franky boy Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) Hi everyone Im just weighing up my possible build options for the Journeys End GB and thought this last bomber command raid of the war on Kiel might provide an interesting subject. I know the raid was carried out by Mosquitos, Mk ix’s and xiv’s. I was wondering if anyone has any info on any of the individual aircraft and squadrons that took part in the raid. I know 608 were one of the squadrons. And if there are any decal sheets available in 1/48 covering any of the aircraft? Ive found various articles on the internet but most of them come from newspaper articles marking the anniversary of the raid and I usually find this kind info not particularly accurate. TIA James Edited February 23, 2020 by franky boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Have you seen this?: https://www.bbc.com/news/education-32608774 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky boy Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 9 hours ago, JWM said: Have you seen this?: https://www.bbc.com/news/education-32608774 Thanks JWM Yes I found that one and also one from the Telegraph. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Chaz Bowyer's Mosquito Squadrons of the RAF gives a list of aircraft, sometimes with code correlations, which served with 609 Sq. Stripping out the post war T.3 and NF.30s, plus the aircraft which had already been lost/written off by 2-3 May 45, we are left with the following aircraft which, according to the Air Britain serials book, went on to serve with other units after 609 Sq and were Struck Off Charge after the war had ended. At least some of these aircraft were probably still with the squadron and flew in 608 Sq's last raid of the war. KB146 KB189 KB231 KB265 F KB356 KB413 V KB438 F KB441 Q KB413 and later are B.XXVs, the rest B.XX. I'm sorry I've found no photos at all of bomber Mosquitoes of this unit so have no idea on such matters are whether squadron codes were worn or black undersides applied. Phillip Moyes' Bomber Squadrons of the RAF gives some of the above plus the following B.XVIs operated between Mar and Aug 1945 (disbandment): PF483 V PF505 D (crashed April 45) RV360 F HTH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 From Sharp & MJF Bowyer's Mosquito (Crecy, 1995) the following aircraft took part in a raid on Berlin on 21/22 March 45. KB326 A KB356 B KB493 C KB451 D KB438 F KB355 G KB347 H KB358 J KB411 M KB491 P KB346 R KB400 U KB298 X KB405 Y At least some of these aircraft, apart from KB358 (SOC 4/4/45), KB411 (crashed 4/3/45) and KB400 (crashed 13/2/45 while with 142 Sq), probably took part in the 2/3 May 45 Kiel raid, which involved 63 Mosquitoes from 8 squadrons. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky boy Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) Thanks for the great info Seahawk. It’s a little surprising to find so little info available on this raid as it was the last of the war. More digging needed. James Edited February 24, 2020 by franky boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Aircraft & crew from No. 608 Sqn. that participated on the 2 May 1945 raid: XVI PF514 (X) F/O Wilson & Sgt. Bradshaw XVI RV363 (H) W/O McFarland & Sgt. Woodman XVI PF492 (E) W/O Portway & Sgt. Pickett XVI PF502 (J) F/O Smith & F/O Hart XVI RV344 (T) W/O Eguss & Sgt. Anderson XVI RV343 (W) W/O Trezona & Sgt. Hawkes XVI RV361 (Z) P/O Nichol & F/S Easy XVI PF505 (D) W/Cdr. Gray & Capt. Mehre (RNoAR) XVI PF483 (V) P/O Turner & F/S Bryant XVI RV358 (C) F/Lt. Lilley & P/O Hossank XVI PF485 (Y) F/Lt. Macormac & P/O Wearn XVI PF512 (G) F/O Pickard & P/O Spinks XVI RV347 (A) F/Lt. Hobbs & P/O Dennis XVI RV351 (R) W/O Smith & Sgt. Dawson XVI PF495 (B) F/Lt. Duncan & P/O O’Brian XVI PF489 (U) F/Lt. Caiger & F/S Giokas From squadron ORB AIR 27/2101. Bengt 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bengt said: From squadron ORB AIR 27/2101. Nothing like the horse's mouth. Absolutely zero correspondence with the ranging shots around the target I provided: I'm glad of those "probably"s. It's clear that 608 completely re-equipped with Mosquito B.XVIs between Mar and 2-3 May 45. Edited February 25, 2020 by Seahawk 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky boy Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 54 minutes ago, Seahawk said: Nothing like the horse's mouth. Absolutely zero correspondence with the ranging shots around the target I provided: I'm glad of those "probably"s. It's clear that 608 completely re-equipped with Mosquito B.XVIs between Mar and 2-3 May 45. 