Belfast...

[rob85]

I’ve only built one ship and it didn’t go well, but as I promised I would if this GB got off the ground here I am.

 

I will be building Airfix’s HMS Belfast, which I though would be nice and easy, battleships are all grey right.... I was wrong.... all part of the experience! Pic’s etc to follow

 

Rob

[Robert Stuart]

1 hour ago, rob85 said:

I’ve only built one ship and it didn’t go well, but as I promised I would if this GB got off the ground here I am.

And there I was, hoping somebody would know what they were doing ...

1 hour ago, rob85 said:

I will be building Airfix’s HMS Belfast, which I though would be nice and easy, battleships are all grey right.... I was wrong.... all part of the experience! Pic’s etc to follow

Royal Navy, wartime colours?

Good luck Rob

[rob85]

49 minutes ago, Robert Stuart said:

And there I was, hoping somebody would know what they were doing ...

Royal Navy, wartime colours?

Good luck Rob

No I don’t have a clue about ships and I started the GB 😃 it’s all about collective learning..... I hope

 

Yeah going for the lovely looking but probably hard to paint war time scheme (I think that’s right) probably need to put an order into sovereign hobby’s.

 

Rob

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

 

Couple of points - I can't remember if Airfix modelled Belfast as she was during the war, or after - there were changes to the AA armament, radar and a number of other things. Secondly, as a light cruiser she probably had more than one camo scheme as they kept changing depending on where she was serving. The old White Ensign paint range was said to be very accurate and of course Sovereign Hobbies are now producing it. Jamie, their owner, has quite a lot of research info on RN colourschemes on the Sovereign Hobbies website as I recall, and as you say he also sells a wide range of paints for ships.

 

If you can get your hands on Profile Morskie Number 10 that has plans and a colour profile showing Belfast in 1942 in light/medium/and dark grey together with blue - OK it is in Polish but the plans and pics are self explanatory. Putnams Belfast in their "Anatomy of a Ship" is good and there is a certain amount on Belfast in the Osprey New Vanguard volume on British Light Cruisers of WWII. I have all 3 and will be happy to help if you PM any questions to me - as I said in my profile warships are one of my interests. Incidentally, you may not know that Belfast was heavily damaged by a German mine in November 1939 and did not return to service until December 1942 so any camo scheme must be from that date onwards.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited February 11, 2020 by PeterB

[Francis Macnaughton]

The Airfix  Belfast is reckoned to be a pretty good representation of the ship as at the Battle of North Cape in late 1943 and has the relatively complex camouflage scheme I assume you are concerned about.  She was in that scheme for the period from returning to service after the 1939 mining until commencing a refit for Far East service in July 1944.  If you really wanted a simpler scheme, you would probably be best to model her in the spring of 1945 as  the Pacific camouflage scheme was more straightforward (a single bar of darker colour on each side of the hull) but there were a lot of changes in AA armament etc.  Going back to the pre mining configuration would be more challenging as you would need to remove the side bulges that were added during the refit. 

 

If you do go for the as moulded configuration I would strongly recommend the White Ensign PE 615 set (not sure about a UK stockist though) which really sorts out things like the cranes and radar aerials that the original moulding could never match

[PeterB]

38 minutes ago, Francis Macnaughton said:

The Airfix  Belfast is reckoned to be a pretty good representation of the ship as at the Battle of North Cape in late 1943 and has the relatively complex camouflage scheme I assume you are concerned about.

Mine was quite an old boxing in plain grey as I recall - sounds like they have updated it. I bought it on HMS Belfast in London, and perhaps I got confused as I was probably thinking of modifiying it into the preserved configuration. The "new" White Ensign Models are selling a 1/600 etch set but it is ruddy expensive - $32 plus postage I believe.There may be cheaper versions about.

 

I might yet end up building a ship as well, if I can find where I put it.

 

Pete

Edited February 11, 2020 by PeterB

[rob85]

I will probably be building this straight out the box chaps, 1943 colours and all. But thank you chaps I like to get info on the kits I build!

 

i say box it’s actually in a bag with no decals (does it even have any?) or instructions! So will need to find them! It was given to me by a friend who does house clearings along with a number of other random kits.

 

Rob

[Francis Macnaughton]

26 minutes ago, rob85 said:

i say box it’s actually in a bag with no decals (does it even have any?) or instructions! So will need to find them!.

