Bandsaw Steve Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 Excellent! 👍 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted July 6, 2021 Author Share Posted July 6, 2021 23 hours ago, Dave Swindell said: If you've still got access to Waine Coastal Steamers check out:- Stockton in the Preface p5 Bridges of Collier P46, Tanfield p53, Velinheli p60b, Edith p63a Focsle on Shotton p71 Deckhouse between holds on SS Wans Fell 73b and in McCluskie's Harland & Wolff book:- Midships on Castilian & Catalonian Focsle on Celtic Focsle and poop on Thurland Castle, Steelfield; Slieve More, Bawn & Roe; Star of Italy & France; British Queen & King; Arabic & Coptic; Winnebah & Akassa; & Lord Downshire OK, have just checked out all of those and can see just how common this rolled-edge was. I think the stern of ‘Stockton’ on page 5 of Waine’s ‘Steam Coasters’ is especially close to what I need. Thanks again Dave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 Another trip to Albany A few weeks back I took some leave from work and headed off on holiday with the wife and kids for a week or so. At the moment here in Australia it's a pretty big deal to cross state borders, so we decided to stay within Western Australia and headed South-East to Esperance. The most exciting thing that has ever happened in Esperance is that bits of Skylab crashed somewhere near it back in 1979. Nothing much has happened since, however the local council has decided to put some great old photographs up on the windbreaks around the town and this one in particular caught my eye. This is a rather inspiring shot of 'Rob Roy' which is Western Australia's third steam ship and the first to achieve any reputation as a success. If memory serves she arrived here in the middle of the 1870s and kept going for over a decade. Here's a close up of the bridge which gives a great view of the wheel and a couple of the lifeboats. If I'm not mistaken we can also see a rolled deck edge on the forecastle along with a bunch of other enticing stuff. This however was just a foretaste. After a few days in Esperance - yes a few days is long enough - it was time to head to Albany and catch up with Ross Shardlow, Albany's leading maritime historian and artist. I proudly showed Ross my newfound evidence and the revised base drawings of the hull and funnel that I was proposing to use for the build... Ross was very polite but said that he thought he could see one or two things that perhaps could be improved.... 'I think I might have a look at the stern' he said. And so it began, a really great day and half's full of drawing and discussing and re-drawing and researching and re-drawing and discussing and researching and re-drawing. Some red wine was consumed and so too were some more of those cheese scones we enjoyed so much last time. Here's just a fraction of the stuff that we unearthed from Ross's library. A local Fremantle newspaper article regarding the Engine restoration... Another newspaper article explaining exactly where the scotch boiler that's on display in the Xantho gallery actually came from. This is the one that I originally thought was lifted from the wreck but no; that one remains on the sea-floor. Photos of ships of broadly similar appearance - likely analogs to Xantho- although this one is still a paddler and was built a warship, as was this one... Photos from old model-building magazines, how's this for inspiration? And schematic drawings - lots and lots of schematic drawings. This one is from Page 52 of 'Steam Coasters' by CV Waine'. it's of the SS St Seriol and seems to be from around the same period as Xantho. Importantly it shows how at least on this occasion, the mizzen mast was stepped onto the rear bulkhead just behind the engine room. it also shows just how little space was sometimes left between the front of the boiler and the main waterproof bulkhead. No doubt a bad practice from the point of view of inspecting the boiler, but the recorded dimensions of Xantho's engine room and the layout of the remains on the seafloor strongly suggest that she too must have been a very tight fit. Drawings like this from 'The Denny List'. This one suggested that I had too much sheer in my interpretation. Eventually we came up with something that looked like this. I declared myself happy and ready to start bashing together the hull once I got back to Perth. An enigmatic, concerned shadow passed over Ross's face... 'Hmmmmm... OK... ' he said, Off I went, back to Perth, back to the 'real world' of work and mortgages and so forth while Ross retired to his study... Stay tuned steamship fans, Bandsaw Steve 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kay Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 I love how this project is unfolding. That tickled me. I know what they meant, but my off-kilter sense of humour made something else out of it. How does one go about displaying one's guano collection? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 Spoiler Alert! 🚨 At some point in the future I’m going to write about the Broadhurst family fortunes ‘post Xantho’ and it turns out there’s gold in that thar guano! (Or if not actual gold, at least a hell of a lot of money) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArnoldAmbrose Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Gidday Steve, welcome back. It's good to see this back on the go again. Regards, Jeff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Heather Kay said: How does one go about displaying one's guano collection? On a very large rock? So should we expect more alterations very soon? I love the amount of research you're putting into this, even though you know someone will come up with something to prove you wrong just days after you finish it! Ian Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc2 Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 This is really great, following with interest as you chase the trail of available evidence to piece it all together. Looking forward to seeing the next iteration of model to come from the latest drawings. Malc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Brandy said: So should we expect more alterations very soon? I love the amount of research you're putting into this, even though you know someone will come up with something to prove you wrong just days after you finish it! Ian Your crystal ball is working very well these days Ian. 