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sohoppy

HMS Duke of York, 1/350, Tamiya/Pontos conversion

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Hello all,

I thought I would show my HMS Duke of York. I did a build log over at Modelshipworld but, for some reason, the images seem to have been moved and are now more or less inaccessible to search engines. This is a pity because, during the research for this project, I discovered a number of small features in her fitting-out that are often overlooked - and also some errors in kits and sources. Anyone working on a similar project might at least want to weigh up the evidence and see if they agree. It was a complex project but there are still some very good source pics at the Imperial War Museum site and elsewhere to help.

 

This model is fully rc with smoking funnels, moving guns, working lights and four motors. I'll put up a film when she has had her maiden voyage.

 

So here she is, photographed against a sheet of mirror plastic reflecting a real overcast sky. Something she spent a lot of her time underneath. Hope you like her.

 

Hull: Tamiya 1/350 Prince of Wales

Equipment: Pontos, Infini models, L'Arsenal, Tetra Model works, NorthStar, Mk1 Designs - plus a fair amount of scratch building.

 

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Thing to notice here are the two oerlikons just abaft 'B' turret. Not mentioned on the pontos plans but they were there at the end of 1943. I cut out the windows and replaced with clear sheet on both the compass platform and the admirals's bridge. Also notice the quite prominent aerials either side of the bridges.In the picture foreground, on the hull, is a sort of pump/vent/sluice cover thing. There are parts for this in the pontos set but they are the slighly shorter length found on the KGV so I made my own from brass

 

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The navlights were much more prominant in real-life than those molded on the kit. This is because they had seperate full strength and dimmed lamps vertically above each other.

 

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The radio shack - the small cabin that sits between the forward mast tripod legs - is much more complex than the plans suggest and sits on (and below) braces that hold the tripod together.

The Pontos pompoms are much too high so I used the brilliant, but very fiddly, Tetra version. I also added scratch built shielding that DoY had on hers.

 

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The oerlikon mounts had arcs of steel bar welded to the tubs to stop over enthusiastic gunners training them on anything important - like each other or the superstructure. All five of these tubs were washed overboard during a storm in the Arctic in December '43.

 

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Contra the intructions, each funnel searchlight has its own derrick. Note the spare 'kedge' anchor stowed against the aft superfiring 5.25 innch turret base.

 

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I hollowed out the Northstar searchlights and gave them silver insides and stuck a piece of clear plastic over.

 

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Just visible by the Walrus port wing is the catapult launch station with a vent on each side. This has to be scratch built. Also there is a large vent each side of the hangar, visible in the picture just abaft the forward, stbd, superfiring 5.25 inch gun turret. This also has to be scratch built

 

Also, just beside the aft funnel, you can see my scratchbuilt approximation of the extra oerlikon platforms placed on the engine vents sometime in '43. Most models miss these but they were unquestionably there. The ladders to reach them rise up between the platforms and funnel.

 

Also note the steel plate bolted to the funnels behind the searchlight postions. These can be found on both funnels. Their purpose is uncertain (to me anyway!).

 

Also note the two extra whalers kept on the catapult deck.

 

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Just before the Scharnhorst was engaged, the Duke of York had an addtional Type 285 radar fitted to the aft gun director. Also note the two oerlikons each side, just forward of 'x' turret and the addtional two on the boat deck.

 

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The bridge of the HMS Prince of Wales is not the same as the Duke of York. As it happens the Tamiya KGV has the right bridge layout (but the wrong boat deck). I adjusted mine to match. Also note the oerlikon layout on the fwd superstructure.

 

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Where the anchor chain goes through the deck to the chain locker there were special covers to keep (most of) the water out. Mine were made of lead foil. You can see a smaller version of the real thing on HMS Belfast. The catheads were also more sturdy that the pontos versions. I made my own.

 

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There has been an ongoing debate about the painted decks but what I have noticed from the pictures is that heavy seas - and use - quickly wore the paint away so I washed my pontos deck with diute grey stain to try and match that effect.

