giemme Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 Wow, guys thanks a lot. A great deal of info already, and Keith you're a star! @Wez, @stever219 and @TheBaron welcome on board! 3 hours ago, Wez said: Watching this with interest. The F.1/1A/2 had black cockpits and instrument panels, the T.4 being based on the F.1A would likewise have a black cockpit, these aircraft retained traditional gauges. The F.3 and later had OR.946 instrumentation which included tape type displays, the RAF called this instrumentation which was linked to the autopilot and radar the IFICS system, I was taught it in trade training back in 1984... The T.5 is based upon the F.3 and would have had the same instrumentation, cockpit colour was quoted as Dark Admiralty Grey although @tweeky is your man being an ex Lightning liney. Good suggestion! The F.2A really confuses the picture as AFAIK, when they were reworked they got partial OR.946 instrumentation, I believe the cockpit was left black except for those panels that were changed as part of the modification. I loved the Lightning as a youth but was put off of ever working on them when I joined the RAF thanks to the tales of woe the ex Lightning boys on their Fitters course recounted. 2 hours ago, stever219 said: It’s a little more complicated than that, the Mks. 1, 2 and 4 retained the old “basic six” instruments in the centre of the panel, from which they were displaced by the OR.946 display in the Mks. 2A, 3, 5 and 6. The former Mks were all in black and the latter in Dark Admiralty Grey. One other notable feature of the T. 5 is that the instructor’s throttles were on the right hand side of the cockpit. Wez and Steve, thank you for the hints, I think scratchbuilding a T4 IP might be feasible. 2 hours ago, stever219 said: There’s at least one other potential “gotcha” in the Sword kit: the lower fuselage cable ducts are the correct length for the T. 5 but will need shortening at the forward end for the T. 4, fetching up somewhere just in way of the missile pylons. Good point, I forgot to mention it in my previous posts; I found that out here on BM, I can't remember whose thread now, but anyway the cable ducts for the T4 are considerably shorter than the T5 ones. I'll post a link whenever I find it. 9 minutes ago, 71chally said: I can't quite follow this, but T.4 cockpit black, T.5 grey, I would just use the black instrument panel, no 8 on the PE. By the way I'm still building (well long time stalled) T.4 XM995 T of 92 Sqn, the amount of schemes that one jet wore is amazing. I didn't have any PE in my kit, it was the 56 Sqn boxing, so I made a plasticard panel with holes drilled out for the instruments and a photocopy of the actual instruments behind it. Thank for stopping by James - and for confirming the colors I think I'll compare the drawings Keith's posted, and see what I can come up with Ciao 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 42 minutes ago, 71chally said: I would just use the black instrument panel, no 8 on the PE. Isn't that just the backing for the T5 panel, number 1 on the fret? Keith 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTON Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Good job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 And I shortened the forward fuselage cable ducts, dead easy with a scalpel and small file. Never tried this on a phone, but this should link to my build thread, Hope it helps a little 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 I'd forgotten that thread James, did you ever finish them, they were coming along nicely? I'd also forgotten about the glitch with the nose and the 'solution' as mentioned by Sten Ekedahl in your thread; "As someone pointed out, the intake rim is not one of the strong points on the Sword kit. I found that an easy way to improve this is using the Quickboost resin nose ring instead. Although it is intended for the Trumpeter kit (IIRC), by removing a few mm from the front of the Sword kit, and attaching the Quickboost part, you'll get a far better result." I should have remembered as bought the Quickboost intake rings for all my kits! Keith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) I didn't go that route Keef as I got the ring seamless with a bit of work, but it does look a good way of doing things and adding nose weight of course. The project is how I left it there, house move to St Athan has happened since then and I've only just established a modelling space, so my Gutersloh pair could well be the first back on the desk. I did have some cockpit reference shots that I was working from, so will try and dig them out aswel. Just remembered the T.4 vent differences and mods, reading through that thread again. And, my memory must be going as my Sword kit does have the PE set, and I see I already mentioned the panel differences, doh! Without resorting to references I think I might be tempted to use the black PE panel. Edited February 10, 2020 by 71chally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Hello Giorgio !! Great choice !! I'll follow with great interest if you don't mind ! Mc Chouffe at the ready... I did my Lightning F-6 and used the Life color compass grey I searched for a while for interior pics of a lightning and finally found it on a South African web site A name like Thunder city or so I printed it but the result is poor, so you better look that way... It is a society in south Africa, they flown Buccaneer and apparently one