Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

melvyn hiscock

Hunter F3 Record configuration

Recommended Posts

At the moment, I am only toying with the idea, but how feasible is a conversion of any available Hunter kit into the F3 record breaking version. I know there are changes to the nose and the screen, for the attempt at least now, I have the actual Hunter about 20 minutes away at Tangmere, but there was also reheat, Sapphire engine...

 

is this a silly idea?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, melvyn hiscock said:

 

is this a silly idea?

 

 

Nope, quite possible

 

A quick look on the web will find you some conversion sets in 1/72 and also 1/48 too, at least I think you can get it in 1/48 as well. (Had a look and maybe not in 1/48)

 

Wolfpack and also Pavla for 1/72 scale

 

I had a look at doing this in 1/32 a while back. Now I look again I think 1/48 needs be scratched but looking at the 1/72 sets it’s not too hard and gives you an idea of what’s required 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JohnR has recently done this and there is a good thread on it here,

 

It was a reheated Avon engine I think though.

Edited by 71chally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies. I can’t do 1/72 as my fingers won’t allow it (such a Captain Klutz), so I  was hoping for 48th at least.

 

i May just do one of his Tomahawks instead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, melvyn hiscock said:

Thanks for the replies. I can’t do 1/72 as my fingers won’t allow it (such a Captain Klutz), so I  was hoping for 48th at least.

 

i May just do one of his Tomahawks instead

You could maybe upscale to 1/32 as the work does not look too tricky?  The Revel Hunter is a nice build in 1/32 and they are not too expensive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It must be worth a go. It would be good to find some drawings as I am ok on WW1 and some WW2 but know next to naff all about a jets. 

 

The Revell Hunter, if cheap enough, is a thought but I think I’m right in having to alter the wing as well as the rear fuselage.

 

Does anyone know of any sites that might have drawings? I have googled, but found nothing yet.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, melvyn hiscock said:

The Revell Hunter, if cheap enough, is a thought but I think I’m right in having to alter the wing as well as the rear fuselage.

 

 

 

I think I am right in saying that if you get the F6 box and not the FGA9 box the wing is ok.  The later FGA9 had the dog tooth extension.

 

There are conversion sets available to back date the FGA 9 kit though.  David Parkins at Flightpath does a lovely set but with lots of etch as well  for the cockpit which may not be your thing - and its a bit pricey just for the wings conversion on their own.

 

There are discussions on here and also on Large Scale Planes site about the backdating works required.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The F6 also had the dog tooth - I'd suggest the new Airfix 1/48 F4 might be a good starting point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, iainpeden said:

The F6 also had the dog tooth

a look at the Revell 32nd kit online shows the dogtooth is a separate part though. 

@StephenMG  is our Hunter expert IIRC, and could perhaps advise more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/8/2020 at 12:38 PM, melvyn hiscock said:

At the moment, I am only toying with the idea, but how feasible is a conversion of any available Hunter kit into the F3 record breaking version. I know there are changes to the nose and the screen, for the attempt at least now, I have the actual Hunter about 20 minutes away at Tangmere, but there was also reheat, Sapphire engine...

 

is this a silly idea?

 

 

In addition to the pointed nose and extended windscreen you would also need to add the air intake under the fuselage. This is situated in about the same place as the air brake on standard Hunters. In addition the rear fuselage needs to be modified to allow the afterburner installation.

 

If you live 20 minutes from Tangmere why not go there and have close look at the real thing. I am a guide there so if you visit on a Monday ( not 17 Feb) or Sat 22Feb I will be there and very happy to show the record breaker.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, thanks. I may well do that. 

 

I have been in a few times, David Baron kindly used to invite me from time to time, especially if Gwen Duke was there, because if my connection to Neville, as I not only knew him through seeing him at various flying things, actually managing to get him to agree to do my Flying Visit series in Aeroplane (a story in itself), but I had been flying at Popham on the day when he had his final incident and Dick Richardson, the Popham manager, had asked me to go to the hospital to make sure they were ok, as it was thought he’d had only had a heart attack.  Dick knew they didn’t used to carry much in the way of money with them when they flew, and they might need a lift somewhere or a sub. I got to Basingstoke hospital just as they transferred him to Chertsey, and it was clear it was going to be a long night. I drove to Chertsey and had problems getting in as I was not a relative, but blagged my way in. I then drove Gwen back to Bournemouth where her car was parked. That was an interesting drive. I was trying to make it as stress free as I could and whilst I knew Gwen, I didn’t know her as well as Neville. 

 

The following day Dick and I realised we needed to empty the Grumman to stop anything being stolen, especially as, for some reason, I remember not being able to lock it. I took out the headsets, flight bag and the one thing I remember was Neville’s aluminium knee pad. All of that was safely got out and into Dick’s office.

 

I visited Gwen a few times afterwards (always the best chocolate biscuits!) but sadly lost touch when I lost my parents and started getting ill myself. That was a shame as she was lovely and, as an ex-WREN had some great stories about her time at Lee on Solent. I would usually give David Baron a call after I’d seen Gwen as he was her official next of kin.

