Rakovica Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) Trying to find on the internet, but nothing shows up... Is there any aftermarket set offering the correct cowlings, or cowling fronts, for the 1/72 Academy/Minicraft B-24 kit? I noticed a few such sets in 1/48, as well as Quickboost set for 1/72 Academy B-17 kit for example, which has a similar too square and incorrect cowlings, but what about Liberator? Thanks in advance. Edited February 22, 2020 by Rakovica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 There are some High Planes ones but I haven't seen them in person https://www.hpmhobbies.com/products/High-Planes-Consolidated-B24-Liberator-engines-x-4-for-Academy-kit-(Accessories-1%3A72).html Alternatively the relevant parts off an old Airfix B-24 are much closer to the mark than the Academy ones, so maybe you can find an unloved Airfix kit or discarded built model to recycle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakovica Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 That's interesting, thanks. Too bad there's no photo of the actual thing... Anyone has it maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) @Rakovica, What WIP stated about the Airfix kit cowling fronts is correct- they are excellent, and although the engine fronts are molded with the cowling fronts, they are very accurate and nicely detailed, and when painted correctly look great! Betting you can find an Airfix kit pretty cheaply. To my knowledge, nobody has done cowling fronts in 1/72. just Vector and Neomega in 1/48, but you could look for photos of them online to use as a reference, as their sets included engines, superchargers and cowlings. Quickboost did make superchargers, engines, and props for the B-24 in 1/72, but the R-1830 engines they molded were pretty generic and I don't think the magnetos were correct for the B-24. I have attached a couple of links to walkarounds that have good views of the cowling fronts as well as a good closeup photo of the engine and cowling front. Hoping this helps a little! Mike http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/WBP/anoka12.htm http://www.aviation-history.com/consolidated/b24.html https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-b24-consolidated-liberator-ww2-bomber-plane-pratt-whitney-r-1830-engine-53739712.html If you do get an Airfix kit, the props are pretty good overall, but need some reshaping at the root- see the photos of the real thing, and you will see what needs to be done. I wasn't impressed with the Quickboost B-24 props, as they just looked like copies of the Academy kit props- with a little reshaping, the Academy props will look pretty good. Another problem, but not really easy or worth fixing unless you are a Liberator fanatic or suffer from terminal AMS, is that the prop hubs are undersized, but it seems almost every kit by every manufacturer has that problem- for the life of me, with the current technology, I fail to see why it is so hard to mold a prop with the correct blade shape with a hub that isn't undersized. (Just a personal bias of mine, and I'm not the least bit ashamed to admit it- propellers are a very distinct characteristic of most propeller-driven aircraft, especially if they don't have a spinner fitted.) I wish you success on your quest- can't have too many Liberator WIP's or RFI's on BM, (Somebody's got to take up the slack when @tonyot and @Courageous aren't building one!) MIke Edited February 23, 2020 by 72modeler corrected spelling, added text 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakovica Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) Thanks Mike, it's sure helpful. I've always thought that Academy Liberator is not a bad kit at all, even when compare it with the priceless Hasegawa kit, except of the turrets and cowlings. I'll see what I can do, will try to get either the High Planes replacement set or the vintage Airfix kit. Edited February 22, 2020 by Rakovica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMA131Marine Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) Edit: NVM - I should have read the thread more closely 🤦♂️ High Planes Models seem to offer a set of B-24 cowlings to fit the Minicraft kit. Price is reasonable too. https://www.hpmhobbies.com/products/High-Planes-Consolidated-B24-Liberator-engines-x-4-for-Academy-kit-(Accessories-1%3A72).html Edited February 22, 2020 by VMA131Marine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, VMA131Marine said: High Planes Models seem to offer a set of B-24 cowlings to fit the Minicraft kit. Price is reasonable too. https://www.hpmhobbies.com/products/High-Planes-Consolidated-B24-Liberator-engines-x-4-for-Academy-kit-(Accessories-1%3A72).html Price seems reasonable, but I bet the shipping is as much or more than the set from Oz! They do look very nice, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janneman36 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 17 hours ago, 72modeler said: Price seems reasonable, but I bet the shipping is as much or more than the set from Oz! They do look very nice, though. And here a few ..can’t tell you what shipping will do to the overal price.. https://www.aviationmegastore.com/corrected-b24-liberator-engine-cowls-academy-hpa072009-high-planes-models-hpa072009-vliegtuigmotoren/product/?action=prodinfo&art=58914 