or two Lightnings... If you need me, I'm at the bar beside @limeypilot and @perdu.. Sincerely. CC 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Aha! Found you at last, this is like one of Ced’s builds, two pages in less than 24 hours. Lots of useful information already, I would only add that I agree with Keith ( and you ) on the ‘photo of XS458 being of a restored aircraft, it looks painted rather than NMF to me. Following closely. John PS on the subject of the intake rim, Aeroclub produced one in white metal many years ago along with the radar ‘ bullet ‘ for added nose weight. It might be worth putting something on the ‘ wanted ‘ thread in case anyone still has one, I’m afraid I’m planning to use both of mine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 9 hours ago, 71chally said: Hope it helps a little It sure does, thank you! 8 hours ago, 71chally said: I did have some cockpit reference shots that I was working from, so will try and dig them out aswel. That would be great! 8 hours ago, corsaircorp said: Hello Giorgio !! Great choice !! I'll follow with great interest if you don't mind ! Mc Chouffe at the ready... I did my Lightning F-6 and used the Life color compass grey I searched for a while for interior pics of a lightning and finally found it on a South African web site A name like Thunder city or so I printed it but the result is poor, so you better look that way... It is a society in south Africa, they flown Buccaneer and apparently one or two Lightnings... If you need me, I'm at the bar beside @limeypilot and @perdu.. Sincerely. CC Welcome on board, CC! Thanks for the heads up on the interior pics, I'll try that! 1 hour ago, Biggles87 said: Aha! Found you at last, this is like one of Ced’s builds, two pages in less than 24 hours. Lots of useful information already, I would only add that I agree with Keith ( and you ) on the ‘photo of XS458 being of a restored aircraft, it looks painted rather than NMF to me. Following closely. John PS on the subject of the intake rim, Aeroclub produced one in white metal many years ago along with the radar ‘ bullet ‘ for added nose weight. It might be worth putting something on the ‘ wanted ‘ thread in case anyone still has one, I’m afraid I’m planning to use both of mine. Thanks John, and welcome on board The way things are going, I think I'll try adapting the PE IP for a T4 version and build the 111 Squadron scheme that comes with the kit, so I'll probably just ignore XS458. Probably... And for the intake rim, I'll see what I can do with the kit one first - thanks for the heads up anyway Ciao 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 8 hours ago, 71chally said: I didn't go that route Keef as I got the ring seamless with a bit of work, I was thinking more about it last night James and I'd bought the Quickboost rings as I'd read somewhere that the problem with the Sword nose was it's too short and just sticking the QB part on 'cured' that. Which got me thinking as to why Sten mentioned cutting the kit nose back before adding the QB bit - seems to defeat the object... Of course I've no idea where I read the suggestion of the too short nose in the first place! (on here somewhere I'd guess) K 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Crikey, this thread has taken off like… well you know what! I'll creep in at the back. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) I hope these work for you @giemme, T.4 PNs cockpit pictures courtesy of Scott Bouch, https://twitter.com/scottbouch/status/758983246621265920/photo/1 https://twitter.com/scottbouch/status/758983246621265920/photo/2 https://twitter.com/scottbouch/status/758983246621265920/photo/3 As you can see it is a very different layout to the T.5, with canopy shut and a busy cockpit you might get away with using the PE, but otherwise it's a new panel. Also note the two Pilot Attack Sights each side of the AI radar scopes. Edited February 10, 2020 by 71chally 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 34 minutes ago, keefr22 said: I was thinking more about it last night James and I'd bought the Quickboost rings as I'd read somewhere that the problem with the Sword nose was it's too short and just sticking the QB part on 'cured' that. Which got me thinking as to why Sten mentioned cutting the kit nose back before adding the QB bit - seems to defeat the object... Of course I've no idea where I read the suggestion of the too short nose in the first place! (on here somewhere I'd guess) K I need to dig my kits out again, but I thought they were both the same length. Again from memory, the Sword nose ring is good and one piece, it's the Airfix one which is split but it didn't take too much time to clean up. The Lightning kits are pretty easy to weight anyhow, I loaded the nose bullet with gunshot and a bit of lead behind the cockpit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Hi Giorgio, Great choice of subject and it looks like some good advice coming through! I have a Sword Lightning in my stash, but mine is slightly different boxing: Although the box suggests just T5, inside it looks identical to yours and certainly contains all parts for a T4 and identical etch to yours. Will follow with interest. Terry 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 Thanks for joining, Terry 34 minutes ago, Terry1954 said: Although the box suggests just T5, inside it looks identical to yours and certainly contains all parts for a T4 and identical etch