Sounds like one from a D-Day collection set rather than the individual boxed kit but the parts are the same.  There were never any decals.  I'll see if I have any copies of the instructions I can scan as I had one or two Belfasts as a sources of spare bits for other 1/600th conversions.

[PlaStix]

Hi Rob. Great idea for a build. I haven't built a model of a ship for many, many years. Think the last one I did make was an aircraft carrier but I can't remember which one.

Good luck with your build.

Kind regards,

Stix

[rob85]

1 hour ago, Francis Macnaughton said:

Sounds like one from a D-Day collection set rather than the individual boxed kit but the parts are the same.  There were never any decals.  I'll see if I have any copies of the instructions I can scan as I had one or two Belfasts as a sources of spare bits for other 1/600th conversions.

Yes I think your right, it did come in the big d-day box, but it was only Belfast and the two mosquito’s everything as was half finished old models and other random kits. If you do get chance to scan them that would be a great help.... I’m no flóki (for the Vikings viewers)

57 minutes ago, PlaStix said:

Hi Rob. Great idea for a build. I haven't built a model of a ship for many, many years. Think the last one I did make was an aircraft carrier but I can't remember which one.

Good luck with your build.

Kind regards,

Stix

Cheers stix, the last one I built flew out a window, so anything is an improvement! Glad to have you along

 

Rob

[Robert Stuart]

There are a few places that have instructions, early ones on Scalemates (https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airfix-04212-3-hms-belfast--222390 , instructions: https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/9/0/222390-92-instructions.pdf )

 

Superhobby, slightly newer: https://www.super-hobby.co.uk/products/HMS-Belfast.html

 

Neither give full colour details, google Airfix HMS Belfast, and go to images, several sites host full colour scans

[Black Knight]

HMS Belfast instructions, including a colour painting guide;

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/airfixtributeforum/viewtopic.php?f=280&t=28293

courtesy of the Airfix Tribute Forum

[JOCKNEY]

Wow Rob, a boat thats a ballsie choice if i may say so !

Actually how can you have a navy GB without some.

Will you be including Tower Bridge and the Tower of London in your diorama  ?

cheers Pat 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I'd suggest using the HMS Belfast profiles included with Conrad Waters' recent release on Town Class cruisers.

 

 

The illustrations were drawn using my colour coordinates and the schemes themselves had a lot of input from Richard Dennis who's guesses on RN camouflage are usually more robust than most other notorioused authors' definitive statements.

 

 

Profile Morskie has a good attempt at interpreting schemes for his publications but he's working from what he thinks he knows using some of the imperfect understandings associated with now-superceded original paint colour information. Likewise the old WEM era Royal Navy paints which everyone else copied are now discontinued too as there were too many errors to correct. It was better to scrap the whole lot and start again.

 

As for HMS Belfast now, the same health warning is given as applies to using aircraft in museums as a reference - make sure nobody has altered it in the mean time. With Belfast now she is altered. For reasons which sound sensible at a glance but are baseless with more than 3 seconds' thought, she is and has for many years now been painted in a fruit-salad of BS381C colours which would be fine except they don't look much like Royal Navy WW2 paints unless you normally feel around in front of you with a cane when walking to check there are no obstacles.

[rob85]

4 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

I'd suggest using the HMS Belfast profiles included with Conrad Waters' recent release on Town Class cruisers.

 

 

The illustrations were drawn using my colour coordinates and the schemes themselves had a lot of input from Richard Dennis who's guesses on RN camouflage are usually more robust than most other notorioused authors' definitive statements.

 

 

Profile Morskie has a good attempt at interpreting schemes for his publications but he's working from what he thinks he knows using some of the imperfect understandings associated with now-superceded original paint colour information. Likewise the old WEM era Royal Navy paints which everyone else copied are now discontinued too as there were too many errors to correct. It was better to scrap the whole lot and start again.

 

As for HMS Belfast now, the same health warning is given as applies to using aircraft in museums as a reference - make sure nobody has altered it in the mean time. With Belfast now she is altered. For reasons which sound sensible at a glance but are baseless with more than 3 seconds' thought, she is and has for many years now been painted in a fruit-salad of BS381C colours which would be fine except they don't look much like Royal Navy WW2 paints unless you normally feel around in front of you with a cane when walking to check there are no obstacles.

Thanks jamie, great info! I will be using that colour profile and your paints for this if all goes well!

