Bandsaw Steve Posted September 27, 2022 Author Share Posted September 27, 2022 1 hour ago, robgizlu said: Good to see this "In labour" as it were Steve. The epithet "Bandsaw" is well earned! Rob Ironically So far I haven’t actually used a bandsaw once on this project. 😳 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted September 27, 2022 Author Share Posted September 27, 2022 13 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said: Gidday Steve, I'd imagine that the shape of screw blades would vary over the years. If you can find any early photos of screw ships in drydock that might help. Also if the screw is left- or right-turning (the direction of the top blade when viewed from behind the ship). Regards, Jeff. We can do better than that Jeff. Propellors and Other Stuff The propellor was still with the wreck when the archeology team surveyed it. The original plan was to display the engine and propellor as shown below, but in the end recovering this much was beyond the limited financial means of the project. Whether the propellor was recovered or remains on the sea-floor I do not know. I have no recollection of it being in the Xantho gallery so suspect it's still in-situ. The team of steam-engine enthusiasts who spent some 20 years de-concreting the engine found out a number of very surprising things along the way, each of which reveal just how makeshift Xantho's machinery and conversion from paddler to screw steamer really was: They found a small loose nut (as in 'nut and bolt') inside one of the cylinders. It must have been accidentally dropped into the cylinder and then sealed in place upon the engine's assembly. It stayed there rattling around for the rest of the vessel's life. They found that the bilge pump drive was permanently connected to the engine. Apparently whenever the engine was running, the bilge pump was working. There was no choice about it. With this in mind please note that my comment at the start of this thread ‘The decision was made to turn back to Port Gregory and the ship's pumps were started' is apparently incorrect as the pump must have been running from the start of the journey. The propellor was of the opposite pitch for that which was supposed to be fitted to this engine! Therefore to drive the ship forward the engine had to be run backwards and vice-versa. Apparently this can be proven by the layout of the engine's lubricating points which indicate that the lubrication was only optimal when the ship was reversing! Apparently this greatly increases the wear on the engine and underscores the fact that the engine was very much a supplement to the sails and not the other way around. If it had been run too hard for too long it would have soon broken down beyond repair. Suffice to say that the whole set-up was pretty jury-rigged. During preparation of the drawings Ross Shardlow burned a few too many calories worrying that the tips of the six foot diameter propellor would very nearly break the surface of the water. I had already struggled with exactly this problem and came to the conclusion that the tips of the propellor blades would be right at the surface (see below). Ross argued that this would be inefficient and no competent engineer would design such an arrangement. Doubtlessly that's all true, but it's clear that design efficiency and high standards of engineering were not Mr Robert Stewart's prime concerns. My interpretation is that he just slapped on whatever propellor he could find and if the tips of it splashed about a bit it was not his problem. Ross reluctantly relented. If you look at his drawings below he's sheepishly drawn the propellor in, but only very faintly, he's still not happy with it! 😁 Archeology eh... Interesting stuff. Bandsaw Steve 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKrypton Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said: Interesting stuff. Interesting indeed. The kind of stuff which makes building models such as this such an interesting pursuit. The never ending engineering by the "that's good enough" principle. cheers, Graham 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted September 27, 2022 Author Share Posted September 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said: The never ending engineering by the "that's good enough" principle. Which is also the principle behind most of my model building! 😆 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArnoldAmbrose Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 40 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said: 48 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said: The never ending engineering by the "that's good enough" principle. Which is also the principle behind most of my model building! Gidday, and not only yours. Some of my time in the naval reserve here many years ago was spent chasing Indonesian Trocus shell poachers off the Kimberley coast. And I've seen some of their confiscated boats in Broome. I wouldn't take some of these boats across the Swan River, let alone the Timor Sea. A couple in particular I remember. Their engines were obviously an 'addition', which made them illegal straight away. A hole punched through the stern for the shaft. The screw was too big to fit under the transom keel - no problem, a bit of adjustment to said keel with an axe. And one had it's screw tied onto the shaft with rope. By comparison, the engineering of SS Xantho was Star Trek quality. Oh and by the way, 6 feet is 1.83m, not 1.83cm. You gave me a fright with your figures, trying to make a 1/100 screw less than 2mm diameter. The blades would have been about 0.5mm wide and 0.75mm long. 