 

At the 2007 Dunsfold show we did a tribute to Neville with Charlie Brown in BM597 and Jonathan Whaley in ‘Miss Demeanor’ (it was flown superbly) and Gwen was there as guest of honour. I chatted to her briefly before and told her we’d be saying nice things but to be ready with a tissue just in case, and as a result of that Gwen asked me to read a poem at the memorial service at St Clement Danes. 

 

This was a BIG do, and there were to be three eulogies. Air Chief Marshall Sir Michael Graydon was to give the address and covered Neville’s RAF career, the test Flying was covered by none other than Peter Twiss, and the third would be Neville the private pilot. Someone had been asked but for whatever reason it was decided, with less than 48 hours to go, that I should do it as Gwen had appreciated my commentary on the flypast at Dunsfold. That was a tough gig.

 

On the morning of the service my dad (ex Royal Marine D-Day veteran) was rushed to hospital and not expected to make more than a day or two. There was nothing I could do, and I had committed, so off I went.

 

Dad did recover from that one (and made another five years) but in hospital with him a couple of days later he asked me ‘did you do Neville’s memorial?’, so I told him I had, and he gave me one of ‘those’ looks that only your dad can give you and said ‘Good, they could have taken me out of here in a box, but I didn’t want you missing that one, remember he was MY hero as well’.

 

Coming from my dad that was high praise, but Neville was what you want you heroes to be. I am very fortunate to have got to know him just well enough to be on first name terms, and it was a shame we didn’t fly as he was very interested in the Rearwin Cloudster I had, we just didn’t get around to flying together.

 

So waffling on, late at night, as I sometimes do, I thought i’d explain why I have a bit of a Neville Duke modelling thing going on. The Tamiya Spitfire VIII I am currently painting will be JG241, which he told me ‘I rather liked that one’ and I think that’ll go in a case with my copy of his war diaries. 

 

At Dunsfold (and mentioned on here somewhere before) Gwen gave me Neville’s own commemorative mug for the 25th anniversary of the world speed record flight. It sort of needs to be in a case with a big red Hunter.

 

So, thanks very much for your offer, I’ll drop you a message and arrange a time to come over. Being medically retired we can choose a less busy day for the visit.

 

Melvyn

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melvin,

I think that this is the one you mentioned

John

p?i=fcf194f0caa2cf85f43a33d1705e0cdc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is the one. One of the highlights of my commentary career. Brendan O’Brien has a reputation for being a bit, forward, but he said to me before this ‘this one’s all yours Melv’, and left me to it. He is a good man to work with.

 

I had a lump in my throat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melvyn - what an interesting story after a very sad time. I await a PM from you to agree a date to see WB188.  If it helps I see that Pavla do a 1/72 scale conversion for the F3 including the pointed nose and extended canopy. But I think that they have made a mistake if it is intended to be the record breaker as at Sept 1953, as it includes the clamshell airbrakes on the rear fuselage - as is the case on WB188 now. There is a photo of Neville in WB188 presumably taken just after the record breaking run which quite clearly shows that these airbrakes were not in place at the time of the run. I believe (and of course I could be wrong)  that the clamshell airbrakes were added at a later date when Hawkers were investigating where the airbrake on the Hunter should be placed, before deciding on the under fuselage site.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John,

I went into all of the above when I produced my Mk 3. There are several differences between the current state and the way it was in 1953.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct about the airbrakes not being fitted until after the record runs, also worth noting that the underwing serials were white, the Wolfpack F.3 conversion has them in black.

It's a shame that the Flight Archive is currently offline as it was a good resource for looking at WB188 at that time frame.

 

To convert the the Revell 1:32 kit would be bloomin hard work, you would have to be good with balsa, vacforming and Miliput, unless you have a good resin working set up.

I would agree with Troy that the Airfix Hunter F.4 would be the easier starting point but would still need a lot of work for the nose, windscreen and jet pipe areas.

There are the Wolfpack (underwing decals in black, should be white) and Pavla conversion sets to create the F.3 from the 1:72 Revell kit, and that is the easiest option.  

Or do what @John R has done beautifully with his.

 

I'm really hoping that @Ali62 Aerocraft Models or someone could provide a well thought out F.3 conversion set for the Airfix 1:48 Hunter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 71chally said:

 

 

I'm really hoping that @Ali62 Aerocraft Models or someone could provide a well thought out F.3 conversion set for the Airfix 1:48 Hunter.

 

all prototypes and F3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever I do will need nose, canopy, spine, airbrakes, intake under the fuse, jet pipe and wing leading edge, which looking at it is not to hard on the F6 boxing. 

 

I do have a little background in working with my hands 

 

It is also easier in 32nd for my fingers. My last 48th was the Eduard Spitfire IX and I struggled with some bits. 

