The Mach 2 VC-10 - What Rough Beast

[Bangseat]

On 26/02/2020 at 20:03, Nocoolname said:

Not Mach 2 but I do have an Airwaves Vacu-form VC-10 that I was going to build as a British Airways bird. I had wondered whether the Mach 2 might be an easier build. Any thoughts folks?

I'd say it depends on your intention in terms of finishing. I find Mach 2 kits need heavy sanding and consequently a lot of filler primer and rescribing, you'll possibly spend less time on the finish of the vac. That said, there are other issues building a vacform. 

 

I don't own it, but from what have seen I'm not sure it has a better form particularly. Maybe they're neck and neck? Interestingly, the masters came up for sale on eBay recently, did anyone see?

 

 

[Kushan_Farsight]

On 2/29/2020 at 6:32 AM, Bangseat said:

Interestingly, the masters came up for sale on eBay recently, did anyone see?

That is interesting, any links to the sold item? id be intrigued to see what they went for and what it said about them.

[Dave Swindell]

2 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

any links to the sold item?

They didn't sell and have been relisted at the same price. They're asking a lot of money for what will produce a very niche market product.

[Bangseat]

The Rough Beast has been making progress, but definately at less than its customary Mach 0.84. 

 

What is fun about this build is that I trying to teach myself resin moulding at the same time, but that generally means doing everything at least 3 times before getting it right. The plan is coalescing around doing a clear resin part to replace the naughty kit part. I had a go at moulding from my master part a couple of weeks ago: 

I could tell from the moulding there were air bubbles in it but I had a crack anyway - now I know how to achieve the "warty" look. I also used far too much resin - and this stuff isnt much good for sanding.

 

I realised that air bubbles rise, so placing the master at the bottom of the mould would possibly play better. And indeed it did! 

This is in principal, just what I'm after. The clarity is extraordinary, and there are even cool diamond like reflections going on in certain lights. However, the windows are not right yet:

They should be taller towards the back. The other side is also a bit squint. I very much eyeballed it when I added the windows to the master, and I should have done it with the master in place. Speaking of which, this is pretty much how it should sit to resemble the right form:

So really this needs fixing:

I'm going to call it and say resin moulding (sort of) mastered, now to fix my master part and make another moulding that hopefully fits!

 

Cheers y'all!

Harry

 

 

 

[AdrianMF]

Lots of Dark Arts being mastered here! Following with interest.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[kev67]

Looking really good, I was tempted to buy the Mach 2 kit, but there are lots of other things wrong with not just the nose section, but saying that it can be made into a reasonable kit 

[Graeme H]

Wow, the trials and tribulations with just the nose is something to behold.  

keep up the good work, really interesting stuff going on.

[Bangseat]

Exciting times at Bangseat towers, as my 3D printed fuselage extensions arrived today! This is 'Fuse 1" between cockpit and wing:

 

And this is 'Fuse 2' (the plug aft of the wing):

 

 

The forms were designed to fit the slightly irregular contours of the Mach 2 kit, so they do have a few wobbly bits. Quite how helpful this will be when I join up the pieces will remain to be seen, filler, sandpaper and probably a bit of filing will still very much be required.

 

This is undiscovered country for me, all very new and intriguing. These are FDM printed, on their end so with minimal supports needed. They of course have very prominent layer lines:

 

I had a quick first go at sanding them. Its not as easy as normal styrene, but it does submit eventually:

 

 

Most of the lines do come off with sanding, however I notice some striations - more so in certain areas - are quite deep and will need a different approach:

 

 

I will have a go with Halfords filler primer next - a Mach 2 essential - and see if anything else will be required. I hope it doesn't come to trowelling on P38, but these lines have got to go!

 

Here are the parts all laid out - although I'm not assembling anything until the individual parts have been prepped:

 

 

As well as the FDM parts, the kit styrene is being tackled. The wings have gone together after being sanded back - all Mach 2 parts need a full job of finishing, with several grades of sandpaper, filler primer, polishing - its car bodywork, basically! Here's a wing with what I think is an air conditioning vent detailed in:

 

It needs lighter sanding and priming next. I find Mach 2 panel lines are quite resilient to this treatment and just need light rescribing afterwards.

