reini Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 NORWEGIAN STAR - CF-104G Starfighter (1:72) - 331 Squadron, Royal Norwegian Air Force, Late 70's. One got finished, so I got only two Nordic builds going on at the moment - better start a new one so I don't run out of momentum! This is 'Part Two' if you will - my double seater Super Sabre being part one. It will all become bit more clear once all the builds are all done. But for now, this will be about norwegian CF-104G getting airborne on a intercept mission - so a simple base will be included (eventually). This is my kit of choice - a Hasegawa CF-104. Hasegawa really is the way to go with Starfighters on a 1/72 scale - even if Italeri and Revell can produce a good results too. I prefer Hasegawa just because of the canopy that looks to be most precise - and can be displayed open. Details wise, it's quite good too - but Italeri is somewhat better on wing details. This is what I have to work with. Basic kit with some aftermarket stuff. Kit is showing it's age. It looks mostly decent but flash is quite evident in most of the sprues. After checking this kit out I realised that CF-104 apparently had non-bulged wheel doors - unlike the normal F-104G's. Early on Norwegian CF-104's didn't have the gun installed. Starting from mid 70's they received an update in the form of gun, RWR and better radar. I will be doing a late 70's plane . Clear parts. Aftermarket stuff. Not sure what makes the wheels 'Turkish' - as they were basically using second hand machines from other NATO countries. Looks normal G-wheels with optional 'F-16' nose wheel that some of the S-models had. CF-104 didn't have the wheel door bulges like the G - so I'm guessing these are too wide - but I'm suspecting the difference won't be noticeable. Have to do some comparison with the kit wheels. Decals from Xtradecal sheet (X72315). This will be green upperside and grey underside color scheme. I have the FS numbers written down somewhere - but good suggestions from Vallejo or Tamiya color range are welcomed. Thanks for checking - more will follow Oh, final thing - I tend to get bit carried away with my builds - so @RidgeRunner or @Giorgio N (or anyone with knowledge about Norwegian Starfighters for that matter!) feel free to stop me if I seem to be doing something that I shouldn't be doing 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 really??? another one!! Welcome and all that blah blah blah...... I can see there's going to be a world wide shortage of Nordic themed models so at the rate these threads are going up. Nice to see you're adding some extra AM stuff to her. Well you also know the good luck spiel (probably off by heart now), so get to it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 You really are keeping yourself very busy aren't you Reini! Another excellent choice of subject and markings and it looks like you know about the mods needed for a late 70's Norwegian Zipper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reini Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, modelling minion said: You really are keeping yourself very busy aren't you Reini! Another excellent choice of subject and markings and it looks like you know about the mods needed for a late 70's Norwegian Zipper. Truth to be told - I have a vague idea what I'm supposed to be doing, but thats all. I really I am learning as I go Usually from other awesome people here 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Always good to see a Norwegian Starfighter ! The 331 Sqn. machines are one of my favourite subjects and I built one a few years ago. Here's a link to this build, you may find some information there Another very useful kink is this one, where you will find a lot of information on the Norwegian Starfighters: http://starfighter.no/indeng.html Reading your introduction I noticed one detail that may bw worth sorting from the start; the variant you want to build. Norway used two different variants of the single-seat Starfighters: 331 Sqn used F-104Gs.. or better, they used the RF-104G ! However these were generally configured as fighters and not for recce so they were pretty much identical to the F-104G. A number of these were built by Canadair but they were not CF-104s as they were built to Lockheed's G standard. The Canadian CF-104 did serve in Norway but with 334 Sqn. These aircraft were former RCAF CF-104s that were modified by Scottish Aviation Ltd. to the F-104G standard. I have to check if the modifications also included the wider wheels and bulged wheel well doors, I have an article in a magazine that explained all the work carried out on these aircraft, will have to dig it off the magazine pile. It is easy to tell which are F-104Gs and which are CF-104 in pictures: apart from the unit markings, the Gs were initially in natural metal (with upper wing surfaces in white and lower in grey) and then in overall light grey. The CFs were in dark green over light grey. 331 Sqn was tasked with air defence while 334 Sqn, did more ground attack work but they also did some air defence. Now what does this all mean ? Mainly that you sure need builged doors for a 331 Sqn. machine while I'm not sure about a 334 Sqn. one (but I have vague memories that you will also need them for these). The wheels in the resin set you have should be the wider wheels of the G, so correct for a 331 Sqn. aircraft and maybe the others too. The narrow CF-104 wheels (that were also used on the F-104J and very early F-104Gs) have a different rim, similar but different. All these details are of importance only if you want to go for accuracy in your build. I tend to be quite fastidious when it comes to Starfighters but not all modellers are like me (and I'm much less dedicated to these details myself when it comes to other subjects), so your call on what to do with the bulges and wheels. If you're interested, I will go in another post through some modifications that improve the look of the Hasegawa kit and some areas that I've found need some care when I built my previous models from this kit. IMHO this is a very nice kit, quite easy to build, but an be improved with some little work. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reini Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 @Giorgio N Wow, I need a second to process all the information - but what you are saying is that 331 green/gray CF is not correct? This is the decal sheet my decals are from - seems to be wrong then? (Image 3, bottom) https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72315?result-token=wKOJY Would those markings on a aluminium G be correct? I'm all ears for your Starfighter wisdom - hoping to build accurate representation of the plane. Atleast as much as my modelling skills allow me to do, that is... To begin with, I'll have to check your build thread and link, thanks for those 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I will check if for some reason this aircraft carried 331 Sqn. markings. 870 was a CF-104 and served for sure with 334 Sqn.... actually I should say that she is a CF-104, as this aircraft has been preserved. Speaking of unit markings, 331 had the tricolour flash in red white and blue while 334 carried a flash in red and white only. If the Xtradecal sheet is not correct, I feel that it could be possible to modify the markings to the red/white of 334. This unit for a while took over air defence duties from 331 Sqn. while the latter was converting to the F-16, so it's still possible to arm one of their Starfighters for this kind of mission 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Giorgio N said: If the Xtradecal sheet is not correct, I feel that it could be possible to modify the markings to the red/white of 334. I am sorry to say, but the Xtradecal items are far from correct. Wrong sizes, wrong shapes, and incomplete. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Vingtor said: I am sorry to say, but the Xtradecal items are far from correct. Wrong sizes, wrong shapes, and incomplete. That's very annoying, although unfortunately not too surprising.. Xtradecal have made some great decals but also some quite inaccurate ones... Of course the best solution would be to get a Vingtor sheet.. but is the CF-104 sheet still available today ? Edited February 11, 2020 by Giorgio N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vppelt68 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 5 hours ago, Vingtor said: I am sorry to say, but the Xtradecal items are far from correct. Wrong sizes, wrong shapes, and incomplete. ...and they also write in the instructions "Luftforsvaret (Royal Danish Air Force)" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Giorgio N said: Of course the best solution would be to get a Vingtor sheet.. but is the CF-104 sheet still available today ? The CF-104 decals have been reprinted, and are available in all three scales. Nils 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 A great subject choice Reini so I'm hoping you can get a suitable set of decals for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reini Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) Okay, so that crashed & burned rather fast But let's regroup! All in all - decals seem to be the problem, so I will go with Vingtor decals. I will get the stencils too that the Xtradecal seemed to be missing. So... CF-104G, 334sq, green&grey, early'80s, on intercept duty when 331sq was converting to F-16, armed with 2xAIM-9L on fuselage launchers & wingtip tanks. @Giorgio N & @Vingtor would that sound plausible? About the wheels - all the pics I've looked seemed to have non-bulged doors (like this for example: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Norway-Air-Force/Lockheed-Canadair-CF-104-Starfighter-CL-90/2227418 ) - so kit wheels are better fit than those aftermarket wheels? Edited February 12, 2020 by reini 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 15 hours ago, reini said: CF-104G, 334sq, green&grey, early'80s, on intercept duty when 331sq was converting to F-16, armed with 2xAIM-9L on fuselage launchers & wingtip tanks. @Giorgio N & @Vingtor would that sound plausible? About the wheels - all the pics I've looked seemed to have non-bulged doors (like this for example: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Norway-Air-Force/Lockheed-Canadair-CF-104-Starfighter-CL-90/2227418 ) - so kit wheels are better fit than those aftermarket wheels? The configuration sounds good, but it would have been the AIM-9J. Thin wheels without the bulged doors are correct for the CF-104 (and the type designation should be without the 'G'). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reini Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 Right on, decals ordered - also CF-104 wheels. I really should do more research before a build, not during it. But I think we will sort this out Made a start with the cockpit. Basic parts laid out, nothing special but I think they work out of the box. Cockpit tub has weird step where you have to bend it in a little bit - not sure why... Fuselage has too many antennas, some has to go... Like so. I had the PE parts so I thought I'd add some. I like the raised plastic details more on the side consoles - they are nicer to paint and look more 3D. But I think the front dash could look pretty good so I will try that out. Some of the PE parts added to the cockpit and parts readied for painting. Airbrushed some Dark Ghost Gray for the interior parts. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I see you're off to a good start ! Hope it's not too late, here's a list of things to check for in this kit, totally off my mind so I may have forgotten something. In this case, I'll hopefully find it in time before you approach the relevant build step. The kit is, as you've seen, quite nice. However having been in production for such a long time, the moulds can suffer from flash. Assembly is generally easy, with a few trouble spots... The cockpit: it's not always easy to get this in the right place ! I also believe that overall should be slightly higher... this is due to the simple fact that the instrument coaming is thicker than should be. Not really Hasegawa's fault, as the thickness of the plastic is what it is, it's just a compromise due to the injection moulding process. Personally I'veoften struggled to glue the cockpit in place but the parts are so nice that I just consider this as part of the job. The air intakes: these can be tricky to align correctly. The only recipe I know is... patience ! One alternative strategy is this: glue the intakes outer parts to the rear fuselage to get this assembly right. Then add the inner part (the plates with the cones) so that they are correcly located. Then dryfit the forward fuselage halves and if required add a slice of plasticard in between to slightly increase the widt of the fuselage so that correctly touches the intakes. This approach also helps in bringing the rear and forward sections of the fuselage spine to the same width. The lower rear fuselage: here the plastic is quite thin and it's not easy to get a good seam. In every and each one of my builds I've had troubles here and I've built 4 of these kits. Filling and sanding can of course sort the matter but this often results in the obliteration of the rivets in the area... that may not necessarily be a bad thing ! The rivets on the rear area in this kit are a bit too deep and too noticeable. Personally I left them in place in all my models, apart from those that I lost while sanding... in this case my choice was to remove all the ones in that specific panel. Main landing gear actuators: these are IMHO not designed correctly and it's not easy to get all parts to touch where they should. Personally I would consider replacing them with brass tubing of various diameter- To be honest the whole main landing gear is tricky. The main part is supposed to be glue in place early in the build, I personally prefer to add this at the end. The problem is that the legs attachment point is covered by a part painted in the lower fuselage colour, that makes adding this at the end a bit troublesome. While the kit is nice, there are a few things that should be added or modified. Minor things that however IMHO improve the look of the model. The wings are not as detailed as they could be. Replacing them with Esci wings would be the best option but some details can be rescribed on the original parts. The shape of the panels is simplified and there are a few small panels missing. Not too hard to fill and rescribe if you're so inclined. Moving to the fuselage, totally lacking are the vents in the gun area, both on the side of the gun bay and on the lower fuselage. In the build I linked I represented these with black decals, in my future models I'd like to scribe these into the plastic. Moving forward, the F-104 features a panel under the cockpit, that you can see painted as bare fibreglass in my build. This in the kit is of the wrong shape and as it's generally left in fibreglass, it shows quite a lot. I did not correct this in my build as I had totally forgotten about it but I did in my later builds. Hasegawa represented this as a rectangle but it's actually rounded at the edges and the size is a bit different. Speaking of fibreglass areas, the one on the top fuselage just behind the canopy is also not defined by a panel line on the left side. You may want to scribe the line or simply mask accordingly when painting. Then there's the problem of which antenna stays and which must go... check your pictures here ! What must sure be removed are the small teardrop fairings on the sides of the rear fuselage as these were part of the Sparrow guidance system installed on the F-104S. Same for the conical antennas, these are also only used on the S. Another antenna to remove is the one at the rear end of the horizontal tailplanes. And then there's the light moulded on the top rear fuselage, that can or not be present depending on variant and user (can't remember if the Norwegian CF had this or not). If you're adding weapons, it's worth checking what variant of ventral rails were used on these aircraft. Hasegawa oversimplified the NATO standard rails used on the G, can't remember if the ones in the J/CF box are more correct, IIRC they are but are for the Japanese variant. If using the wingtip rails, these should have the rear part in coloured clear plastic but are moulded as a single piece. The best reference for the kind of rails and catamaran used on the G is the Eduard 1/48 resin set, check on their pages the instructions in pdf format: https://www.eduard.com/eduard/f-104-pylons-1-48.html?listtype=search&searchparam=f-104 A very nice picture of the Aero 3B rails can be seen here, and points to the fact that the Norwegian CF-104s used this tyoe and not the Japanese Red Dog