cheers,Jan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALG Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 The B-24 series - including the LB-30 - actually utilized three different sizes of propellers. At least some if not all LB-30's used an extremely narrow Curtiss prop, thin enough that it was often referred to as the "needle prop", Model C532D-F22. Numerous problems were encountered with this prop, most likely resulting in its replacement. This was followed on B-24's by a narrow Ham Standard blade, the 11.5 foot diameter model 6353A-18. While this prop was adequate for lower-altitude operations, it proved inadequate for higher altitudes. In the original engine installation of the XB-24B serious cooling difficulties were encountered. It was not possible to cool the engine to normal operating temperatures at normal power at altitudes above 15,000ft. In addition, the carburetor-air temperature was as much as 23F above the allowable limit. Testing resulted in extending the cowl to reduce clearance between the front of the cowl at full-feathered prop setting from 3 inches to roughly 1/2 inch. While this and some internal changes provided sufficient (but just barely so) cooling at an altitude of 25,000 feet, the AAF requested additional tests to obtain satisfactory cooling at both normal and military power at a critical altitude of 35,000 feet. Starting in roughly October, 1942, production B-24's switched to the "wide blade" (Ham Standard 11' 7" blade 6477A-0, frequently referred to as the "paddle blade") installation similar to that then currently being installed on B-17F's. This new installation required additional modifications to the cowl and various internal equipment related to governing the prop. However, with the move to the wide blade a problem was found with the inability to fully feather the prop due to interference from the long cowling. PROP/COWLING INSTALLATION Long Cowling/ Ham Standard Thin Prop B-24D, ending with the D-13-CO production block (41-23969) B-24E-1-FO 42-6976 to 42-7005 B-24E-1-DT 41-28409 to 41-28416 Short Cowling/ Ham Standard Wide Prop B-24D-15-CO 41-23970 and subsequent B-24's B-24E and B-24G aircraft Douglas-built B-24's Being the B-24, there is, of course, a notable exception to the above. Given the low-altitude nature of this work, AAF ASW aircraft (479BG and 480BG IIRC), starting in July, 1943, switched out the short cowl/wide blade to the long cowl/narrow Ham Standard blades, modifications to take place at the Middletown Air Depot. In addition, turbo superchargers and intercoolers were removed. These changes resulted in a gigantic reduction in weight totaling one ton per aircraft. This gave the aircraft improved take off and range performance. How many previously-delivered ASW aircraft were also similarly modified is unknown to me. A good photo will always be your best guide here. I also do not know if Navy PB4Y-1's involved in ASW work had this modification performed. Unfortunately, I cannot immediately find the actual lengths of the long and short cowl. When/if I do I shall post them here. Submitted for your consideration, AlanG 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Holden Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 43 minutes ago, ALG said: Unfortunately, I cannot immediately find the actual lengths of the long and short cowl. When/if I do I shall post them here. Never knew that. Sounds like we need a book on the early Liberators to accompany your excellent 'Consolidated Mess'........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet133 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 A couple of bits of info: HPM - these will ship from Singapore not OZ as where they are based now (and for the last decade). Would be reasonable but I did not check. Aviation Megastore - Shipping is horrendous as they will only use people like DHL etc. I put a set in checkout. it was 10.7 Euros for the cowls plus 38.54 Euros for shipping to Australia, almost 4 times as much as the goods themself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Duvalier Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 On 2/22/2020 at 11:23 AM, 72modeler said: Another problem, but not really easy or worth fixing unless you are a Liberator fanatic or suffer from terminal AMS, is that the prop hubs are undersized, but it seems almost every kit by every manufacturer has that problem- for the life of me, with the current technology, I fail to see why it is so hard to mold a prop with the correct blade shape with a hub that isn't undersized. If I had an injection moulding machine I'd market an injected prop upgrade set. Imagine perhaps eight Tamiya F4U quality props on a sprue with various blade setups to accommodate your latest modelling endeavour. And correct HS logo decals printed with metallic gold ink. If any manufacturers are reading this, hint hint. The HPM nacelle fronts are obviously cast from the Airfix parts, but have the advantage of casting flaws and a price higher than one would pay for an entire Airfix B-24 kit, plus shipping fees and the wait time for the slow boat from Singapore. And you also get the added fun of using epoxy or CA instead of boring old convenient liquid cement. What's not to love? If anybody wants one or both of the sets I bought in blind and ultimately forlorn hope from HPM, hit me up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakovica Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 