 

The nose saga continues - I redid my master with revamped (slightly bigger and possible more symmetrical) windows, I forgot to photo the final item and it is now snug and warm under some curing silicone, but this was it at the half time whistle:

 

I think (hope) I readjusted that middle one! What happened after was several layers of perfect plastic putty, variously smoothed and sanded, and a couple of coats of filler primer. Then the masking tape on the surfaces of the styrene sheet windows was lifted, to reveal the smooth surface slightly recessed from the surrounding filler. Quite a delicate operation lifting the mask without damaging the surrounds, and of course hard to find the edges of the mask under all the filler, but it went OK. I should have a new nose plug in a few days. 

 

All the components are nearly assembled. Now a marathon of sanding (marathon des sables?) begins. Much as I love a proprietory sanding stick, for working in bulk like this I make my own from sandpaper PVA'd to neoprene rubber foam sheet. I can then cut it into a stick, a pad, I might even stick it to a pair a plimsoles and do the soft shoe shuffle over the larger surfaces:

 

 

With that I leave you. I must sand like the wind. There will be dust, car filler, rasping files, maybe some wattle and daub... But with the nation in lock down, no time like the present.

 

All best, Harry

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Bangseat

[AdrianMF]

Have to ask, why is it on a pie dish?

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Bangseat]

2 minutes ago, AdrianMF said:

Have to ask, why is it on a pie dish?

 

Regards,

Adrian

I use them for mixing p38. Another futile attempt at keeping the place tidy..

[Shorty84]

Wow, 3D printing and clear resin casting in one thread. Clear resin casting is a dark art indeed, many larger companies shy away from it as rejection rare is high. Well, couple this with a Mach 2 kit and one has a spectecular build.

Can't wait how this continues...

 

Cheers

Markus

[Bangseat]

Well, aside from some socially distanced dog walking (someone in a mask crossed the park to avoid me and the Bangdog yesterday) all my exercise recently has involved sanding the P38 filler off my 3d printed fuselage bits...

It does seem this is the surefirest way to obliterate the layer lines. Generally there is a first pass - which resembles a rendering technique a medieval housebuilder would recognise - and a second pass to fill in the gaps. It does work, I have to say. Dust and smells be damned!

 

However, while mating up my first fuselage part with the Mach 2 centre section, I came across this. No probs to port..

But starboard looks like this..

Cripes. It never occurred to me that the windows would be asymmetrical. What was that you said about dracones @Moa..?

 

So the only thing for it was to make up the difference with a cut and shut:

 

 

It seems to work... Any minor mismatching of profiles is less of an issue as a lot of reprofiling with files, filler and sandpaper will happen later. The fuselage is now 3 sections together, with just a small plug and the tail piece to go:

Work bench now resembling the Vickers space programme

 

And in other other news, I now have a cockpit piece:

 

So, although much sanding and glueing to go, it's all starting to feel like it's coming together. 

 

Happy Sunday all,

 

Harry

 

[Bangseat]

Well, a lot has happened in the past week. Both the dog and my VC10 are delighted with the extra attention they've been receiving and are feeling far from isolated. 

 

First up, I managed to stick the fuselage chunks together. They were aligned as best as could be window wise, although there were a few wobbles in the overall lines. In retrospect, I should have used as little of the original fuselage as possible, and my efforts to match the profiles of the kit plastic weren't really on the mark. Anyway, I added material to the sections where necessary - P38 and some plasticard strip - and after several rounds of filler and a lot of sanding, here she is in primer:

It really is a whopper as Jaguar attests to - about 680mm and that is without the extra length of the tail. 

There'll be more filler and fettling of course, but I may be off the P38 and on to the more genteel brands now. 

 

In between sanding sessions I have also been working on the wings and tail, adding vortex generators (just morsels of stretched sprue) and vent holes:

 

The undercarriage has also had attention. I have new resin printed wheels coming, but I decided to make new legs from scratch:

One obvious shortcoming of the kit gear, aside from being fairly crapulous, is that they present at right angles, while all the refs I see have the gear at a pleasantly backswept angle. My efforts aren't exactly a dead ringer for the real thing, but should at least be strong enough to support the weight of the thing.

 

I'd also like to show the horizontal stab, not because I've done any serious work, but just because it is a thing of elegance:

 

And finally, a glimpse (hopefully) of the future..