belly launchers http://starfighter.no/cf-104/801/pages/104801.Gardermoen.2006b.html This should be it for the moment... there is however one very important thing that I should mention, not related to the Hasegawa kit... in the link to the Norwegian website I posted above, I noticed that not all links to pictures seem to work in the English language version. However they do work in the Norwegian pages ! Check here all the aircraft that served with 334 Sqn. and click on the tail numbers to see plenty of pictures, some showing very minute details http://starfighter.no/sq334.html 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reini Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 Thank you @Giorgio N ! Not too late, I'm quite 'real time' with the builds in comparison to my WIP threads, so I'm currently at as can be seen on the last picture. That is a good writeup with solid information - I will be sure to reference it during my build! And you are very correct at saying 'check your pictures' - a thing that is sometimes easy to forget even if you have reference pictures easily available. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Just catching up on some Nordic GB threads that I've missed over the last few days / weeks! Nice to see a Norwegian 104 on here and I'll be following you closely with a Hasegawa Danish Starfighter myself. Seems like there's plenty of small details to take note and consider which all points to having plenty of fun whilst learning the subject as you go. Cheers and best of luck.. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reini Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 Aftermarket stuff has arrived Wheels. These should be for CF-104 now. Bit hard to tell the difference to G wheels... ... but when put side to side - it's easy to see the difference. G wheels on the left, CF on the right. CF rims protrude more - G rims are more sunken. Also new decals. Nice looking sheet and good amount of options. I was instantly drawn to '801'. Late 334 bird that was at the end of it's life with patched green paintjob. I thought the one different paintjob on the fuel tanks was nice small detail that I'll be doing in my build. Wrong size of the Xtradecal national insignia was mentioned - and being curious I thought to put them side to side. Xtradecal on the left and right - Vingtor in the middle with the blue blackground. Insignia next to each other should be the same size, but it is clear that Xtradecal insignia are much bigger. Also some off the details are off with Xtradecal, for example the red should be touching the blue circle I think. This really makes me second guess getting Xtradecals in the future - sure they are very tempting with wide variety of options - but when broken down to a single plane, the amount of decals is very little with no stencils and still having so many details wrong, it's bit off putting. Will be considering more specific detail sheets in the future with the hope they are better researched. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Can't blame you for treating Xtradecal with a measure of suspicion. Found them lacking in accuracy after checking in a few cases as well 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 13 hours ago, reini said: with patched green paintjob. I thought the one different paintjob on the fuel tanks was nice small detail that I'll be doing in my build. Just my kind of thing 12 hours ago, Col. said: Can't blame you for treating Xtradecal with a measure of suspicion. Found them lacking in accuracy after checking in a few cases as well I'd say they are okay to use but check you references, as everyone should really Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reini Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 Okay, who want's to be the Next Starfighter Pilot? Wild looking bunch that I scavenged from my bits box. They are of quite different sizes. You look like a perfect fit. No cutting needed. Yet. Be warned though, being a Starfighter pilot sometimes requires to be amputated below the knee. Both legs. We will see how it goes... I think this guy is from an old Airfix Buccaneer. Lots of flash and huge hands, but looks ok'ish otherwise. Good enough to be hidden inside the cockpit atleast. First round of painting done, already got down some details and stuff. There are clear film parts for the gauges - that are not really shown well in this photo. Cockpit parts more or less done. Cockpit was tight enough so just a little bending of the legs was necessary... oops... might have snapped them off. But I warned that it was a possibility Now it fits perfectly! One of these things appeared on the work bench again. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 You've made a good start to this one with all that cockpit detail. Do like to see a pilot figure getting included as well, a rare thing these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reini Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Col. said: You've made a good start to this one with all that cockpit detail. Do like to see a pilot figure getting included as well, a rare thing these days. I thought it was necessary as the plane will be displayed flying - or to be more precise - taking off. Like that Hasegawa box art in the first post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 3 hours ago, reini said: I thought it was necessary as the plane will be displayed flying - or to be more precise - taking off. Like that Hasegawa box art in the first post Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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