The Mach 2 VC-10 - What Rough Beast

[busnproplinerfan]

14 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

I changed the URL prefix from "https" to "http" and it worked. But this apparently means the site is not secure.

Not secure? is the site going fall out off the net?

[Space Ranger]

4 minutes ago, busnproplinerfan said:

Not secure? is the site going fall out off the net?

It means it can be hacked, and any information you transmit via the site (like credit card numbers) can be stolen. I've contacted the site owners about the issue. Or should I say, "tried to contact." I attempted to use the contact form on the site's "Contacts" page, but when I clicked on the "Submit" button, it created an email instead of transmitting the information directly. There's obviously some thing(s) wrong with their site, and I would suggest not ordering anything over it until the issues are resolved. I did send the email.

[busnproplinerfan]

1 hour ago, Space Ranger said:

It means it can be hacked, and any information you transmit via the site (like credit card numbers) can be stolen. I've contacted the site owners about the issue. Or should I say, "tried to contact." I attempted to use the contact form on the site's "Contacts" page, but when I clicked on the "Submit" button, it created an email instead of transmitting the information directly. There's obviously some thing(s) wrong with their site, and I would suggest not ordering anything over it until the issues are resolved. I did send the email.

Likely the better thing is to email the person.

[71chally]

12 hours ago, Marklo said:

But I do reckon if every kit was perfect with refined detail and good engineering we’ed get bored pretty soon and go do something else.

...yeah, not sure that I subscribe to that theory.

 

However it does give me the greatest of pleasure to see other people fighting with less than perfect kits, Bangseat, how's that VC-10 coming on?

[Marklo]

Now don’t get me wrong I do like a good kit, but I suppose I also like to be challenged in my modelling skill, which is probably why I build a mix of oob, conversions and scratchbuilds. 
 

I do fear the rise of 3D printing and modelling becoming obsolete ( just as the Xbox has rendered it something of a niche among younger folk)
 

Then again there those of us who will still model old school for our own pleasure.

 

But that as I always say it’s your hobby and so long as you’re enjoying it I won’t argue with you.

[Bangseat]

@Marklo...an interesting debate! I for one bend the knee to modellers who can scratchbuild complex shapes from basswood, acrylic and Miliput, but at the end of the day doing it with accuracy is usually dependent on having some pretty substantial kit, such as pillar drills, scroll saws, band saws, disc/belt sanders, and lathes. It’s not just a matter of patiently whittling away at a piece of balsa with a penknife while smoking a pipe. For me, what CAD/3D printing offers is the ability to do that precision work without all the heavy equipment. Easier? Well, maybe, but it requires all the same thinking, visualisation and maths. 

 

 

This is the front chunk of replacement fuselage in its latest incarnation. Now I’m not saying this is anything to write home about CAD-wise, but at my skill level, I would really struggle to do this on my bench. The fuselage itself could be a solid, or it could be a shell moulded from fibregIass, or a home vacuform I suppose but I would need some sort of reaming machine to do accurate oval windows. I’m sure there are some who can do them perfectly symmetrical with a hand drill and a file, but not me I’m afraid!

 

I’ll do the second, shorter plug next, and then see if my man with the technology can turn them into 3D FDM prints (the cheap method, where your model comes out stripy). 

 

All best,

Harry

[busnproplinerfan]

If it doesn't work, you could put the nose on one side of the wall and the tall on the other side. I'm sure this will work.

[TonkaGuy]

A 1/72 VC10 this is gonna be huge and a beaut at that! 

[Space Ranger]

8 hours ago, Marklo said:

I do fear the rise of 3D printing and modelling becoming obsolete ( just as the Xbox has rendered it something of a niche among younger folk)

3D CAD and 3D Printing are just newer tools. They may augment or even replace our X-acto knives and files and sandpaper, but they don't replace the creative process. Like the knives, files, and sandpaper, they simply (well, maybe not simply; there is a learning curve) help us create the objects that we first visualize in our heads.

[Max Headroom]

Is it finished yet mister ? 

 

Trevor

[Marklo]

Don’t get me wrong ( have I said that before) I live cad and 3D printing and use them extensively in my job. Which is I suppose also a good reason not to use them for modelling, although I do do the odd 3D model to use to make things in the real world. 
 