2 hours ago, Bengt said: Aircraft & crew from No. 608 Sqn. that participated on the 2 May 1945 raid: XVI PF514 (X) F/O Wilson & Sgt. Bradshaw XVI RV363 (H) W/O McFarland & Sgt. Woodman XVI PF492 (E) W/O Portway & Sgt. Pickett XVI PF502 (J) F/O Smith & F/O Hart XVI RV344 (T) W/O Eguss & Sgt. Anderson XVI RV343 (W) W/O Trezona & Sgt. Hawkes XVI RV361 (Z) P/O Nichol & F/S Easy XVI PF505 (D) W/Cdr. Gray & Capt. Mehre (RNoAR) XVI PF483 (V) P/O Turner & F/S Bryant XVI RV358 (C) F/Lt. Lilley & P/O Hossank XVI PF485 (Y) F/Lt. Macormac & P/O Wearn XVI PF512 (G) F/O Pickard & P/O Spinks XVI RV347 (A) F/Lt. Hobbs & P/O Dennis XVI RV351 (R) W/O Smith & Sgt. Dawson XVI PF495 (B) F/Lt. Duncan & P/O O’Brian XVI PF489 (U) F/Lt. Caiger & F/S Giokas From squadron ORB AIR 27/2101. Bengt Thanks Seahawk and Bengt. Im correct in thinking the squadron code was 6T? Would this have been in red or sky? Thanks again James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Combat Codes gives examples of squadron and aircraft code combinations for Mosquito XX, 25 and XVI aircraft which suggest the squadron code of 6T was painted up. In the continuing absence of any photos of 608 Sq Mosquitoes I would speculate on Red if undersides in Black and Sky if undersides in Medium Sea Grey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 On 2/23/2020 at 10:32 PM, JWM said: Have you seen this?: https://www.bbc.com/news/education-32608774 in above link there is a photo showing light bottom and code letters, most likely in Sky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 If 608 did not re-equip with B.XVIs until Mar 45 (Moyes in Bomber Squadrons of the RAF), 8T-V seems to have racked up an impressive number of sorties in a very short time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 hours ago, JWM said: in above link there is a photo showing light bottom and code letters, most likely in Sky I'm not sure. If I had to guess I would say that the letters near the roundel were in red. 10 minutes ago, Seahawk said: If 608 did not re-equip with B.XVIs until Mar 45 (Moyes in Bomber Squadrons of the RAF), 8T-V seems to have racked up an impressive number of sorties in a very short time. Possibly a hand me down from another squadron? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, JasonC said: I'm not sure. If I had to guess I would say that the letters near the roundel were in red. Indeed, the gray tone is not far from that of roundel center... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Going back to the original question, Sharp & Bowyer state that this final raid on Kiel involved Mosquitoes from eight squadrons, sixty-three in the first wave and fifty-three in the second. It’s also stated that 139, 105 & 109 Squadrons were among those involved in target marking, the latter two using Oboe. Furthermore ‘Beam Bombers’ (Cummings) has one of the 109 Sqn aircraft as RV316 (a B.XVI), it being stated that this was the last Oboe attack of the war. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky boy Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 14 hours ago, JasonC said: I'm not sure. If I had to guess I would say that the letters near the roundel were in red. Possibly a hand me down from another squadron? 13 hours ago, JWM said: Indeed, the gray tone is not far from that of roundel center... Thanks for the further reply’s chaps. Jason and JWM, I’m inclined to agree with you that the codes could well be red. Makes for a more colourful model to. 😀 James 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky boy Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Anyone care to make a guess at what the writing in italics on the nose says in the above photo? Edited February 26, 2020 by franky boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Well 63 + 53 = 116, not the 126 I was quoted, ta. Can anyone hazard a guess at how long the raid, ie the bombing bit actually took. I can't imagine 60 mossies taking more than a few minutes to cover the target, so really how far apart were these waves, or ideally a record from either wave. I've seen a time somewhere and I think it was 00:20 GMT. The following morning the city was being