 

I am still looking king for drawings. Some parts may be 3D printable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, melvyn hiscock said:

Whatever I do will need nose, canopy, spine, airbrakes, intake under the fuse, jet pipe and wing leading edge, which looking at it is not to hard on the F6 boxing. 

 

I do have a little background in working with my hands 

 

I am still looking king for drawings. Some parts may be 3D printable

 

You won't need any airbrakes or the underside intake, and unless I'm missing something the spine, but yes quite a list.

 

Be interesting to see this project develop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No airbrakes was a typo. The spine will need extending for the shorter canopy. Possible intake underneath mentioned elsewhere 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cant make out an extra intake here, but maybe it's one of the flush mounted types,

 

Edited by 71chally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, it's under the fuselage and does not stick out. It's a flush NASA type. Have a look at the underside of my model

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, melvyn hiscock said:

Whatever I do will need nose, canopy, spine, airbrakes, intake under the fuse, jet pipe and wing leading edge, which looking at it is not to hard on the F6 boxing. 

 

I do have a little background in working with my hands 

 

It is also easier in 32nd for my fingers. My last 48th was the Eduard Spitfire IX and I struggled with some bits. 

 

I am still looking king for drawings. Some parts may be 3D printable

Hi Melvyn,

 

You've nailed it there I think - add pointy nose cone, shorten hood (although the back edge has an extra 'bit' at the bottom rear corner so isn't just a case of cutting it short), extend and reshape the spine (longer and slightly more bulbous than production Hunter), reshape tail cone/jet pipe, cut out under-fuse intake, remove L/E extensions. There's fair bit of work there but it's not too bad. There's also the extended windscreen if going for the actual record attempt config.

 

The spine/hood thing is often forgotten as it was only present on the first 2 prototypes before it was modified to the more familiar hood length. I believe this was in response to criticism of the rearward view during early testing.

 

I've never seen any drawings but this is the side view I did for the SAM Modeller's Datafile if it's any use. Probably not perfect but was the best I could do 11 years ago!

spacer.png

 

This is a photo of the shorter hood,

spacer.png

 

A photo (very kindly supplied to me by @jaw) of the intake under the rear fuselage,

spacer.png

 

Mark

 

P.S. I've had your wonderful 'Make Your Own Electric Guitar' book on my shelf for decades but still haven't plucked up the courage to give it a go!!! One day...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark, thanks for this, and thanks for the mention of the guitar book. 

 

That side view view is great. I am slowly gathering the info. This really only started as a ‘what if’ idea, but has sort of growed a bit. Like another project I did once (well, actually three times!)

 

I sort if feel I have to do this now. The current modelling frenzy is partly down to dealing with this cancer. A very, very good friend suggested meditation and it has certainly turned his life around. The thing is, I cannot turn off all my brain, but the modelling is helping no end in that regard. Somehow everything I seem to be modelling has a link to my life, which is great. I’ve been involved with the a Memorial Flight Association in France for over 30 years, so WW1 is a big thing for me and Caroline (utterly fab Mrs Hiscock) bought me a WNW Camel as she liked the look of it. That has two 54sq options and I have a diary upstairs of a 54 sq Camel pilot, and these would have been flying at the time. I need to check for the names.

 

I have mentioned the Duke connection, and JG241 is waiting markings upstairs courtesy of some more very kind people on here, as Neville told me it was his favourite Spitfire and I needed an excuse to make the Tamiya Spitfire VIII anyway! Next up is the WNW Albatros DVa as the striped ‘Bavarian’ one as this is a Memorial Flight project and we have the remains of the actual aeroplane (5 of the 6 cylinders would have been good enough to be reused!, and we found Prussian blue paint drips on the engine where the stripes were brush painted) , yesterday the WNW Gnome Pup arrived and that will be Harold Balfour’s School of Special Flying runabout (another striped aeroplane though), as I went to school in Gosport and my grandfather used to watch the flying, and as a (now sadly lapsed PPL) my training syllabus was worked out in the Alverbank Hotel, next door to school, and the importance of Smith Barry and the School of Special Flying is now often overlooked. 

 

I do need WNW to do a SPAD XIII, as 4377, our one in France,has been such an influential part of my life, and I may try the Brigade Spit T9 conversion as SM520 as someone got very lucky on his 61st birthday. All connected!

 

So, it looks like you have left me no choice. We have arranged to go in ourselves to see WB188 in a week or so, which again is down to generosity of people in here, and I think the Revell Hunter may be on order within days...

 

There is news in the guitar making book too. At the time of my diagnosis (2016) I had largely rewritten it. Since then I have managed, between operations and a LOT of drugs, to get all the new photos taken and get it to final proof stage with a target release date is this autumn. 

 

I may also be doing some more aviation writing. I have to be careful with how much I do, some days start as a write off, but I think the red Hunter, in a case with the commemorative 25th anniversary mug just has to happen now.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melvyn - pm sent

 

A couple of other things to watch are the canopy width and it is easy to get the anhedral wrong. Discussed here

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...