Not to ramble on (too much) but working in aviation is probably one of the things that made me forgo modelling for so many years, but that’s probably just me.

[bar side]

Looking forward to seeing this one progress.  I had the absurd idea of scratch building a 1/48 VC-10 once. I knocked up a quick card template to see how big it would be & estimated the fuselage to about a Pringles tube diameter.  Mock up looked like this

 

 

That is a 1/48 FGR2 in front for scale.  Didn’t get any further but it still hangs around the back of my mind.  Would be like one of those travel agent window models.  Lack of the kind of design detail you are talking about was the main issue.

[Bangseat]

@bar side..love it! Although with vc10s, can I suggest something like a Labrador would be better for comparison? 

 

Speaking of mock ups, I've been getting my head around exactly how much I need to add to the fuselage. The hull OOB looks something like this:

It comes in at 659mm, but should be 671, so 12mm have gone astray somewhere. The Super should be 726mm, so my plan is thus:

The main stretch is at the front, with an extra 35mm, and an extra 32mm behind the wing. This though is really just based on eye balling and rough calculations from questionable drawings:

If a better reference turns up, I will have some wriggle room as I can adjust the size of my plugs. If not, no point in letting the truth get in the way of a good model (dons tin hat)..

 

Location of windows is key of course. The drawing above does tally with pics of BA vc10s on airliners net - there is a gap between the first 20 windows and the rest - so I'm fairly confident with that at least. There will also need to be just one extra window on the rear fuselage plug. 

 

Meanwhile, actual modelling has taken place on the nose revamp. After trowelling on some p38.. 

This is fun! Definately feels closer to the right shape, but not quite there. Also, I'm increasing of the opinion the underside of the nose needs work as well. 

 

Advice from wiser heads, as ever, most welcome. Now, I'm off to make a vacformer with some plywood, Gorilla glue and a Henry Hoover. 

 

Happy modelling folks, it's perfect (UK) weather for it...

 

Harry

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Bangseat

[JosephLalor]

As a falcon who didn't hear the falconer and has had the leisure to ponder the rod I've made for my own back by buying this kit, I shall follow this thread to see how you get on - as the project slouches toward Bethlehem to be born I daresay.

Edited February 15, 2020 by JosephLalor

[Bangseat]

Evening folks,

 

Its been a while since I last reported in, as life has been calling me forth from the attic with frustrating regularity. All good stuff I must say, we're shifting house in the near future, although I must say the thought of vacating the attic has me chewing the duvet a bit..I think my stash may now be a supporting wall. 

 

So in spite of milarky, some progress has been made. Having made a buck for my cockpit insert...

I first tried to make a vacuum former, but I couldn't get nearly enough vacuum over the part. I may have leaky plumbing.

 

So although I may persevere, strategy 2 was to make a solid clear part out of resin. So I attempted my first silicone mould! I've always wanted to have a crack at this.

Actually it took an absolute age to set - the moral is, I think, shake your activator before use - but now it seems to a goer I have some polyester clear resin in there curing. That will also take time to go off, will check at the weekend.

 

Meanwhile, I double checked my fuselage profiles that I had sketched in cad against the surfaces my 3d printed parts will liaise with. Quotes I am getting for this are quite pricey, so I hope to get it right first time. I've gone wrong somewhere though..

So a bit more work before I can send my files off for printing. Slowly slowly catchy tiger.

 

Someone asked about the under cart. It's not great sadly..

 

So, I have also been cad tinkering with that..

Whether I actually get this done - it's expensive I'm finding- is a question, but I'm generally thrilled with the possibilities..

 

If anyone knows a 3d print shop who likes modellers, please do get in touch!

 

All best,

Harry

 

 

 

[hendie]

Are you shelling out the components or leaving them solid?  That will greatly affect the price.

I had a few things printed for my builds but I have now bought my own 3D printer as prices dropped drastically over the last year.  It will pay for itself within a few months (If it hasn't already)

[Nocoolname]

Not Mach 2 but I do have an Airwaves Vacu-form VC-10 that I was going to build as a British Airways bird. I had wondered whether the Mach 2 might be an easier build. Any thoughts folks?

[Bangseat]

On 26/02/2020 at 19:29, hendie said:

Are you shelling out the components or leaving them solid?  That will greatly affect the price.

