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Phantom FGR.2 reinforcement plates


Giorgio N

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6 minutes ago, 71chally said:

No need for sorry Dennis, I'm sure you could produce a book with your knowledge, work and photographs!

Hang slack James - I have just found a photo that may confirm the upper surface plates - I'll be back !!

 

Dennis

 

Right - bit big but:-

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Opinions ? - I think a possible maybe

 

Dennis

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1 hour ago, sloegin57 said:

Hang slack James - I have just found a photo that may confirm the upper surface plates - I'll be back !!

 

Dennis

 

Right - bit big but:-

 

 

Opinions ? - I think a possible maybe

 

Dennis

 

Dennis,

the presence of reinforcement plates on the upper surfaces of grey Phantoms is confirmed by many pictures of such aircraft. A very good detail picture is in Aeroguide 13 (published in 1986), that shows the same shape of those in the Fujimi kit.

Now this of course raises one more question: were these plates part of Modification 28 or were added at a later stage ? As you say the drawings posted by John do not seem to show such plates.

Speaking of other variants, I've seen the same plates on the upper wings panels of USN Phantoms too

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That first photo of XT901 is interesting, as it later became part of my old squadron ( 17 ) based at Bruggen, and as far as I remember during my time there ( Dec. 1971 - June 1974 ) I don't recall any reinforcing plates being fitted, especially the under fuselage one. HTH:cheers:

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15 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

What however I may do is to paint the areas where the crack checks were carried out ! Now would they have been left in natural metal or would they have been repainted after the inspection ?

 

From what I remember they were left in natural metal, photos of a line up of aircraft could confirm that. I do remember having to strip the paint off on at least one occasion though but I don't think that was the norm (but it was a long time ago so I think checking photos would be better confirmation).

 

Duncan B

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5 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

From what I remember they were left in natural metal, photos of a line up of aircraft could confirm that. I do remember having to strip the paint off on at least one occasion though but I don't think that was the norm (but it was a long time ago so I think checking photos would be better confirmation).

 

Duncan B

 

2 minutes ago, canberra kid said:

If the Canberra is anything to go by then they would have left unpainted for ease of inspection.

John

Sorry Giorgio, should have replied earlier - What they both said - unpainted but I used to put a coating of lanolin over depending on the frequency of the inspection (mine was on Victors and Harriers)

 

Dennis

 

 

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Dedicated Spey Phantom Thread - 100%.

 

There is an element of Guessology about this post but please bear with me.

 

As a volunteer at Duxford I can get close and dirty to the exhibits and can often get quite handy details. As such I can confirm that both XV474 (FGR.2) and 155529/ZE359 (F-4J - really an S without the slats) both have the reinforcing plates on the outer wing panels.

 

However, the plot thickens a bit because XV474 is displayed with wings folded which gave me the chance to have a very close look at the plates, their positioning and the wing fold mechanism. From the photos you may be able to make out the following: on the inner face of the outer panel is essentially a U-shaped bracket which has a metal ring on it's base - the ring appears to be a fastening for a spigot which slips into it once the outer wing is locked for flight. The ring can be seen to the right of the red locking bar.  (Photo 1) On the upper and lower panels the U shaped bracket appears to fit over the reinforcing straps.

 

My speculation is that what appears to be a 3 part reinforcement - brackets and upper and lower wing straps is actually linked to strengthening the wing fold mechanism.

 

The U shaped bracket is bolted to the inner face of the outer wing panel.

 

 

49509175073_f0d00b8f98_z.jpg20200208_113154 by Iain Peden, on Flickr

 

 

 

49509683356_3bffec9260_z.jpg20200208_113100 by Iain Peden, on Flickr

 

 

49509175508_7d2683a2e0_z.jpg20200208_113041 by Iain Peden, on Flickr

 

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18 hours ago, Anthony in NZ said:

We need a dedicated Spey Phantom thread!

There is one here somewhere which John posted loads of AP extracts, and Dennis lots of photos and info, same for the Victor and Buccaneer.

The problem seems to be that a dedicated thread gets started and then forgotten, and then various new threads start on the same subject, and they all eventually get lost in the digital ether.

Some other forums tend to merge these various threads together, but that can lead to various issues on readability etc.

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On 2/8/2020 at 10:02 AM, Duncan B said:

From what I remember they were left in natural metal, photos of a line up of aircraft could confirm that. I do remember having to strip the paint off on at least one occasion though but I don't think that was the norm (but it was a long time ago so I think checking photos would be better confirmation).

 

Duncan B

 

On 2/8/2020 at 10:06 AM, canberra kid said:

If the Canberra is anything to go by then they would have left unpainted for ease of inspection.

John

 

On 2/8/2020 at 10:11 AM, sloegin57 said:

 

Sorry Giorgio, should have replied earlier - What they both said - unpainted but I used to put a coating of lanolin over depending on the frequency of the inspection (mine was on Victors and Harriers)

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

Thanks to all, natural metal will be then ! I now have no excuse to delay the build, will start a WIP soon, either in the general section or in the "they also served" group build.

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1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Folks, some more great stuff posted here, thanks for sharing ! Those pictures will be very useful to superdetail the area.

Giorgio, when you come to super detail for absolute accuracy make sure all the slots in the screwheads do not line up. Such shoddy work from the fitters!

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53 minutes ago, iainpeden said:

Giorgio, when you come to super detail for absolute accuracy make sure all the slots in the screwheads do not line up. Such shoddy work from the fitters!

....and not all the screwheads were actually screws either!! Several times I ended up on my chin on top of the wing when trying to loosen a 'fastener' only to find that someone previously had knackered the anchor bolt so had faked a fastener with 2 pack epoxy and paint (little wonder they needed strengthening plates). When you are expecting to apply 'He Man' levels of torque to undo something and it comes away like putty (literally) then all that force is going to send you spinning.

 

Duncan B

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5 hours ago, Duncan B said:

....and not all the screwheads were actually screws either!! Several times I ended up on my chin on top of the wing when trying to loosen a 'fastener' only to find that someone previously had knackered the anchor bolt so had faked a fastener with 2 pack epoxy and paint (little wonder they needed strengthening plates). When you are expecting to apply 'He Man' levels of torque to undo something and it comes away like putty (literally) then all that force is going to send you spinning.

 

Duncan B

Sorry but I may have been one of those people who glued a screwhead into position, although I did not work on the FG1 Major team. But it was a real pain when fitting either panel 111 (I think) on the outer wings or the two spine panel when you get to the last one or two and the anchor nut goes. You really do not want to take back out the other hundred or so screws to fit that anchor nut, probably only to find that another one will go when you refit the panel, yet again the last one or two.

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14 hours ago, Anthony in NZ said:

Brilliant and informative discussion guys....keep it coming!  

 

Now that questions been answered, can we ask another?  Just wondering what the seat differences were from the std US Navy ones?  Different harness I suspect?

Some stuff on the British seat, I'll dig out the American stuff tomorrow.

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John

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1 hour ago, Billy54 said:

Let me echo the thanks that others have already made to those contributing to this thread. Especially @canberra kid I have always appreciated the drawings you have posted and just want to say Thank You.

 

1 hour ago, Anthony in NZ said:

Thanks so much, Another great set of drawings.  I am guessing there wasn't a lot of differences?

Thank you both for your kind comments always glad to help out if I can.

 

John

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