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moaning dolphin

Fleet Air Arm Avenger

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Good day one and all!

Just seen the thread open so laying down my marker. I am going for Italeris Avenger in 1:48 (the old Accurate Miniatures kit). This one will be decked out as a Fleet Air Arm version, hoping to do a Pacific Fleet one. The only thing I have done is blow the dust off and give it a good wash!

2020-02-10_11-59-32

 

I will do the obligatory parts and accessories shots tonight and post them up tomorrow, along with more details on what version I am doing.

Until then Laters!

Bob

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A fine choice Bob, I love an avenger!

 

Rob 

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I've this boxing of the kit and fancy an FAA Avenger myself, so I'll be following this one for sure.  Will you be fitting out the observer's cockpit?

Edited by JosephLalor

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22 minutes ago, JosephLalor said:

Will you be fitting out the observer's cockpit?

That is my intention but I have found nothing concrete that would show me the layout. I know that he had a seat and I've seen graining pictures of an observer sat in there but nowt on what equipment was in there. I am assuming a seat, radio set and some black boxes, so I will be making it up. Maybe look at a Firefly and Fulmar set up for inspiration ……….. unless you know of anything 😉:whistle:

Cheers now

Bob

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16 minutes ago, moaning dolphin said:

That is my intention but I have found nothing concrete that would show me the layout. I know that he had a seat and I've seen graining pictures of an observer sat in there but nowt on what equipment was in there. I am assuming a seat, radio set and some black boxes, so I will be making it up. Maybe look at a Firefly and Fulmar set up for inspiration ……….. unless you know of anything 😉:whistle:

Cheers now

Bob

I'd probably end up emulating whatever worked for @tonyot on his 1/32 Trumpeter model.

Edited by JosephLalor

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3 hours ago, moaning dolphin said:

That is my intention but I have found nothing concrete that would show me the layout. I know that he had a seat and I've seen graining pictures of an observer sat in there but nowt on what equipment was in there. I am assuming a seat, radio set and some black boxes, so I will be making it up. Maybe look at a Firefly and Fulmar set up for inspiration ……….. unless you know of anything 😉:whistle:

Cheers now

Bob

I went through this whole process a few years back for the FAA GB, I did a 1/48th Avenger of the HMS Victorious (check it out if you want), and info of this extra seat is really hard to come by

 

This may give you a start and an idea of how to go, I can't remember where I came across these, but know it was after hours of searching.

 

Avengerrearcockpit.jpg

 

tbf-1rear_seat.jpg

 

Plus KMC did do an update set many many years ago for an early Avenger with the extra seat. It's now long out of production but I managed to find a picture of the instructions and resin floor plan. This may help with what you need to add to this area.

 

tbfsetinst-XL.jpg

 

tbfloor1-M.jpg

 

Let me know if there's anything else I can help with....if i can.

 

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Nick @85sqn did a really good FAA Avenger.  Come on Nick post a couple of pictures..

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15 hours ago, trickyrich said:

This may give you a start and an idea of how to go

That's brilliant information! Its certainly better than what I have. I think there is enough to go on, it looks like the British version had a large black box (radio set?) rather than a bank of instrument dials. My version wont be radar equipped so I think I would be looking more at a radio set rather than a screen set up. It also looks like the seat is very similar (same?) as the front seat but with only a lap strap. Thanks for posting those pics, off to check out your build now!

Bob

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Hi folks, as Phil said I did an Avenger a while ago. Tony o' Tooles work is good too for some inspiration. Here's mine:

 

 

 

An here a thread I started you may find useful: 

 

Best regards

 

Nick

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Great choice 

 

I built one of these probably all of 10 years ago now and it still remains one of my favourite kits. 

 

Look forward to some progress

 

James 

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Thanks to everyone for throwing in references, its very much appreciated, keep them coming!

 

So as we wait for the kick off I thought Id put up the obligatory kit shots and the other bits and bobs available.

Boxtop

20200210_183746

 

And the parts

20200210_183634

 

20200210_183532

 

All crisply molded and looking good! Not sure on the 2 engine cowls yet, so I may have to be careful there, and the kit decals which are showing the age over 15 odd years in my stash.