🔮 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 11, 2021 Author Share Posted August 11, 2021 An E-mail from Albany About a week after returning home from Albany I was delighted to receive the following e-mail from Ross. Good afternoon Steve, After you left here the other day I could not get the Xantho out of my head. Accordingly, I thought I would have a go at working it out myself. Using the same information you have (from the Museum) I came up with a general arrangement drawing (attached) using the same “measure in feet and tenths of a foot” as used in the original measure. I set about drawing up the Xantho as a paddle steamer and then converted her to a screw steamer. I concluded The Denny List figures have been transcribed in such a way as to be misleading, resulting in a misinterpretation of builders’ measure to mean that the vessel was 101.4 feet in length between perpendiculars (101.3 feet on the estimates schedule) as built in 1848. In fact, her registered length as given in The Denny List (keel and forerake) is 112.8 feet. Her length only appeared to be extended to 116.3 feet (1871 Glasgow Register) after the implementation of the 1854 rule when the measuring points between perpendiculars were changed; that is to say, Xantho’s hull had not been lengthened. I will keep you informed if there are any further developments; otherwise, please find attached my 'draft of a draught' of a vessel reconstructed from the available measurements of the S.S. Xantho. Please feel free to use these if you wish. Cheers, Ross Suffice to say I am absolutely blown away by these drawings and by the research progress Ross has made. As you can see, even though Ross considers these a 'rough draft' they are far, far more convincing than anything that I have managed to scribble up and I am extremely grateful to Ross for his most generous and entirely voluntary efforts on this set of drawings. As indicated in his text it turns out that Xantho was never lengthened by 'roughly 3 m' at all. Now I'm not sure that I’m fully across the whole argument but I understand it goes something like this: The original published length of the ship (101.4) feet was a length relevant to the builders and not anything to do with the registration length of the vessel. The original registration length of the ship was determined under 'pre-1854 rules'. To my knowledge we don't have this value, but it could now be worked out within a very tight tolerance. In 1854 the legal rules regarding the definition of a ship's registered length changed. This change would have been very important since length was used in the determination of commercial tonnage and hence taxation rates. Under the new rules the forward point of measurement was no-longer the cut water but a position directly under the point where the forerake terminates against the figurehead. On paper this change would have lengthened Xantho by about 6 feet. When the ship was converted from a paddler to a screw steamer the rudder post was moved back about 3 feet to accommodate the propeller. This was important because the rudder-post was used as the rear refence point for determining the length of the ship. Anyway, the upshot of all this is that Xantho was never physically lengthened, but on paper it appears to have been extended by 9 feet - which is 'about 3 metres'. This interpretation of events makes a lot a sense. After all, why would a Glasgow Metal Merchant buy a beaten up old paddle-steamer and undergo the major job of extending it by 3m when obviously the much simpler thing to do is to stick a new boiler in, stick an ex Royal Navy engine in convert it to a screw steamer and flog it off? It also means that we don't need to try to interpret where a 3m plug in the middle of the hull should go - we can now just interperet the shape of a P.S. hull and leave it at that. Right now I am very amped up about this project! Bandsaw Steve 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc2 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 The last post (which I seem to have missed until now!) sounds totaly plausible to me. Any updates? Malc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 On 25/06/2022 at 04:37, Malc2 said: The last post (which I seem to have missed until now!) sounds totaly plausible to me. Any updates? Malc. Sorry about the delay to reply. Yes. Some more progress made. Although my main focus at the moment is to finish my PZH 2000 you should expect another Xantho post within the next week or so. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roginoz Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Great to see this thread back again. Can't believe I missed its resumption back in July 21, but nice to have a quiet catch up. Some intriguing detective work going on here, fascinating and interesting stuff ! Rog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWS Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 13 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: ... you should expect another Xantho post in within the next week or so. ... John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 Finalized Plans Hello Xantho Fans This is a very important post because this marks the finalization of plans for this model. As you may have noticed almost a year has passed since the last substantial post on this project. There was a good reason for this delay; principally that there was a suggestion from a third party (in no-way related to Britmodeller BTW) that a set of plans for Xantho did in-fact exist but had been incorrectly labelled and catalogued in a certain collection of plans. This claim has been investigated and we (Ross and I) have now discounted it on the basis that hull from the alternative set of plans is listed as built from wood not iron and hence could not have been the Xantho. So, having investigated that particular line of enquiry I have decided to revert to building the Shadlow 2021 interpretation. Importantly - that's all that this model will be - a model of a particular person's / team’s interpretation of information available at a particular time. If more information ever comes to light then that's fine. If someone else has another view - then that is also fine. Here are the profile and plan views that I will be building (you have seen these before). In order to assist me with accurately reading these plans and in order to generate a 3D view of the hull form I have drawn up the following. The profile view is a centerline section derived from these drawings that clarifies one or two uncertainties in my reading of the plans above. The plan view below includes 'the' interpreted waterline. And here are sectional views of the frames that I have drawn up based on the plan and waterline views on a best guess basis. These are very similar to the sectional views that I used to make the maquette on pages 7 and 8 of this thread, except I have put a small amount of 'rise' either side of the keel so that the bottom of the ship is no longer dead flat. (BTW don't worry if the frames don't look exactly symmetrical in these drawings as these are photographs and not scans, and the camera is not dead square to the paper.) Hmmmm, these ones look a bit smudgy... Might have to tidy these up a bit. Anyway - that's the bulk of the research done and the basic plans finalized (at least for this interpretation). Despite the fact that the final drawings are mostly derived from Ross's expert pen I really want to thank everyone who has contributed any thoughts or information on this thread. The ideas and discussions in here and the interest shown have kept me going on what has proven to be a rather long-winded research journey. I would especially like to acknowledge @Dave Swindell who's very incisive points have informed many of the discussions that I've had with Ross and have gone a long way toward helping me trick Ross into thinking that I actually know something about this subject. 🙂 So - now to phase two. For better or worse I'm going to build this thing as shown above. But don't expect lightning fast progress. Right now my model building priority is to finish the PZH 2000 that you can see documented on the armour pages, once that is done this project will get some serious attention. Best Regards, Bandsaw Steve. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 I think that you have done the right things - plenty of investigation, taken advice from different parties, and drawn your own conclusion. I am looking forward to seeing the build take place as and when you get around to doing it! This has been a very interesting subject, and Xantho looks quite a characterful ship. All the best with the project, Ray 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArnoldAmbrose Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Gidday Steve, I think your research has been very extensive, I don't think anyone could have done more. In maritime parlance, I'm looking forward to seeing the keel laid, so to speak. Regards, Jeff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Hi Steve, good to see you've settled on a final general arrangement that you're happy to build from, it's unlikely we'll ever know exactly what she looked like and you have to draw a line somewhere (well, Ross has 😉 ) Looking forward to seeing this progress and glad I could help out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogged Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) I think once this ship is finally finished it would be great to see it on display at the WA maritime museum, at home with the remnants of the original ship! Edited July 10, 2022 by Clogged Missed the 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWS Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Dave Swindell said: ... you have to draw a line somewhere ... Very thorough detective work Steve. Glad you've been able to draw that line & you're confident enough in the design to start the build. Looking forward to following along. John 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Great investigative work by everyone. Now get that Pzh 2000 done and get cracking on this . Stuart 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Courageous said: Great investigative work by everyone. Now get that Pzh 2000 done and get cracking on this . Stuart Yessir! 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertie McBoatface Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 On 7/10/2022 at 10:40 AM, Clogged said: I think once this ship is finally finished it would be great to see it It would be rather spiffing to see it finally started, old boy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted July 14, 2022 Author Share Posted July 14, 2022 20 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said: It would be rather spiffing to see it finally started, old boy! Touché 🤣 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG X Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Steve I've just spent a very enlightening hour - trawling through the thread - great research & great work too. Now following, Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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