to yours. The point is, as you may also find out if you browse through James's @71challybuild, that the whole kit is actually based on a T5, and the etch fret is only good for that. My boxing includes a propre tail fin for a T4 (I don't know about yours) and needs some remedial work to turn it into a T4. It's gonna be a lot of fun! 4 hours ago, CedB said: Crikey, this thread has taken off like… well you know what! I'll creep in at the back. Welcome to you too, Ced I believe there's still room in the front seats, though 15 hours ago, HOUSTON said: Good job. Cheers Houston, thanks Ciao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 5 hours ago, 71chally said: I hope these work for you @giemme, T.4 PNs cockpit pictures courtesy of Scott Bouch, https://twitter.com/scottbouch/status/758983246621265920/photo/1 https://twitter.com/scottbouch/status/758983246621265920/photo/2 https://twitter.com/scottbouch/status/758983246621265920/photo/3 As you can see it is a very different layout to the T.5, with canopy shut and a busy cockpit you might get away with using the PE, but otherwise it's a new panel. Also note the two Pilot Attack Sights each side of the AI radar scopes. Great stuff, thank you James! Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Wowa!! Page two already. As for colours I have absolutely no idea but you knew I’d say that. Either way I’m sure you’ll make it look splendid. I’ll sneak in around the side if that’s ok. Jont. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, keefr22 said: I was thinking more about it last night James and I'd bought the Quickboost rings as I'd read somewhere that the problem with the Sword nose was it's too short and just sticking the QB part on 'cured' that. Which got me thinking as to why Sten mentioned cutting the kit nose back before adding the QB bit - seems to defeat the object... Of course I've no idea where I read the suggestion of the too short nose in the first place! (on here somewhere I'd guess) K I recall one of the Sword Lightnings was a bit short on length was that the F.1/2 or the T.4/5? Can somebody confirm please? FWIW, I've succumbed and bought one of these anyway. Edited February 10, 2020 by Wez 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Wez said: I recall one of the Sword Lightnings was a bit short on length was that the F.1/2 or the T.4/5? Can somebody confirm please? I'm pretty sure it's just the T-birds, the single seaters are OK I believe. (I think I remember checking the single sticks against the new Airfix kit when they came out and they were the same - that presumes of course that the Airfix kit is the right length) Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 hours ago, The Spadgent said: Wowa!! Page two already. As for colours I have absolutely no idea but you knew I’d say that. Either way I’m sure you’ll make it look splendid. I’ll sneak in around the side if that’s ok. Jont. Welcome John! 1 hour ago, Wez said: FWIW, I've succumbed and bought one of these anyway. Ooops... 1 minute ago, keefr22 said: I'm pretty sure it's just the T-birds, the single seaters are OK I believe. (I think I remember checking the single sticks against the new Airfix kit when they came out and they were the same - that presumes of course that the Airfix kit is the right length) Keith Been trying to find some reliable drawings to compare with the kit - no joy yet Ciao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) I've just dug out an Airfix F2, Sword F3 and Sword T5 - measured (approximately!) through the center of the fuselage, nose to jetpipe the Airfix and Sword F3 are 19.4 cm, the Sword T4 just over 19cm Keith Edited February 10, 2020 by keefr22 Muppetry in decimalisation 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 You mean centimetres Keith, right? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Well done G, you passed the test.... (I've only just learnt feet and inches...!!) K 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob85 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Are you regretting building one of the most iconic British jets, on a British modelling forum that has that jet in their logo? 😃 I’m joking. Great choice, I really like the 111 scheme, but would have gone with 92 just because I like the squadron. Am I missing something? (Probably) what’s wrong with just modelling the restored T5 XS458 In the 111 squadron colours it’s shown in... you would still be modelling a real aircraft and would save yourself some work? Anyway, tips on how to display it once it’s finished? I think this is a good choice 😃 rocket ship style. Rob 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, rob85 said: Are you regretting building one of the most iconic British jets, on a British modelling forum that has that jet in their logo? 😃 Not really, I was actually counting on that, to gather as much references as possible And I'm a bit of a glutton for punishment, you may say .... 13 minutes ago, rob85 said: Am I missing something? (Probably) what’s wrong with just modelling the restored T5 XS458 In the 111 squadron colours it’s shown in... you would still be modelling a real aircraft and would save yourself some work? I haven't ruled that out completely, but in that case I should represent it a almost pristine, no weathering at all - not a bad thing per se, just one aspect to consider Ciao 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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