 

20200210_183817

 

Oh errrr!

 

20200210_183823

 

I do have these in the stash from many years ago in better condition along with some etch, I had just ordered the etch from Hannants and opened the pack to find 2 sets! I thought I had dipped in big style, but alas no, I checked the order and found I had ordered 2 instead of one, DOH! Still the extra harness may come in handy!

 

20200210_183941

 

With the decals I had done the white 771 NAS version  15 years previously but unfortunately that aircraft never survived an emigration and parts of it ended up in the scrap bin ……. talking of which......

 

20200210_184123

 

The srcap parts that may or may not  be useful, there are also some bits of an Eduard etch set that I may be able to salvage

 

Finally an extra that I contemplated using but in the end didn't feel up to it

 

20200210_184250

 

Its a conversion set for an AS version, I thought about it but couldn't find any relevant decals and if you think a Tarpon is sparse on internal details then this version is impossible lol! I may look out for another Avenger kit in the future and try this again as either a Canadian or Fleet Air Arm version. In the meantime I am safely packing it away!

 

That's all for now!

Bob

 

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The Avenger has been on my must build list for sometime. I'll be really interested to see how this goes together so good luck with it, also the links to @85sqn's build show some seriously nice finishing.

Cheers,

Mark.

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Well its midnight in the UK but its only 8 PM in Nova Scotia, so I am off and cracking on, albeit just a little tonight before a nice glass of wine. So where to start? Well its got to be that Observers (don't say Navigator!) cockpit, Looking at the photo posted previously...

On 2/10/2020 at 5:16 PM, trickyrich said:

tbf-1rear_seat.jpg

I am going to try and recreate the floor of the area and the seat as above for now, so this is the virgin part, 

 

2020-02-14_08-08-30

 

Basically I want to remove some of that detail in the rear and keep some of the electronic boxes as they look a good shape. All in all To make it easier and the details more crisp I removed the whole lot!

 

20200214_195544

 

The moulded tube coming out of the black box looks like an extension of the pilots control column, maybe for duel controls? So I will replace this with tube but also cut a hole so it looked like it was coming out of the structure. So then started building it up, first with some card to cover those unsightly holes but I also wanted to leave a recess in the floor for the flight control rod.

 

20200214_200501

 

So there we have it, I'll let it all go off, finely shape it and then build it up more. You can also see the seat. This is a scrap etch seat from my old build (I knew I would use it again!). I removed the bottom so that I could curve it much more to look like the seat above, and then replace it with shaped plastic, It also had an insert in the bottom which I added from card. I will sharpen up the removed detail and then add wiring from fine wire, once built up I'll prime and then paint. I need to go out and pick some up, I have seen plenty of references for the colours and will go with the 2 different shades of green.

 

Not much progress tonight but its a start, settling down now with a glass of wine and a bit of Netflix with Mrs C. Wont be a great deal of progress tomorrow as its a soccer tournament day for my son so will be out for the most of it. But until next time.

Laters!

Bob

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So after stripping all that away, I was left with a blank canvas and using @trickyrich 's photo above I tried to do an interpretation of that, blocking in the control run and manufacturing that curved cover over the back end of it. Initially I tried using scrap wheels to try and get the shape, but in the end just opted for whittling one down from plastic stock, that came out all right. I refitted the original items I cut off and put in a connecting rod that you can see as well. I finished this off with some wiring and knocked up the most important thing for the lonely observer in the back …….. his own personal pee tube! (The blacked wired thingy!)

 

20200216_155527

In the pic above I have added another bulkhead just behind the pilots one. This was the same piece as the one behind the pilots seat but from my scrap pile and I chopped the top off as the kit provides the top half. Also in there is an Observers table, like I said before good references for RN Avenger middle cockpits are almost non existent, so I plagerised from the builds of others. I'm hoping that someone can come back to me and prove its wrong with a nice clear photo, but until then it will do!

