AltcarBoB Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I need to model the red patches the RAF applied over gun barrels to keep freezing air out of the gun mechanism. I have tried gluing thin writing paper using thinned down PVA glue and then painting with thinned red paint but it frankly looks horrible and out of scale, so need some materials advice. As far as I can find the patches were self adhesive, 8" x 8", came on a roll and were coloured red to show a gun was loaded and ready to fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, AltcarBoB said: As far as I can find the patches were self adhesive, 8" x 8", came on a roll and were coloured red to show a gun was loaded and ready to fire. sometimes. There were patches on a roll, there is film of rearming a Spitfire showing this, here the thread, having a re-read, covers a lot, including a lot of what I post below. but there was also just fabric doped on with different colour paint before the patches were standardised Quote I think that doped patches were used initially, bear in mind the RAF was noted for lack of gunnery training, and in the pre and phoney war era you get very neatly doped on patches in camo colours, as they didn't get blasted off on a regular basis (I'm thinking Hurricanes here) I guess red came about as red oxide was a common fabric primers, and it has advantage of a fast check of 'guns loaded' Other colours have been noted for patches as well.(so doped on?) Given the faff of doing the doped on patches (and getting the remains off) , some must have had the idea of using tape, and then this became the standard, as can be seen in the film it is an neat and effective solution, though when this 'standard' came in is "the question" other colours, Spitfire Vb...............SAAF by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr Spitfire boneyard. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr This shows the red patches well Spitfire Mk. IIA, 1941. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr 18 minutes ago, AltcarBoB said: I need to model the red patches the RAF applied over gun barrels to keep freezing air out of the gun mechanism. I have tried gluing thin writing paper using thinned down PVA glue and then painting with thinned red paint but it frankly looks horrible and out of scale, so need some materials advice. This has been discussed before. One suggestion for patches is to use very thin cigarette papers, eg Rizla Silver. scrap decal film can also be used. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 My best results (1/72) have been to use red decal stock cut into the appropriate size and applied over the gunports with plenty of decal solvent so that you can see the outline of the gun port. If you want to model the aircraft with the patches fired through, then you just need to pierce the decal patches, I did this for a Hasegawa 1/72 Birdcage Corsair in FAA colors, and they looked really good! Another alternative is to buy a roll of automotive pinstriping tape or tape used in drafting, which come in very small widths and you can get the tape in various colors. Get the width you need in the scale you are building, cut to size, and apply over the gunports- this tape works very well for simulating fresh patches that have not been fired through. Mike 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orso Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Cigarette paper? It is thinner than writing paper. I used it for tarp on my Ford T: https://baecklund.eu/scalemodels/72/ford-t.html This method is an other idea: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/make-tarps-with-paint-t322538.html But I guess that decal film as mentioned earlier would be the thinnest material for this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltcarBoB Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 Looks like I will have to go into a shop selling tobacco goods. Oh the shame I will have to buy some hardcore pornography at the same time to hide the cigarette papers inside just in case someone sees me. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLC1966 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Decal film, centre circle Red from spare RAF WWII roundels. Job Jobbed 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltcarBoB Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 No spare roundels that are big enough I am afraid. I do have some Dutch orange wing markings spare I will experiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Hmmm........... Red Roo gun barrel patches? Should we? - - - - - - - - @AltcarBoB just paint over any sort of spare decal with red and use lots of decal solvent. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 A very timely question, as I am coming to the point where I need to think about how to cover the gun ports on a 1/72nd scale Beaufighter TF.X. I have quite a swath of red decal sheet set aside. I'll be interested to see how it works out. Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Beema Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 The Fleet Air Arm would patch over the ejector chutes of Hellcats and Corsairs too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wm Blecky Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 What about using bare metal foil? or even the metal foil that some better quality chocolates use to wrap their product in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, Wm Blecky said: What about using bare metal foil? or even the metal foil that some better quality chocolates use to wrap their product in? I would think that would work well, as it has adhesive on the backside and can be burnished over the gunport to pick up the opening. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Ciggie paper or decal film for me. They both work well although since I stopped smoking it only seems to be decal film now. If you're going the decal film route just be aware that the thick film that Tamiya and Academy use for example can tend to be an absolute nightmare to get to bed down and especially in 1/72 where the gun patches are rather small. I've done it once but had to use PVA glue mixed with water to get them to stick down and even then it involved enough swearing to make a sailor blush. Best to stick to those companies whose decal film tends to go on easily without a fight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 10 hours ago, Ed Russell said: Hmmm........... Red Roo gun barrel patches? Should we? - - - - - - - - We actually have better things to spend effort on (:>) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Tamiya type tape, coloured with a red marker pen, cut to size, stuck on and burnished down. Varnish over, an option 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Grey Beema said: The Fleet Air Arm would patch over the ejector chutes of Hellcats and Corsairs too. Yep, they sure did! Good call! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltcarBoB Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 What did they use to patch the case chutes. It can't have been the same sticky fabric tape used on the muzzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Beema Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I’m not sure, I assumed the same stuff but don’t know how easily the cartridge would fall through.. Corsair, light coloured patch across the chutes. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205159467 Hellcat with dark coloured patch across chute https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205184976 I going to see if there are any Seafire images patched in a similar way.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, AltcarBoB said: What did they use to patch the case chutes. paper IIRC. empty cases will drop through it. RCAF Spitfire Mk V, 1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr 34 minutes ago, Grey Beema said: Corsair, light coloured patch across the chutes. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205159467 Hellcat with dark coloured patch across chute https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205184976 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBayKid Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I truly wish the whole “doped” thing would die a painful death. The real things were red coloured self-adhesive material. Basically the WWII equivalent of red duct tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, NorthBayKid said: I truly wish the whole “doped” thing would die a painful death. The real things were red coloured self-adhesive material. Basically the WWII equivalent of red duct tape. You sure? Got proof? Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 hours ago, NorthBayKid said: I truly wish the whole “doped” thing would die a painful death. The real things were red coloured self-adhesive material. Basically the WWII equivalent of red duct tape. the self adhesive were standard in the UK, from some point in 1941, as shown in the linked thread of Spitfire rearming film. Did you even read the linked thread? But there are exceptions, like the two colour shots of desert Spitfires with different blues. pre the start of lots of shooting, and even in some cases after, they were often doped to match, for example P3166/VY-Q, July 1940 85 Squadron 50 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr or had small doped on patches VY-H 85 Squadron 56 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr both photos taken at the same time. P3166 was the CO's plane though. or the patch here over the 0.303 sighting gun is red? These are just some that sprang to mind, searching would turn up more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltcarBoB Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 17 hours ago, Troy Smith said: Bloody postman it said Fragile Do Not Bend and he still folded it and rammed it through the letterbox 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Properjob56 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 The new Airfix 1/72 Spitfire I kits have them on the decal sheet. They are tiny. It's not helped as the gun openings on the Spit, as modelled by Airfix, are on the tip of the curve of the leading edge. To get decals that tiny to conform to that tight a curve in that scale requires them to do a lot of heavy lifting. I gave up despite using a lot of decal solvent and got out the marker pen sacrificing crispness for having at least a representation of the patches that could be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 12 hours ago, NorthBayKid said: I truly wish the whole “doped” thing would die a painful death. The real things were red coloured self-adhesive material. Basically the WWII equivalent of red duct tape. Some were. Some weren't. For example, these clearly were doped 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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