abandoned, and the very next morning Tony Hibbert, on crutches and in a cast, accepts Doenitz' surrender. His rep turned up at Luneberg later in the day. It's not just coincidentally the last raid, it's a key part of Operation Eclipse and quite literally the last action, certainly involving artillery, of the war certainly our side of the Elbe. It was also a devastating display from 8 Group. I understand there were no losses of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 According to Bomber Command 142 bomber sorties, 138 attacked the primary target, 2 other targets, 69x4,000 pound M2, 227x500 pound MC, 20x250 pound TI, 24 flares. Total 176.9 long tons of bombs. According to Richard Davis 3 Oboe guided raids, aircraft attacking were 6 sorties to Husum Airfield (10.7 tons of bombs), 6 to Eggebek airfield (14.3 tons), 126 to Kiel (154.6 tons). In addition there were 11 high level and 61 low level intruder sorties, 83 bomber support sorties and 6 counter measures sorties. Bomber Command War Diaries state the Kiel raid was in 2 waves an hour apart. Total losses for the night 2 RCM Halifax III and 1 Mosquito XIX, of the total of 18 men on board, 15 killed, 2 PoW, 1 Evaded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kari Lumppio Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) Hello! I was reading this with nothing important to do and did already have the 163 Sqn ORB on hard disk. Checked it and the unit did participate the Kiel operation. As an answer to original question I did type the planes with serials and codes plus the crew using the same format Bengt did above for 608 Sqn. 163 Sqn ORB AIR 27/1078-11 1945 2/3rd May, Duty: Bombing KEIL (sic, KL) Takeoffs between 2122-2226 and landings between 0049-0218 "no opposition" XXV KB505 (A) W/O Fogo & F/O Severson XXV KB510 (B) F/O Irvinn & F/O THomson XXV KB474 (C) F/O Wagener & P/O Levis XXV KB488 (D) F/O Holmes & Walters XXV KB511 (E) F/L Boman & F/O D'Arcy XXV KB526 (F) F/L Roberston & F/O Lee XXV KB538 (H) F/O Harris (only one crew name on file, KL) XXV KB518 (J) F/L Morgan & Sgt Coombes XXV KB624 (G) F/O Rowe & Sgt Newton XXV KB539 (Q) S/L Duncan & P/O Parker XXV KB555 (R) F/O Brookbank & F/L Tompson XXV KB623 (S) W/O Duxbury & F/S Inch XXV KB464 (T) F/L Watson & S/L George XXV KB411 (U) F/L Spack & F/O Boulton XXV KB427 (X) F/O Cresswell & Sgt Robinson XXV KB541 (Y) F/O Boulter & Sgt Hart No guarantees of correct spelling of names. Thread below does contain some additional info and links. Cheers, Kari Edited March 16, 2021 by Kari Lumppio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Geoffrey Sinclair said: According to Bomber Command 142 bomber sorties, 138 attacked the primary target, 2 other targets, 69x4,000 pound M2, 227x500 pound MC, 20x250 pound TI, 24 flares. Total 176.9 long tons of bombs. According to Richard Davis 3 Oboe guided raids, aircraft attacking were 6 sorties to Husum Airfield (10.7 tons of bombs), 6 to Eggebek airfield (14.3 tons), 126 to Kiel (154.6 tons). In addition there were 11 high level and 61 low level intruder sorties, 83 bomber support sorties and 6 counter measures sorties. Bomber Command War Diaries state the Kiel raid was in 2 waves an hour apart. Total losses for the night 2 RCM Halifax III and 1 Mosquito XIX, of the total of 18 men on board, 15 killed, 2 PoW, 1 Evaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Apologies, we are experiencing technical difficulties. Thanks Geoffrey. So 126 on the night but some to Denmark, and it wasn't a clean night alas. An hour apart was what I was after, much obliged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 No, those two are just northern most airfields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 I didn't know you could have 3 targets, or is it 2 and something else ? very close by all directed by oboe. I have wondered how many raids you could mount over the Ruhr simultaneously with it. The only other aircraft appear to be a handful of Halifax, two of which get shot down with the loss of all but one. Why are we using those I wonder. These obviously were the last men to die from Bomber Command. RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 https://462squadron.com/pages/halifax_III.html I need to find out what RCM is. What are these guys doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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