 

Rob

[rob85]

So here we are..... the kit

 

 

There she is in all her bagged glory, and her she is out the bag!

 

so many little rafts! They are rafts right?

 

 

I know what that is, that’s flash!

and the only thing in my comfort zone

 

and it’s a bi plane! I won’t be rigging that!

 

Rob

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

 

Jamie is certainly the way to go for the paints but I gather he is in the middle of revising his RN colour range based on current research. His website shows both the dark and light greys - 507A and 507C to be exact, but watch out as he sells them in several different versions depending on the date - you need the ones covering late 1942 to mid 1944 when she was in that scheme. In July 1944 she went in for a refit ready for the Pacific, and did not re-enter service until I think April 1945 in a different simplified scheme. The Blues B5 and B6 may be a little more difficult as the site says B6 is discontinued so I don't know if he has any in stock or if he has replaced it with a different paint. As to B5 his research info on the site says it is now considered that this was the same colour as B15 and he sells it as NARN33 B5/B15. I dare say he will let us know if I am wrong. His articles on camo in the information section are well worth reading - nice one Jamie!

 

Pete

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by PeterB

[ArnoldAmbrose]

12 hours ago, rob85 said:

so many little rafts! They are rafts right?

Gidday Rob, they're Carley floats, but yeah, rafts. Did you have any luck with the instructions? Regards, Jeff.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

12 hours ago, PeterB said:

Hi Rob,

 

Jamie is certainly the way to go for the paints but I gather he is in the middle of revising his RN colour range based on current research.

 

 

Completed that in summer 2018 Peter

 

The two versions of 507A aren't so much date-dependent but are at the darkest and lightest tolerances recorded in the early war years; 10% and 13% LRV respectively. By mid/late war only the darker value was quoted.

 

We offer the lighter version more to appease people who really struggle to get their heads around the nuances of contemporary B&W photography and genuinely believe they're looking at "medium grey".

[PeterB]

5 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Completed that in summer 2018 Peter

 

The two versions of 507A aren't so much date-dependent but are at the darkest and lightest tolerances recorded in the early war years; 10% and 13% LRV respectively. By mid/late war only the darker value was quoted.

 

We offer the lighter version more to appease people who really struggle to get their heads around the nuances of contemporary B&W photography and genuinely believe they're looking at "medium grey".

Hi Rob,

 

As Jamie says, working from B&W photos can be a problem. In the Morskie profile it looks like there are 4 colours - a very light grey, a medium sort of grey and a very dark grey (almost black) together with what I assume is B5/B15 blue.  However Jamie's profile only seems to have dark and light grey plus one blue, though the blue on the bow may be a bit darker so maybe that is B6 as I am unclear what colour that actually is, and it may not be available anyway. I must confess I have not built any ships for a good few years so I thought he was still revising the range - usually only look at his aircraft and tank paints!

 

At least if I do my Sendai Class IJN light cruiser Jintsu it will just be in a dark grey, though there again which arsenal version to use is unclear as Jamie stocks 4 variants. Her last refit seems to have been at Kure so I guess they would have repainted her in their dark bluish grey version.

 

Best of luck with the build.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited February 15, 2020 by PeterB

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

The lighter blue on much of the ship is B6 which as intimated but not explicitly stated above was released in summer 2018 - it's NARN34. The B5 use is limited on Belfast in 1942, but is present on the bow and A turret. B5 is the darker of the two blues.

[PeterB]

Thanks for clarifying that Jamie.

 

Might be worth having a look at your web page because there seems to be a gap between NARN 33 and NARN 36, which is why I could not see NARN 34! Of course both my computer and I are getting old so perhaps it is just me.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited February 15, 2020 by PeterB

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Hi Peter. There's a gap but it starts at 34. I never released 35 in the end. 34 is there and available on 6 out of 6 sales "channels" on the webstore. Just checked  No harm in querying it though - Shopify does sometimes 'helpfully' changed product statuses and stock levels for me.

[PeterB]

Must be a computer thing Jamie as it is still not coming up when I search your web site. Not to worry.

 

Better let Rob have his thread back - sorry mate!.

 

Pete

Edited February 15, 2020 by PeterB

[rob85]

Ironically flooding has stopped me starting my ship.... who saw that coming?!

 

 

now a foot of water in the modelling dungeon 

 

Rob