 

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As well as needeing way more carley floats than the kit supplies, there were also a great many 'flota nets' hanging off the sides or left in the floats. I made mine out of bundles of stretched sprue.

 

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I used the Trumpeter replacement brass screws intended for the Hood. These were, in reality, almost exactly the same size - and are better suited for rc purposes.

 

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You will need extra sets of 20mm oerlikons, watertight doors of various types - but pay attention the types used and places they appear do not follow the Pontos plans - and extra ladders. Finally the ladders to the mast head platforms do not attach to the outboard ends at the crazy angle shown, but were bolted firmly to the mast all the way up and access to the platform was through a small hatch.

 

Build log here: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/21989-battleship-hms-duke-of-york-by-gonzo-finished-late-1943/?tab=comments#comment-642806

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by sohoppy
mistake

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Amazing build. Can’t believe it’s a working model! Surely it’s too fragile for the open seas?

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I thought this was amazing work and then I read your description properly and realised it was even RC!

Crazily excellent work, thank you for sharing! 

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Amazing detail:yes:

 

beefy

 

 

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Worthy of being in a museum.  Excellent work.  I'm struggling to believe that it's only 1/350 - I've seen 1/96 KGVs with less detail.  BZ.

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I agree with all of the above - beautifully detailed - Radio control!!!!!!

BTW I couldn't find your thread imediately on the site and the link doesn't work.

I searched on HMS Duke of York.....?

Lovely work

Rob

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That’s a massive effort well done mate 😎

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Many thanks for all the very kind comments. It was indeed a lot of work - I don't even want to know how many hours went into it. Many passed just staring at old grainy photos and realising I had missed something. It amazes me that the information and pictures we have of these hugely impressive ships is so scattered, fragamented or even mis-attributed. Stranger still when you think that there are probably folks still with us who served on her and her sisters.

 

She is indeed rc. Most things I make are rc or have some kind of mechanical working features. You can see some of my other projects under 'Gonzo mechanic' on youtube. The whole superstructure lifts out, connected by the catapult deck or waist - which is reinforced. The joins are hidden by the fore/aft catapult rails. The lights are 0.25mm optic fibre and she has a couple of 12v locomotive steam things in the funnels. All that being said, doing anything inside like charging batteries is a slightly nerve-wracking faff and she will likely only make one or two 'voyages' for me to flim and then she can rest in her display box.

 

The build log - and evidence for some of the mods and additions - is here: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/21989-battleship-hms-duke-of-york-by-gonzo-finished-late-1943/

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Amazing workmanship.  Can’t decide whether to “like” the superb result or “thank you” for the loads of useful information.  
 

Think your interpretation of the deck planking colour is much closer to the look of a busy ship in wartime than the beautiful bleached teak we often see on models.

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21 hours ago, sohoppy said:

Also note the steel plate bolted to the funnels behind the searchlight postions. These can be found on both funnels. Their purpose is uncertain (to me anyway!).

Gidday Sohoppy, how hot do funnels get? I've not noticed those plates before, but they seem to be in the perfect position and a suitable size to be heat shields protecting the S/L crews. I noticed there appears to be a small air gap between the plates and the funnel's side. Pure guess-work on my part though. Your comments on the weathering effect of the deck planks sound very plausible to me.

     Your model is absolutely stunning. My limited grasp of the English language (I'm Orstraylian) prevents me from being more verbose, erudite and articulate, or from expounding more on your model's incredible detail.

     Regards, Jeff.

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Interesting idea. Ship funnels take and vent exhaust from a variety of auxiliary machinery as well as the engines - generators and so forth. But having seen these pictures from Evert-Jan Foeth's astonishing work on his site 'On the slipway' http://ontheslipway.com/?p=1535 I'm not sure the inside of a funnel could ever get hot enough to be an issue. It would depend on the precise location of the hottest flues within the stack, You can see the tops of these additional funnel exhaust vents in pictures of the Duke of York and her sisters - and my approximation of them on the model.

 

funnels_02.jpg

 

Seachlights on the other hand are also likely to be a 'bullet magnet' if ever used, so another alternative is that the positions have armour behind to protect generator flues or somesuch. Bit of a mystery really.