😲 Quite a challenge. Going by McCarthy's figure 1 the screw was right-turning, and you're looking at 18mm diameter. Are you going to make one? Regards, Jeff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Hmmm … Prop sticking out of the water … That’ll do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted September 27, 2022 Author Share Posted September 27, 2022 Hi @ArnoldAmbrose That’s a good point you make about the somewhat variable quality of small sea-going vessels, even in the modern era. It make’s me even more comfortable with the idea of a mis-sized prop. 👍 As for the 1.83cm; that’s a six foot propellor as represented in 1/100 scale. Not the actual size of the propellor itself. Am I going to make one? Not sure. I’m certainly going to need one. So I’ll either make it by hand somehow, buy one or 3D print. Time will tell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArnoldAmbrose Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: As for the 1.83cm; that’s a six foot propellor as represented in 1/100 scale. Not the actual size of the propellor itself. Ah, that makes sense then, sorry about me getting confused. Regarding making one I found that they're not that difficult. And the beauty of your model here is that you don't have to make a matching set. Regards, Jeff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitriy1967 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Steve, I haven't seen this topic before and today I read it from the very beginning as a fascinating research novel! I wish you good luck in such a difficult task as creating the first model of this interesting ship! I join the people who follow your work with interest. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 Catching up - Part 2 I'm still making pretty good progress on this project but must admit that I'm failing somewhat in my promise to keep this thread up to date, mostly because I'm really enjoying my time in the shed at the moment and am sinking any spare time into building Xantho rather than updating this narrative. Sorry about that folks. Anyway - this should be quick. There's nothing fancy to write about here, its all fairly straightforward stuff. The main thing to note is that there is no way that I'm brave enough to try to 'plank on frame' this hull and besides, since Xantho was made of iron, there's absolutely no requirement anyway. Here's where we were at the end of the last construction post. I spent some money on a balsa plank (it's not cheap) and have started filling in the gaps between the paulonia skeleton. It's a pretty simple process and being so soft the balsa just squeezes into place and sits there with a nice friction fit. The blue goo is not really doing much in reality. I used to shun balsa, but now I'm finding more and more uses for the stuff. Any surplus balsa gets trimmed off and re-used. Like I say, it's expensive. Whittle any surplus off. More whittling - this time around the bow. Use the pre-cut decking (and of course the skeleton itself) to ensure that the balsa is whittled back close to the correct profile. Use a scoop chisel to get into some of the trickier bits where the shape is changing quickly. Trim any excessively high bits off the top of the decks. Use a rasp to start working toward the final profile. At this point I realized that I should have painted the outside edges of the skeletal frame red so as to be sure that I was not rasping away any of the basic structural frame. I will know for next time. Very coarse sandpaper - about 120 grit - can also be used to shape balsa quite effectively. And here is the hull that results. As you can see nothing much has been done with the bow or the stern yet. That can be the next post. Stay safe and best regards, Bandsaw Steve 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Good progress Steve although I think that Stanley blade has seen better days... Stuart 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 Yes it has. My old shed used to leak a lot and tended to be a little dank so some of my older tools started to get a bit of surface discolouration. Then they spent six months on the patio under a tarpaulin while the new shed was built. Several of them came out looking much worse. I’m slowly going through the collection and repairing or replacing as required. New Stanley blades just jumped to the top of the list. 