Female Mark IV before she became Beutepanzer

[KRK4m]

There's the well known "Hanni" Beutepanzer that earlier (before the Cambrai capture) belonged to the Batallion F.

It is pictured there   https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/614178467906792780/

wearing the French-style three- (or maybe even four-) colour camouflage of sand, chestnut brown and blue grey (plus pale green according to M.Filipiuk at Batailles & Blindes in 2008).

According to some authors the camouflage has been retained during its German service with photos documenting both sides available.

My question is whether are there any pictures known of the same Mark IV Female tank from the pre-Cambrai period of her service (as F.7) within the Batallion F?

Was the side s/n (four digit) overpainted? Was the F.7 on the back (the one visible from the rear) white or yellow? Was it repeated on the roof? Was there any individual name painted on?

Cheers

Michael 

Edited February 20, 2020 by KRK4m
a misprint

[Kingsman]

On 2/20/2020 at 7:16 PM, KRK4m said:

According to some authors the camouflage has been retained during its German service with photos documenting both sides available.

I would very much like to see those photos.

 

Several tanks captured by German forces were later re-captured by British forces.  That could explain F7 in Buntfarbenanstrich but with British markings.  Except........... that British forces would not have had the right colour paint with which to overpaint the tatzenkreuz as shown in the artwork.  Which I therefore suspect is a work of fiction.  In any case a tank in German colours is still likely to be mistaken for German.

 

I am not aware of any British tanks ever using French-style camouflage.  Camouflage painting of British tanks was discontinued as useless after the Mk I and the few Mk IIs that saw active service: i.e after Arras.  But if there is photo proof.............  Any colourised photo is of course utterly untrustworthy as no-one knows the right colours to colourise.  There was no codification of colours until the 1930s and manufactured ready-mixed paint did not exist in WW1.

 

If you look at photos you will see that not all tanks carried the white 4-digit serial: many did not.  As the number of tanks grew, not all of them carried names.

 

Tactical numbers were in white, although some may (and I say may) have been counter-shaded in a darker colour to give a 3D effect to make them stand out more.

 

There would not have been any number painted on the roof.  What would be the point?  Who would see it?  Aircraft?  No radio.  MkVs, possibly some MkIVs, had the cab roofs painted with the red-white-red flash so that aircraft could recognise tanks from the air.  It stood out.

 

You might get a better response to your questions over on the WW1-specific Landships forum site https://landships.activeboard.com/

[KRK4m]

On 3/1/2020 at 1:21 AM, Das Abteilung said:

Tactical numbers were in white, although some may (and I say may) have been counter-shaded in a darker colour to give a 3D effect to make them stand out more.

 

There would not have been any number painted on the roof.  What would be the point?  Who would see it?  Aircraft?  No radio.  MkVs, possibly some MkIVs, had the cab roofs painted with the red-white-red flash so that aircraft could recognise tanks from the air.  It stood out.

Thank you for this detailed entry. Thus do you mean this C.56 Crusader II scheme with "numbered" roof also some kind of fiction?

https://www.mrmodellbau.com/1-35-MR-Models/Complete-Models-Conversion-Kit/Wehrmacht/MR-35431-stowage-and-tow-cables-Mark-IV-Tank-Male-Female-Takom::736.html?language=en

 

Cheers

Michael

Edited March 3, 2020 by KRK4m

[Kingsman]

I would say yes, fiction.  Notwithstanding any photo evidence to the contrary.  You have to be very wary of trusting WW1 artwork and there are more than a few fanciful and incorrect models out there.  Period uncolourised photos are your only reliable evidence.

 

What on earth would be the purpose of a roof number in WW1? Ground troops can't see it.  Aircraft can see it (but probably can't read it) but can't communicate with it.  What would be the point of them reporting a number back to HQ, who also can't communicate with it?

 

Trails with aircraft of various roof markings on tanks settled on the large red-white-red marking on the entire cab roof as the one that could best be seen from typical observation altitudes.  Many Whippets had their entire engine cover painted red-white-red.  So a number was unlikely to be legible.

[Graham Boak]

Aircraft of the period would be flying low enough to read large numbers on the top of tanks.  Trench strafing was not a high level activity, though admittedly the aircraft would have been flying too fast during the actual pass.  Getting information back to HQ would certainly be regarded as helpful to the staff's understanding of the battle, despite the lack of immediate communication with the individual.  It might also help in the allocation of awards afterwards, especially perhaps those granted posthumously.  

Edited March 3, 2020 by Graham Boak

[Kingsman]

I can't recall right now where I read it, but trials of means of aircraft recognising brown tanks against terrain experimented with a range of roof markings, and the red-white-red cab roof was the only one the aircrew reported that they could reliably see.  So numbers seem unlikely at best.

 

There was no effective means of ground to air coordination in WW1 and AFAIK there was no direct close air support of attacks. Yes there was stafing and bombing of trenches and rear areas.

[Cometracer]

Interesting.  There aren't all than many publications about trophy vehicles, but those there are seem to have few photos.