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Red patches over gun barrel openings in 1/72 scale


AltcarBoB

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I need to model the red patches the RAF applied over gun barrels to keep freezing air out of the gun mechanism. I have tried gluing thin writing paper using thinned down PVA glue and then painting with thinned red paint but it frankly looks horrible and out of scale, so need some materials advice.

 

As far as I can find the patches were self adhesive, 8" x 8", came on a roll and were coloured red to show a gun was loaded and ready to fire.

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15 minutes ago, AltcarBoB said:

As far as I can find the patches were self adhesive, 8" x 8", came on a roll and were coloured red to show a gun was loaded and ready to fire.

sometimes. 

There were patches on a roll, there is film of rearming a Spitfire showing this,  here

the thread, having a re-read, covers a lot, including a lot of what I post below.

 

but there was also just fabric doped on with different colour paint before the patches were standardised

Quote

I think that doped patches were used initially,  bear in mind the RAF was noted for lack of gunnery training,  and in the pre and phoney war era you get very neatly doped on patches in camo colours, as they didn't get blasted  off on a regular basis (I'm thinking Hurricanes here) 

 

I guess red came about as red oxide was a common fabric primers, and it has advantage of a fast check of 'guns loaded' 

Other colours have been noted for patches as well.(so doped on?) 

 

Given the faff of doing the doped on patches (and getting the remains off) , some must have had the idea of using tape, and then this became the standard,  as can be seen in the film it is an neat and effective solution, though when this 'standard' came in is "the question" 

other colours, 

 

2527331399_92e2a7697a_o.jpgSpitfire Vb...............SAAF by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

4674411354_639b017b2f_o.jpgSpitfire boneyard. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

This shows the red patches well

16804377395_8b7c604c60_o.jpgSpitfire Mk. IIA, 1941. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

18 minutes ago, AltcarBoB said:

I need to model the red patches the RAF applied over gun barrels to keep freezing air out of the gun mechanism. I have tried gluing thin writing paper using thinned down PVA glue and then painting with thinned red paint but it frankly looks horrible and out of scale, so need some materials advice.

This has been discussed before.  One suggestion for patches is to use very thin cigarette papers, eg Rizla Silver.  

scrap decal film can also be used.

 

 

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My best results (1/72) have been to use red decal stock cut into the appropriate size and applied over the gunports with plenty of decal solvent so that you can see the outline of the gun port. If you want to model the aircraft with the patches fired through, then you just need to pierce  the decal patches, I did this for a Hasegawa 1/72 Birdcage Corsair in FAA colors, and they looked really good! Another alternative is to buy a roll of automotive pinstriping tape or tape used in drafting, which come in very small widths and you can get the tape in various colors. Get the width you need in the scale you are building, cut to size, and apply over the gunports- this tape works very well for simulating fresh patches that have not been fired through.

Mike

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Cigarette paper? It is thinner than writing paper. I used it for tarp on my Ford T: https://baecklund.eu/scalemodels/72/ford-t.html

This method is an other idea: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/make-tarps-with-paint-t322538.html

But I guess that decal film as mentioned earlier would be the thinnest material for this.

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Looks like I will have to go into a shop selling tobacco goods. Oh the shame I will have to buy some hardcore pornography at the same time to hide the cigarette papers inside just in case someone sees me.

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A very timely question, as I am coming to the point where I need to think about how to cover the gun ports on a 1/72nd scale Beaufighter TF.X. I have quite a swath of red decal sheet set aside. I'll be interested to see how it works out.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

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14 minutes ago, Wm Blecky said:

What about using bare metal foil? or even the metal foil that some better quality chocolates use to wrap their product in?

I would think that would work well, as it has adhesive on the backside and can be burnished over the gunport to pick up the opening.

Mike

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Ciggie paper or decal film for me. They both work well although since I stopped smoking it only seems to be decal film now.

 

If you're going the decal film route just be aware that the thick film that Tamiya and Academy use for example can tend to be an absolute nightmare to get to bed down and especially in 1/72 where the gun patches are rather small. I've done it once but had to use PVA glue mixed with water to get them to stick down and even then it involved enough swearing to make a sailor blush. Best to stick to those companies whose decal film tends to go on easily without a fight.

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I’m not sure, I assumed the same stuff but don’t know how easily the cartridge would fall through..

 

Corsair, light coloured patch across the chutes.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205159467

 

 

Hellcat with dark coloured patch across chute

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205184976

 

I going to see if there are any Seafire images patched in a similar way..

 

 

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1 hour ago, AltcarBoB said:

What did they use to patch the case chutes.

paper IIRC. empty cases will drop through it.

15225937513_9e17827001_h.jpgRCAF Spitfire Mk V,  1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

34 minutes ago, Grey Beema said:

Corsair, light coloured patch across the chutes.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205159467

 

 

Hellcat with dark coloured patch across chute

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205184976

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, NorthBayKid said:

I truly wish the whole “doped” thing would die a painful death.  The real things were red coloured self-adhesive material.  Basically the WWII equivalent of red duct tape.

 

You sure? Got proof?

 

 

 

Chris

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8 hours ago, NorthBayKid said:

I truly wish the whole “doped” thing would die a painful death.  The real things were red coloured self-adhesive material.  Basically the WWII equivalent of red duct tape.

 

the self adhesive were standard in the UK, from some point in 1941,  as shown in the linked thread of Spitfire rearming film. 

 

Did you even read the linked thread? 

 

But there are  exceptions,  like the two colour shots of desert Spitfires with different blues.  

 

pre the start of lots of shooting, and even in some cases after, they were often doped to match,  for example P3166/VY-Q, July 1940

 

47704896072_b40b327cb9_k.jpg85 Squadron 50 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr

 

or had small doped on patches

VY-H 

33880443268_49d519d723_k.jpg85 Squadron 56 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr

 

both photos taken at the same time.  P3166 was the CO's plane though.

 

or the patch here over the 0.303 sighting gun is red?

Hurricane-IId-RAF-164Sqn-FJM-KX413-and-F

 

These are just some that sprang to mind, searching would turn up more.

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The new Airfix 1/72 Spitfire I kits have them on the decal sheet. They are tiny. It's not helped as the gun openings on the Spit, as modelled by Airfix, are on the tip of the curve of the leading edge. To get decals that tiny to conform to that tight a curve in that scale requires them to do a lot of heavy lifting. I gave up despite using a lot of decal solvent and got out the marker pen sacrificing crispness for having at least a representation of the patches that could be seen.

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12 hours ago, NorthBayKid said:

I truly wish the whole “doped” thing would die a painful death.  The real things were red coloured self-adhesive material.  Basically the WWII equivalent of red duct tape.

Some were. Some weren't.

For example, these clearly were doped

xt5o2j7yerk31.png

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