Mr Duvalier, check your pm inbox please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Duvalier Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Rakovica asked for photos of the HPM cowlings, I figured I'd post them here for general informative purposes. I've done a bit of light cleanup on these units: They aren't utter garbage, whoever prepared the masters (I'm thinking it was Ron of Ron's Resins) improved the cowl flaps from the Airfix kit. There's still a lot of cleanup to be done and I'm not convinced they're the best solution. But it is an option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wm Blecky Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 What about contacting Hasegawa and purchasing the sprues that contain the cowlings from their B-24 kit? Gives you everything thing you need. Cost couldn't be more than buying those atrocious looking resin cowlings, even if there is a difference, the end result would be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 On 2/23/2020 at 3:58 PM, Roger Holden said: Never knew that. Sounds like we need a book on the early Liberators to accompany your excellent 'Consolidated Mess'........... The author is working on it! You can visit the MMP website from time to time to check for the release date, or better yet, select to be notified of new releases...I have a feeling part 2 is going to sell out fast, if the first volume is any indication. Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Jackson Duvalier said: They aren't utter garbage, 8 hours ago, Wm Blecky said: those atrocious looking resin cowlings Fwiw, they're what I'll be using on my two Academy Libs, plus their PB4Y-2 ones on the Privateer kit I have. Imho they look fine & when I look at the number of photos of these aircraft that show little if any interior engine detail other than the engine face, I can't see the point in going further. Each to their own of course, just my take on it. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBayKid Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Wm Blecky said: What about contacting Hasegawa and purchasing the sprues that contain the cowlings from their B-24 kit? Gives you everything thing you need. Cost couldn't be more than buying those atrocious looking resin cowlings, even if there is a difference, the end result would be worth it. The problem with that is that the Hasegawa cowlings are wrong as well. The side intakes are not symmetrical on the Hasegawa parts as they are on the real aircraft, and they are also too small and shallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Duvalier Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 1 hour ago, NorthBayKid said: The problem with that is that the Hasegawa cowlings are wrong as well. The side intakes are not symmetrical on the Hasegawa parts as they are on the real aircraft, and they are also too small and shallow. I've planned my hypothetical "Ultimate Liberator" builds around the Hasegawa kits (because best in scale) and this intelligence makes me want to bang my head against a wall. Why does everyone botch this one feature? Maybe I'll use the cowlings from that old Revell Lib. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 That's correct, the Hase cowlings are not that accurate. However, they may be the best available and the easiest to modify to make an accurate resin replacement if you are going for the "Ultimate Liberator". They are also not easy to obtain. Hase have a policy of not supplying spare parts except for warranty replacements. This may help........... http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/311780-hasegawa-replacement-parts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALG Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 I have ordered copies of the original drawings (I have the drawing numbers) of both the short and long B-24 cowls. I have no idea how long it will take to get them as the source is not exactly known for rocket-like responses. Once I have them I will redraw them as I intend to include them in Vol. II of "Consolidated Mess". When I've redrawn them I'll post them here. Sorry I can't give you more information on a timeline. The joys of research. AlanG 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigster Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 I do have couple of Ac/Mi Liberators "pending" :-) There is a lot of talk about cowlings in some a/c i.e. Catalina, yet I would like to see, what is the problem. "The design of the engine nacelles would be the same as the PBY Catalina". <That's from: http://www.aviation-history.com/consolidated/b24.htm Funny!!! There was a lot of modellers agonizing about nacelles in AcMin B-25 in :48. In the end a bit of circular sanding of openings. Wow! So some proper measurements will do better, than "it looks wrong", which is so popular lately Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 It seems likely that the initial design and production cowling for the B-24 was the same as or very similar to the Catalina. These were circular. However, both types lacked turbochargers. This required a fairly complete redesign to the familiar wide oval with cheek intakes, as seen in the photos above and the Minicraft tooling. I gather, however, that the latter are too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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