I had a few things printed for my builds but I have now bought my own 3D printer as prices dropped drastically over the last year.  It will pay for itself within a few months (If it hasn't already)

They are hollow, but still looking at about 60 quid just for the fuselage sections. I'm sure your investment has paid off, I have been almost buying one for quite a while. What machine did you buy?

[Marklo]

On 2/14/2020 at 2:52 PM, Bangseat said:

It’s not just a matter of patiently whittling away at a piece of balsa with a penknife while smoking a pipe.

Well I don’t smoke a pipe, but a lot of my modelling is done that way. It is quite possible to make accurate models this way but you do need a few tools ( strait edges, drills, files, etc) and a bit of patience. I’ll use Cad etc to make sure I have good drawings to work off and I do ( did) have my little laser engraver for specific jobs.
 

Btw my trade I’m a mechanical engineer, I’ve worked in aerospace, microelectronics and medical devices.and I reckon part of the fun of how I do my hobby is exactly that, hand crafting a scale model, almost the exact opposite of my work methods ( CAD/CNC/robotics etc)

 

Any way To each his own, if you’re enjoying it I won’t argue.

 

Nice work on the VC so far by the way.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Marklo

[Roland Pulfrew]

Ooh, just stumbled on this topic. I’ve got one of these to build, so please excuse me if I get a few 🍺🍺 and some 🥜🥜🥜 and follow progress (and steal a few tips 😇). 

[Kushan_Farsight]

On 2/12/2020 at 11:05 PM, Bangseat said:

I’m using Onshape, which is available as free cloud-based software, on the condition that you don’t mind all your files being public, and that you can cope with a few very simple standard CAD features being disabled in a really annoying way. These include -

·   A)     You can’t set line lengths numerically (you have to draw them carefully to length with the mouse)

·     You can’t change to mm – inches all the way.

·   C)     You can’t, as far as I can see, import a reference image to sketch on top of. 

Basically, our relationship is not set to last. But, having learnt what some of the buttons do now, I’m on a roll and I can do what I need to on it for now...

 

Onshape semi-pro here, and happy to say you CAN do all the 3 things you want!

A)  - draw a line (in sketch mode), once youve drawn it a prompt should come up to allow you to type in the exact value your after. if this doesnt come up, you can click the "dimension" button (19th button in after the undo/redo), click on the line, and add a dimension value to it.

 

B - Click the three vertical lines next to the Onshape name,  this will bring a little drop down menu up. from there there is a setting "Workspace Units" -  im exclusively a cm/mm man and this was a must do change. 

 

C- You can! Its just not clear the process you need to follow. firstly, you need to "Upload" the image. so click the '+' button at the bottom left, this will bring up a new menu where you can choose Import. select your image, and it will be uploaded to the onshape server. Once you have done this, you need to add your image as an 'overlay' to a new sketch.  Create your new sketch (or use existing geometry to create a sketch plane) and click the small down arrow next to the DXF icon (18th in after undo/redo) - here it says Insert Image - then select your uploaded image, at which point you can click and drag to scale up/down the image as required. you can use the dimensioning ability in point A to set a specific length/height to the reference image. 

 

Hope it helps, and if you have any other onshape qualms just post them here and ill do my best to help!  

 

[Marklo]

I tried onshape but wasn’t struck on it. I’m a solidworks and proengineer( a close second) Fan myself. Autodesk have a new package fusion 360 ( I think) which is free to hobbyists, but I never got around to trying it.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Marklo

[hendie]

5 hours ago, Bangseat said:

I have been almost buying one for quite a while. What machine did you buy?

 

I bought an Elegoo Mars and been uber impressed with the quality of the parts I've been making.

[Ad-4N]

Man I got to tell ya, you've got to love the VC-10 in 1/72 to tackle the Mach 2 kit!  I salute you!  I am not a bad modeler, but I could never pull off what you are accomplishing.  I bow to your abilities.  👍

[Bangseat]

@Kushan_Farsight...thank you! I will sit down with it this weekend and have a play. To be honest, I read so much trash on Onshape changing their T&Cs recently ("why Onshape now sucks".."why you need to learn Fusion 360") that I assumed they were features that had been switch off.