And from the other side, you can also see I have added in the rear bulkhead and masked it up using my Eduard masks. The kit instructions would have you mask just the one secion, which from what I can see is wrong.

20200216_155516

 

Next I loosly slotted in the seat to see how that looks

 

20200216_160248

 

Bit of a mishmash at the moment but will hopefully look ok with a coat of paint. And the other side

 

20200216_160301

 

Also clear in this one is a couple of scratch built cylinders, they sit either side of a large (I assume) electronic box. I don't think this box should be there but it is too late to remove it without causing a great deal of pain and destruction! We shall call it a one off modification to this aircraft.

 

Next I turned to the rear compartment of the aircraft. This is quite cavernous and could do with a bit of brightening up. The first thing I noticed was a bland 2D Pee tube, that wont do! so chopped that off.

 

2020-02-16_06-27-46

 

I also removed the radio box detail as it will be replaced by etch. The radar box also went as I assumed this would be located in the Observers office, Exactly where and how, alas I don't know yet! but will squeeze it in somehow. This is post clearing out.

 

20200216_160509

 

On that space behind the electronic box there is an area of blankness, this would be under the turret so I will fill that with black boxes and wiring. Also missing you may note there should be some kind of contraption in the middle, you can see it below in the centre where the flash is

 

20200216_160845

 

The kit option is quite simplistic and only half there (probably because you can only see the front half when its all together. The wires out of it would also just end no where, so I went about making my own from tube, not too bad so far.

 

2020-02-17_12-38-53

 

I will add in the wiring (tubing?) after painting. I think the real thing is somesort of hydraulic gubbins for the turret, Ill see if I can find out. After that it was time to go through the whole internal area and prepare everything for paint.

 

20200216_160408

 

Im going to do the cockpit sidewalls separately rather than install first so I can get a better shot at detail painting, I have primed and all that is needed now is some paint. I'm going for the Pacific Fleet version with the bars, forgotten the exact details, but looking at the serial she was a GM built machine so her entire cabin area should be US cockpit green and her bomb bay and other areas should be Zinc Chromate. Now I have neither but my dealer (yes I have a special dealer!) is back tomorrow and I can pick up some Mig Ammo paint then.

Cheers now

Bob 

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Good day again all! just a small update as in-between grocery shopping, kid soccer training and meeting up with my dealer, not much progress has taken place. Speaking of dealers, mine sorted me out with the paints I needed, namely the interior green and Zinc chromate. He deals with Mig Ammo range and this was the first time I have ever used them, so as soon as I got home I dug out the Chromate and gave it a whirl. It sprayed really nicely and I am happy with the result, even though I did miss the backside of a couple of stanchions in the bomb bay but ill cover them later. The results are below.

 

2020-02-18_09-29-45

 

I'm working tonight but after that I have a free evening tomorrow, so will mask up the rest of the airframe and spray the green. Once that's done there will be a lot of detail painting and then I can maybe close up the fuselage, but that's a little way off at the moment!

 

One thing I wasn't happy about with my dealer, I was having a good complain about not being able to get Naval Colours in acrylic where I live, then had the audacity to produce a set of paints from AK for RN western approaches. Well who can refuse such a thing eh? So then that cost me another arm and leg 🤣. I did have a look afterwards in my stash for something to try it on, and I have a 1:700 Trumpy HMS Eskimo. A very simple little kit, so if time permits I may throw that in as well.

 

Well that's all for this update, hopefully more soon.

Laters!

Bob

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, moaning dolphin said:

namely the interior green and Zinc chromate.

a quick point, before you get too far, the above colours IIRC are good for an Avenger II (Eastern built TBM) but not a Avenger I, (Grumman built TBF) which had Bronze Green cockpit,  and interior cowling parts in Grumman Gray (which is leftover early war USN Gray) 

Alan AKA @LDSModeller has photos of a NZ Avenger,  and maybe able to fill on the interior colour variation, 

questioned here

Quote

Cockpit colour:

Bronze green or dull dark green from bulkhead to turret with interior green in other crew areas? Grumman grey cowling? I know the photo is b+w but the cockpit doesn’t appear to be particularly dark in tone.

