces i.e. Wheel wells, internal sides of doors, refueling probe housing and mast. Trumpeter suggests white... It does make sense, but are there any other options? Unpainted? Or primed with cromate? - undercarriage legs and wheel hubs, again Trumpeter suggests white, but the photos and some references give metal... What is more likely for a NMF aircraft? - the canvas cover in front of the instrument panel in the cockpit. Trumpy suggests black, but may be olive drab? Cannot figure this one out based on black and white photos... - the internal framing of the glazing: black or cockpit grey? The later ones had it in black but what about the NMF aircraft? Would appreciate the suggestions... Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 I built such a subject a few years ago and here's what I found... First of all, only very few F-105Ds were left in natural metal, In reality these aircraft were finished in aluminum paint. This means that using various shades of Alclad or similar paints will not result in a realistic finish. On my model I used a coat of Vallejo model air Aluminum, without any variation. Wheel wells seem to have changed over time: from what I understood they started as green from the factory, then when repainted both green and silver were used. Later repaints were in white. On my model I used interior green. Gear legs were in silver while the inner side of the doors could be in the colour of the wheel wells or in silver. The refuelling probe area seems to have been in polished metal, both inside and outside. Don't know about other internal areas, they could have well been in zinc chromate or in green. Can't remember about the canvas cover on the instruments. If you've checked a few builds, you probably already know about the modifications required to build an early F-105D from the Trumpeter kits. If not, I'll dig my notes and post them here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) I can echo and add a little to what Giorgio has posted. I am assuming you are wanting to model an F-105B or F-105D. As Giorgio has commented, the B's were delivered in bare metal as well as the D's, but they quickly were painted overall with silver lacquer under Project Lookalike- mainly as protection from corrosion. I have read that early pre-Vietnam Thuds had chromate green wheel bays with painted aluminum struts and inner wheel doors; Vietnam era Thuds could have aluminum or white painted wheel bays. From photos it looks like the canvas instrument panel shroud was painted black, but looks like it weathered to a very dark grey pretty quickly. I have attached the T.O. for silver-painted Thuds for your use. The Detail in Scale on the F-105 is pretty much useless as a color reference, as it's one of the earliest releases and has very few color photos or even color references. Maybe Martin @RidgeRunner could help, as he is a real Thud aficionado! The 4th FG 335th FS D's with the green bands and TAC shield on the fin are very handsome Thuds and you can find photos of them in both bare metal and painted aluminum finish! Good luck! Mike https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-105/f-105_to.shtml https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/335th_Fighter_Squadron#/media/File:F-105s-4thtfw-sj.jpg Edited February 29, 2020 by 72modeler corrected spelling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 48 minutes ago, 72modeler said: I can echo and add a little to what Giorgio has posted. I am assuming you are wanting to model an F-105B or F-105D. As Giorgio has commented, the B's were delivered in bare metal as well as the D's, but they quickly were painted overall with silver lacquer under Project Lookalike- manly as protection from corrosion. I have read that early pre-Vietnam Thuds had chromate green wheel bays with painted aluminum struts and inner wheel doors; Vietnam era Thuds could have aluminum or white painted wheel bays. From photos it looks like the canvas instrument panel shroud was painted black, but looks like it weathered to a very dark grey pretty quickly. I have attached the T.O. for silver-painted Thuds for your use. The Detail in Scale on the F-105 is pretty much useless as a color reference, as it one of the earliest releases and has very few color photos or even color references. Maybe Martin @RidgeRunner could help, as he is a real Thud aficionado! The 4th FG 335th FS D's with the green bands and TAC shield on the fin are very handsome Thuds and you can find photos of them in both bare metal and painted aluminum finish! Good luck! Mike https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-105/f-105_to.shtml https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/335th_Fighter_Squadron#/media/File:F-105s-4thtfw-sj.jpg You're very kind Mike, but I wouldn't rate myself as an expert. However, I do have a lot of references and have built a few ;). @BallsBuster you would do well to heed Giorgio's advice. There were very few natural metal F-105s in long term service. Very quickly Project Lookalike took hold and they all took on a coat of lacquer. So, first point, check your references for your target aircraft and time period. - the colour of internal surfaces i.e. Wheel wells, internal sides of doors, refueling probe housing and