 

Night all.

[Bandsaw Steve]

That looks VC tastic! 👍👍👍

[Bangseat]

4 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

That looks VC tastic! 👍👍👍

Thanks Steve! 

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

Beautiful work, and nice progress!

[Shorty84]

The result speaks volumes about the efforts you had to put into it. With so many parts replaced/reworked I get the feeling that doing a whole 3D printed kit wouldn't be more effort than trying to make the Mach2 kit work.

 

Cheers

Markus

[Space Ranger]

3 hours ago, Bangseat said:

And finally, a glimpse (hopefully) of the future..

Oh, wow! I didn't know Braniff flew VC-10s!

 

[Bangseat]

8 hours ago, Shorty84 said:

 I get the feeling that doing a whole 3D printed kit wouldn't be more effort than trying to make the Mach2 kit work.

 

Cheers

Markus

Thanks Markus. I've had nights where I've felt the same! My take is the wings and tail are perfectly usable with good detail, and I'm glad I've not had to scratch build aerofoils. So a full CAD job would be a heck of a lot more work. But I do wish I'd done the whole fuselage...

[Bangseat]

6 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

Oh, wow! I didn't know Braniff flew VC-10s!

 

If only! That would have been a sales coup. 

[Vulcanicity]

This is a spectacular build - some serious audacity and skills on display. I shall be following henceforth!.

(It has also finally, absolutely convinced me that I should not buy this kit, for which my wallet and Ms Vulcanicity sincerely thank you).

[cathasatail]

Goodness me- Reading the title I was the under impression (for one short moment) that you were building a VC-10 that flew at twice the speed of sound 😁

 

You're making storming progress with this, what a huge beast!

Edited March 31, 2020 by cathasatail

[Robert]

12 hours ago, Bangseat said:

And finally, a glimpse (hopefully) of the future..

 

Night all.

 

That is pure elegance, great job.

 

Regards

Robert

[Bangseat]

Morning all,

 

I'm pleased to say the beast now has some wheels. That said, I may have explored the limits of 3d printing...:/ 

 

 

These have been SLA resin printed. A hint of most of the details is there, but obviously the crispness is lacking! There is malformation of the roundness due to the support structures that would have been attached during printing, so I will have to see if I can sand it down. The inside rim is missing - this was deleted from the file as I had problems merging the various components and in the end gave up and resolved to make the rim from 8mm brass tube. In retrospect this is not a bad thing as it will probably be sharper than if it was printed.

As I say, a hint of most of the details is there, for example the little hex nuts around the hub cap:

But I'd be kidding myself if I said it looked just like the original file!

 

 

Also, the tyre grooves haven't made it, which is disappointing.

 

All in all though, an interesting foray. I'll definately use them and see how they scrub up with a bit of a sand, some paint and a wash. 

 

Other effort off the bench have included work on the decals. The plan is to do BA Negus, straight and simple. I'd like to do G-ASGI, as I am enamoured of this photo of her:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Vickers-Super-VC10-Srs1151/1202712?qsp=eJwtjbEKAjEQRP9lay1EsLguNoeVgv7AshnOQLyE3RU8jvt3Y7Ab3jxmVpIyOz7%2BWCpoIAOrPGlHlZVfRsNKiimZK3sqcxB/c27euA/38dI8K%2BrnpZHIjiCC6oh/ftUI/VUw6ZNTuzi0AL31TMdT4zFZzdw34JwybdsXTakyMA%3D%3D

 

There is little to distinguish Negus airframes, but Golf India here does feature dayglow tape on the wing tips, which is quite fun.   The hardest part of the decals is nailing the BA lettering, its a serifed typeface which is just slightly curlier and more friendly than Times New Roman. I ended up tracing round a rather woolly image of the original in Onshape and fettling it in MS Paint of all things! This is the evolution:

 

And this is my evolving decal sheet, including GPO logos, RR logos and an emergency escape hatch:

 

One missing detail is a little emblem on top left corner of the passenger doors, I haven't yet found a reference for what it is. Is it a Union Jack?

 

If anyone can help, holler!

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Bangseat

[Scott Garard]

The little emblem is a small red & blue "british airways" logo stacked vertically.

 

Here's some clearer copies for you to use:

 

 

Cheers!

 

Scott.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Scott Garard