 

the external colours also vary depending if Grumman built, a TBF,  or Avenger I, or eastern Built, a TBM, or Avenger II.

 

the thread does give you British Serial blocks which will allow you to pick if Avenger I or II, and what US subtype they may be as well, so do check if you know what scheme you are doing.

 

all this is detailed in this post. 

 

HTH

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Nice paint work and details you have added, shaping up really nicely!

 

Rob

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wow that rear cockpit is great, some awesome scratchbuilding work there. I didn't go to that depth as surprisingly a lot of it gets hidden in the darkness of the cockpit......plus I was a bit lazy! :D

 

You may have already seen this, but it's a good goto guide for interior colours

 

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/interior-colours-of-us-aircraft-1941-45-part-i/

 

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1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

a quick point,

Thanks for that information, I had originally intended to do JZ114, which the Aeromaster Sheet references it as an Avenger MK2. Having done a bit more research into it, it turns out that JZ114 is indeed a Mk 1! Those shysters got it wrong and I fell for it lol! Luckily another option on the sheet is JZ525 and this is a Mk 2, Pacific Fleet and it comes up as an Eastern Built (GM) machine, so going by my available references the Zinc Chromate (which is not a colour but a coating thanks to information from @trickyrich !) with a yellow/green hue is appropriate (notice I didn't say correct! 😁) with the rest of the cockpit a kind of dark green.

 

Having read Rich's link below …….

 

38 minutes ago, trickyrich said:

 

it opens up a whole new can of worms! A very interesting read indeed but it does make it very hard to be 100% accurate so I will revert to my position of applying artistic license! I haven't sorted my external colours yet, I'm going to try for something authentic but again its a right pot mess! I might just be done with it and paint the whole thing in black and white shades!

 

 

1 hour ago, rob85 said:

Nice paint work and details you have added, shaping up really nicely!

 

47 minutes ago, trickyrich said:

wow that rear cockpit is great, some awesome scratchbuilding work there. I didn't go to that depth as surprisingly a lot of it gets hidden in the darkness of the cockpit......plus I was a bit lazy! :D

 

Thanks for the input! Keep jumping in!

Bob

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55 minutes ago, moaning dolphin said:

it opens up a whole new can of worms! A very interesting read indeed but it does make it very hard to be 100% accurate so I will revert to my position of applying artistic license! 

I do agree with you there, 99% :D, you can get completely caught up with it all, in the end loss sight of what you're doing and the fun of the build. If it looks good enough and close to what it should be then alls good.

 

Most of the time we're relying on other peoples memories and interpretations of publications/documents produced over 70 years ago......not a recipe for accuracy.

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55 minutes ago, moaning dolphin said:

it opens up a whole new can of worms! A very interesting read indeed but it does make it very hard to be 100% accurate so I will revert to my position of applying artistic license! 

I do agree with you there, 99% :D, you can get completely caught up with it all, in the end loss sight of what you're doing and the fun of the build. If it looks good enough and close to what it should be then alls good.

 

Most of the time we're relying on other peoples memories and interpretations of publications/documents produced over 70 years ago......not a recipe for accuracy.

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55 minutes ago, moaning dolphin said:

it opens up a whole new can of worms! A very interesting read indeed but it does make it very hard to be 100% accurate so I will revert to my position of applying artistic license! 

I do agree with you there, 99% :D, you can get completely caught up with it all, in the end loss sight of what you're doing and the fun of the build. If it looks good enough and close to what it should be then alls good.

 

Most of the time we're relying on other peoples memories and interpretations of publications/documents produced over 70 years ago......not a recipe for accuracy.

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7 hours ago, trickyrich said:

I do agree with you there, 99% :D, you can get completely caught up with it all, in the end loss sight of what you're doing and the fun of the build. If it looks good enough and close to what it should be then alls good.

 

Most of the time we're relying on other peoples memories and interpretations of publications/documents produced over 70 years ago......not a recipe for accuracy.

You can say that again Rich...  😂

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