 

 

 

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First off, excellent model, look forward to seeing her maiden voyage

Unfortunately the build log you link to is only visible to members :sad:

Regarding the plating against the funnels around the searchlight positions, this is almost certainly to protect the crew from heat. Whilst holes in the funnel (except at the top!) are undesirable, it does vent to atmosphere so adding heavy armour plate so high up is even more undesirable for a stability point of view, for no practical gain.

The funnel uptake drawing you've used above is for HMS Dreadnought, and the whole of the internal space is boiler uptakes with 6 boilers (fwd funnel) and 12 boilers (aft funnel) exhausting into a common uptake. With all boilers fired up the gas temperature at the top of the funnel would be in the region of 150-200C. You will notice if you look carefully there is an air space (4.5") around the funnel uptake with an outer casing which flares out at the bottom (cravat) and stops short at the top of an angled cover/shield (hood). Air is drawn in under the cravat, is heated up by the funnel uptake, and rises to vent out of the top under the hood. This flow of air keeps the outer funnel casing (relatively) cool, but I'd venture to say that this outer casing would still be uncomfortably hot for crew members touching it, especialy in the mid to upper regions. The pipes fore and aft of the funnel are waste steam pipes (ie vents from boiler safety valves)

The link to Evert-Jan Foeths site mentions drawings of the internals of HMS Belfast's funnels. These are broadly similar in function (though of different cross section/plan), however they do differ in that the after most portion is plated off, leaving an enlarged triangular section of the outer casing which is used to route the auxilliary exhaust pipes to the top of the funnel, ie they are not inside the boiler funnel uptakes, but they are inside the outer funnel casing.

Looking at Duke of York drawings in both Raven/Roberts and Burt books on Battleships of WWII, the internal schematic drawings of both show a space between the forward and aft boiler uptakes in each funnel, and this is supported by photographs which show auxilliary exhausts out of the sides and tops of both funnels midway fwd/aft. There are also exhaust pipes at the forward end of the forward funnel, I'd expect there to be a similar space here between the funnel uptake and outer casing. Access into these spaces whilst the boilers were steaming would be theoretically possible, but would require protective clothing and would be uncomfortably hot. Access into the boiler uptake spaces seen in the drawing above would only be possible with the bilers shut down. The access ladders are for maintenance/inspection and installing canvas funnel cap covers (rarely used)

The funnel casings seen on modern ships contain separate insulated uptakes/exhaust pipes for each piece of machinery, and the casing is accessible whilst the machinery is running (but it can still be rather warm in there)

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Hi Dave, That sounds convincing to me and thanks for such a detailed and thoughtful reply.

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Superb build; really first class.  Thanks for sharing.

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Wonderful build - would you be looking forward to the Flyhawk 1/350 HMS Prince of Wales if it gets released soon ?

 

I am 

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Nice photos of the ship but I can’t see any of your model !!!

 

Truly blown away by her. Cracking and if Carlsberg made models .............

 

Thanks for showing. I’ve only seen this on a small screen and will visit again when on large screen pc

 

 

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Many thanks for the kind comments. One tends not to hear this sort of appreciation on the domestic front: 'Oh, not another model...'  Although my children quite like them.

 

I'll pass on the Flyhawk PoW - very good though I'm sure it will be. I have a Tamiya 1/350 KGV (Pacific appearance) partly underway but this will not likely be completed before next year as also have a large rc Trafalgar class to finish. These are quite demanding because, in the end, they need to come up as many times as they go down.

 

Meanwhile - right at the present - am grappling with whether it is in any way possible to make 1/35-scale fluid hydraulics actually work. I have a 1/35 Chieftain ARV (Tamiya / Accurate Armour) that needs repairs since the servos I originally fitted were overloaded and a few died. Will put some pics up here on the appropriate forum if - and that is quite a big 'if' - I can get the new system to work.

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If I saw your model in a museum, I guarantee I'd be ogling it for ages. Very nice. 

 

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