mast. Trumpeter suggests white... It does make sense, but are there any other options? Unpainted? Or primed with cromate? - I'd say varied and so, again, check your references - undercarriage legs and wheel hubs, again Trumpeter suggests white, but the photos and some references give metal... What is more likely for a NMF aircraft? - NOT white for sure. I'd say Aluminium - the canvas cover in front of the instrument panel in the cockpit. Trumpy suggests black, but may be olive drab? Cannot figure this one out based on black and white photos... - black - the internal framing of the glazing: black or cockpit grey? The later ones had it in black but what about the NMF aircraft? - Hmmm..... not sure about that If you like Thuds get yourself the "best" (my view) references on the subject: "The Republic F-105 Thunderchief - Wing and Squadron Histories" by James Geer and "Thunderchief - The complete History of the Republic F-105" by Dennis R. Jenkins. You will not regret either purchase! Martin 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) For a bare metal or aluminum painted Thud, I would think chromate/nterior green for the wheel bays, with aluminum-painted struts and doors; I don't recall seeing any photos of Thuds in those two finishes having white wheel bays or struts- just camouflaged examples. Hard to find a good color photo of an actual, not restored Thud to see if the ip shroud was olive drab or black, as it's very hard to tell looking at b&w photos. Both of the Thud books @RidgeRunner named are outstanding, but unfortunately neither has a section on interior colors. Sorry I can't be of more assistance. Mike The F-105D's at the Air Force Museum and the Armament Museum at Eglin AB both have unrestored cockpits and the shrouds are a very weathered black, if that helps. Edited February 28, 2020 by 72modeler added text 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallsBuster Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 Thank you, gentlemen. Most of the questions are answered more or less. I am planning an early D and use the Print Scale decals for it. Besides I find it interesting and sort of unusual to build a silver Vietnam Era aircraft. I know that Thuds were covered in "aluminum" lacquer, but still there is some space to play with panel shades variations. Except, fully agree here, they should not have a pronounced metal sheen. It seems I need to do some extra research on internal framing of the canopy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallsBuster Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, 72modeler said: For a bare metal or aluminum painted Thud, I would think chromate/nterior green for the wheel bays, A quick question - do you mean the Green Zink Chromate which looks like WW2 US fighters cockpit color (not the Yellow Green Chromate primer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Yes, green. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallsBuster Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 54 minutes ago, BallsBuster said: Thank you, gentlemen. Most of the questions are answered more or less. I am planning an early D and use the Print Scale decals for it. Besides I find it interesting and sort of unusual to build a silver Vietnam Era aircraft. I know that Thuds were covered in "aluminum" lacquer, but still there is some space to play with panel shades variations. Except, fully agree here, they should not have a pronounced metal sheen. It seems I need to do some extra research on internal framing of the canopy... Beware of Print Scale decals mate. They are often wrongly sized. Check references Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, BallsBuster said: A quick question - do you mean the Green Zink Chromate which looks like WW2 US fighters cockpit color (not the Yellow Green Chromate primer) US interior green/zinc chromate green is usually stated as being a close match to FS595, 34151. It appears in period postwar photos that the color is a little different, being greener, with a close match reported to be FS595, 34138. ModelMaster has both colors in their enamel range, but probably hard to find nowadays. I have both paints and to me FS34138 looks more like what you would see on F-100's, F-102.s, F-105's and F-106's, with 34151 being more like what you would see on a WW2 aircraft. Bear in mind that yellow zinc chromate primer was mixed with black to get the 'tinted' green color as proof that a second required coat of primer had been applied, so the 'real' color could be anywhere in the range between those two colors. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Here are some early Thuds: https://flickr.com/photos/93503637@N05/sets/72157633718479218 including NMF and camo ones. Jari 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAT69 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Finn, thanks for the pictures of the early Thuds. I was most pleased to see pictures of Thuds carrying the early 450 center-line fuel tank. Those didn't last long and, not surprisingly, you won't find a kit manufacturer producing a model of the F-105 with anything other than the standard 650 gallon tank, if that is included. Note too that the center-line 450 had disappeared by the time the acrylic aluminum finish was being applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 My attempt at the 450gal cenrteline. Its not perfect but I'm happy Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reparty Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 On 2/28/2020 at 2:20 PM, BallsBuster said: - the internal framing of the glazing: black or cockpit grey? The later ones had it in black but what about the NMF aircraft? Would appreciate the suggestions... Regards, Internal canopy framing on the Thud would be black. That's pretty much true for most jet aircraft components in the crew's line of sight to avoid glare. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallsBuster Posted March 7, 2020 Author Share Posted March 7, 2020 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 2/28/2020 at 4:57 PM, 72modeler said: For a bare metal or aluminum painted Thud, I would think chromate/nterior green for the wheel bays, with aluminum-painted struts and doors; I don't recall seeing any photos of Thuds in those two finishes having white wheel bays or struts- just camouflaged examples. Hard to find a good color photo of an actual, not restored Thud to see if the ip shroud was olive drab or black, as it's very hard to tell looking at b&w photos. Both of the Thud books @RidgeRunner named are outstanding, but unfortunately neither has a section on interior colors. Sorry I can't be of more assistance. Mike I have the Detail & Scale but not to hand, sorry. I seem to remember notes about wheel well colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 hour ago, rossm said: I have the Detail & Scale but not to hand, sorry. I seem to remember notes about wheel well colours. Sadly, it is one of their earlier publications- it has very few color photos and no real information on cockpit or other interior colors. The photos of the wheel bays show either chromate green or white/light grey, with the gear struts looking like they are either aluminum paint or white/light grey; pretty much what was already posted. Because of the Thud's long service life and frequent overhauls/repaints, there are several possibilities for the finish applied to those areas. If at all possible, finding a photo of the subject desired would be the best bet. Maybe Bert Kinzey will update his Thud reference as a digital book and include many new photos that hopefully be more useful. A comprehensive reference book for Century Series fighter cockpits and interiors would be mighty nice...I can dream, can't I? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_W Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 Sorry guys for resurrecting this old thread. While deciding on a wheel well colour for my current F-105F build I revisited this video: https://youtu.be/MR2F677wYm0?t=1590 It has some good colour images of the bomb-bay including the wheels wells finished in zinc-chromate primer. And, it is an early Thud. The whole video is worth a look. Whether my subject (around 1969-70) had a repaint I am not sure. There are a couple of colour images of my subject "SAM Fighter" photographed at Da Nang that are not too revealing. Gear legs - possibly aluminium (or grey?). Inside gear doors appear aluminum. At this stage of my research, I have decided to go with wheel wells Gunze C-351 (FS34151). Gear legs and doors aluminium. @RidgeRunner @72modeler @Giorgio N I expect you have seen the video already but it still may be of interest. Any update in your research also welcome. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f111guru Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 On 2/28/2020 at 7:20 AM, BallsBuster said: I have started on a new project intending to build an early Thud in NMF. Strangely, having a few building articles at hand and a few other references I still cannot figure out a few simple things: - the colour of internal surfaces i.e. Wheel wells, internal sides of doors, refueling probe housing and mast. Trumpeter suggests white... It does make sense, but are there any other options? Unpainted? Or primed with cromate? - undercarriage legs and wheel hubs, again Trumpeter suggests white, but the photos and some references give metal... What is more likely for a NMF aircraft? - the canvas cover in front of the instrument panel in the cockpit. Trumpy suggests black, but may be olive drab? Cannot figure this one out based on black and white photos... - the internal framing of the glazing: black or cockpit grey? The later ones had it in black but what about the NMF aircraft? Would appreciate the suggestions... Regards, These may help with color questions. Pictures do say a thousand words. Various Thunderchiefs over the years. Some active and some display. May help. https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjA6wDo All The Best, Ron VanDerwarker 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_W Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 1 hour ago, f111guru said: May help. Hi Ron, Very useful selection of images. Ray 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 Not the best view but too dark for white: https://airrefuelingarchive.wordpress.com/category/f-105/ Jari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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