😀 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 Catching Up - Part 3. A messy bit. I've just been through a stage in this build where everything has been a bit messy. Some modelers seem to be able avoid making a mess when building but I've never been able to. I work on the principle that you can make as much mess as you like / need to make as long as you can tidy it up at some stage before the model is finished. Consequently, my projects tend to have a few 'messy bits' in them. This is such a 'bit'. Firstly the work on the bow was very ugly. These are some blocks of - otherwise absolutely beautiful - bass wood stuck on in a most unattractive hodge-podge waiting to be carved and sanded to something resembling the correct shape. For example, after some very rough handling, I had this. Which demanded a tonne of bog-filler to cover the gaps and holes and so-forth. Then I moved to the stern where I glued on the quarter-deck, before… Hacking away at the stern area and gluing on some strategically placed brass sheet to try to preserve some of the sharp angles in the counter. And then beefing up the relevant bits and pieces with more blocks of Paulownia wood. And then hacking them into shape with chisels, files and sanding paper. Not content with that amount of mess I sprayed the whole thing (except the decks) with another coat of high-build automotive primer paint, inspected the result then filled the many large imperfections with 'multifill wood-filler' (basically plastic wood), and sanded, sanded, sanded to make this mess. After another couple of prime, inspect, fill, sand sequences I got right down to this... Which is still looking pretty messy. After yet another coat of primer I felt that the hull was smooth enough to change to 'Vallejo' putty and then proceeded to make… yet another mess. Which after a more thorough clean up, and yet another layer of primer, left this... Actually I lie! Now that I look at this photo I notice that there's still some quite rough spots here and there so this particular photo was taken prior to the final sanding. The actual thing looks quite a bit smoother than this I promise. Anyway, in reality it is starting to look a little bit less like a complete mess and more like a proper little ship. I promise that the next post will send us back deep in the direction of 'mess'. Till then, Stay safe. Bandsaw Steve! 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKrypton Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Really starting to look the part. A truly multimedia build using a composite of materials nicely done. cheers, Graham 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL67 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Really enjoying your build Steve..looking forward to more updates.. Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArnoldAmbrose Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Gidday Steve, she's shaping up very nicely, I love the curves under the counter. Your new shed must be knee deep in wood shavings and sawdust now. I know it's still six months off but at next WASMEx you and I need to have a serious talk (Well I need anyway 🙂) on hull construction. I have a few in mind, all 1/600 scale but of various sizes. Your method here could be very suitable for some of the larger hulls I want to do. As I said, this is coming along very well. Regards, Jeff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Very good work Mr Bandsaw. The idea of using the brass sheet was a good one. One thing I am not sure about though: 18 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: I've just been through a stage in this build where everything has been a bit messy. Some modelers seem to be able avoid making a mess when building but I've never been able to. I work on the principle that you can make as much mess as you like / need to make as long as you can tidy it up at some stage before the model is finished. What do you mean tidy the workbench BEFORE the model is finished? That is a new one on me... 'Cos I only tend to find the bits I am looking for if the bench is untidy Ray, who may have to have a rethink 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 Actually I try my best to keep the workbench clean as I work but - unlike some weirdos - it does not come naturally to me. The mess in this case is mostly the model itself. Some folks seem to manage to keep their projects looking ‘precise and crisp and engineered’ thoughout the build. I almost always end up with a stage where the model looks like it’s a cultivated fungus. Without bulk fillers and sanding and yet more fillers and sanding I doubt I would ever finish anything . 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKrypton Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: Actually I try my best to keep the workbench clean as I work but - unlike some weirdos - it does not come naturally to me. I've been called many things but weirdo was never one of them I do like to keep my workspace organized and clean both terms being relative. Seems the first thing I do whenever I go to the workshop is to start by tidying and cleaning rather than just getting to work on my project. Sometimes the cleaning and tidying take over completely and I never get to building that day. So easily distracted; so many shiny objects, so many rabbits and squirrels to chase - oh look, there goes a rabbit now ........ cheers, Graham 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 57 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said: So easily distracted; so many shiny objects, so many rabbits and squirrels to chase - oh look, there goes a rabbit now ........ cheers, Graham Like I say… ‘Weirdo!’ 🤣 (just kidding of course!) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Very much enjoying the mixture of industrial archaeology and craftsmanship here Steve, both aspects providing a fascinating narrative. Pray continue.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgizlu Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Steve - that has come out very nicely Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share Posted November 6, 2022 Bulwarks Sorry Xantho fans, this thread has gone a bit quiet for a while. This is mostly because I'm working on a computer full time at the moment so when I get home I generally don't want to face another one to update this thread. No excuse really but there you go! At the end of the last substantive post in this thread we were up to here; a basic hull-shape formed and the first load of priming and sanding back completed. Now I have to fit the fit the bulwarks to make a continuous curved sheer from the stern to the bow. The first thing to do is mark up and cut a rebate. If I'd been smart I probably could have built the hull with a rebate in it but in this case I did not plan ahead enough. The pencil line shows where the rebate will be cut. It's really easy to cut out the unwanted balsa but the Paulonia 'skeleton' needed a chisel and a bit more effort. Still, it was not difficult to achieve this much. To make the bulwarks form a single gentle sheer the easiest way is to cut several 'easing' saw cuts into the selected piece of plywood so that it can bend easily. (Sorry about the photo below, it's not well focused so it's tricky to see the small cuts.) What you can see though, is that now it's very easy to bend the plywood since the continuous line of wood is now only about 1cm wide. This view shows the cuts more clearly. Here the bulwarks are firmly glued onto the side of the hull adjacent to the poop deck ready to be bent up into their final position... like this. This clamp really struggled to grip onto the bulwarks because clamps find it hard to grip onto pointed curved surfaces as found at the bow of this ship; they keep trying to slip off the bow. If I was doing this again I think I would make some sort of special jig or vice arrangement. After the struggle to hold everything in place while the glue set, once again I smothered the structure in automotive bog filler. By the time this is finished I swear this model will be more filler than wood. And here is where we are up to at this point. Shockingly I still have not fully worked out how I'm going to make the bow. The two black 'planks' on the front of the ship are carbon-fibre strips that I was planning to use as very strong knight-heads on which to construct the rest of the bow but I’ve subsequently given up on that idea. At this stage it looks like constructing the bow is going to be the most challenging part of this entire project. To be honest, I'm not sure what's going to happen there. So far I've done nothing to make that job easier for myself. Oh well - this is how we learn. In the meantime, the bulkwarks are on and the ship has a nice curved sheer. Best Regards, Bandsaw Steve 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share Posted November 6, 2022 Shipwreck Hunters By the way, for those of you with an interest in maritime archeology and/or any interest whatsoever in Western Australia you should make the effort to watch the recently released documentary 'Shipwreck Hunters'. This is a documentary / adventure TV series about a group of highly experienced commercial divers who team up with the W.A Maritime museum to hunt down lost shipwrecks off the coast of Western Australia. In addition to spectacular diving, maritime and wildlife footage there is a lot of film taken in and around some of my regular haunts in Fremantle and also some great historical material. It also goes to great lengths to describe and demonstrate the hazards to shipping that make the W.A. coastline so notorious. Do not be deterred by the fact that this is a 'Disney Plus' release; yes it's a popular documentary but I think it does a great job of making the story of each shipwreck absorbing and interesting without 'dumbing things down' too much. My 17 year-old daughter, who has never shown an atom of interest in any of this kind of subject matter, is now hooked on the show, itching to get her scuba diving ticket and asking me when I am going to start building a model of the SS Koombana! As an additional point of interest, each episode features a model of the subject in question. These models were all scratchbuilt here in Perth, by a good friend of mine and master maritime modeller - Gerry Westernberg. Unfortunately they don't do anything on Xantho, after all, we know exactly where Xantho is, so there's no point in hunting for it! 🙂 Bandsaw Steve 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman 29 Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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