So what's actually wrong with Special Hobby's Spitfire XII?

[ReccePhreak]

On 2/4/2020 at 10:28 AM, Troy Smith said:

 

If this bother s you, the fix is a couple of splices.

Does the below help?  this is the SH Searfire III next to an Airfix Vb,  (the rudder to firewall are the same length on all Spitfires except perhaps the 22/24) so this applies to the SH XII

 

Airfix vs SH cut fillet align IMG_0450 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

the front splice will move the wing forward, and add the length missing, and the other in front of the tail.  Do this an it's now the right length, and just a little trim at the rear of the wing fillet.  look at the part behind the white strip.  I laid this out carefully on the cutting mat so the horizontal and vertical lines are aligned.  

I used Evergreen plastic strip for the front splice,  as it's already square and makes adding the length easy.  I'll search up the thread with more details if you need.

 

The Sh kits get a lot of bad press,  I have carefully compared most of the 1/48th kits,  with know dimensions and reputable plans.  There's reams  of internet tosh about Spitfie kits, just hard sorting through it.  The Sh XII kit has the above faults, the linked thread discusses the Airfix XII faults, there are a lot more

HTH

Looking at that picture raises a question. How much is each added splice? 

On 2/4/2020 at 12:20 PM, Vlad said:

Aha, got it! Thanks Troy, that's exactly what I needed to see. Now to decide if I can ignore it.

Looking at the pictures, and the fact that I have already started on the interior of my kits makes me leaning toward the "Just ignore it" crowd.

Larry

[Troy Smith]

On 16/02/2020 at 14:40, ReccePhreak said:

How much is each added splice? 

Looking at the pictures, and the fact that I have already started on the interior of my kits makes me leaning toward the "Just ignore it" crowd.

Your model Larry.  Despite much wailing and gnashing off teeth, it's not a major glitch.   The oddest thing is some folks moan about the SH kits, but have build the considerably more flawed Airfix XII with minor griping.  Modellers.  funny bunch.

 

The lines on the cutting mat are 1cm blocks, the splice are about 1.5 mm each.  The front one is the harder one to do, as it makes more messing about, but  the tail is easy, and allows the slightforward angle of the fin to be adjusted back though,  which may add to the 'rear ended' look Bruce mentions.

 

HTH  

Edited April 13, 2020 by Troy Smith
spelling

[Mike]

3 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Despite much wailing and gnashing off teeth, it's not a major glitch. 

 

3 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Modellers.  funny bunch.

You're not wrong on either count

 

it's nice to see an aircraft that often evokes such negative aspects of the hobby being discussed in such a calm, reasonable manner.  Lots of good stuff from Troy and the others

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, Mike said:

it's nice to see an aircraft that often evokes such negative aspects of the hobby being discussed in such a calm, reasonable manner.

Thanks Mike.

 

There is a lot of tosh spouted on various models,  but far too often hyperbole and a black/white mindset takes over and a more reasoned approach is lost. Fortunately the way this place is run the SHOUT LOUDLY brigade are discouraged.

 

I personally am interested in knowing a kits faults, AND knowing what the fixes are, and how to do them.   Actually pinning down the problem and seeing if fixes can be made using some modelling skill rather than moaning and asking for aftermarket is something I find an interesting challenge, though I do need to make the effort to then actually build and finish the whole kit.

(my old tool Tamiya Spitfire I and Academy XIV projects are awaiting the alignment of me, camera and the right blue moon....) 

 

A good example of fixing something I thought was probably "fatally flawed" is @Ray_W  work on the Italeri Stuka

cheers

T

[fastterry]

Thanks Troy.

I will have to go through all the rigmarole trying to figure out how to post pics etc as I am an older modeller with average computer skills but I will give it a go.

One more thing about the SH kit of the MkXII. It has nice clear plastic pieces for the clipped wing ends to help out with making the nav lights but I'm pretty sure the XII didn't have them on the wings. (for reasons unknown). Maybe they thought that they wouldn't fly at night on ops.

TRF 

[Troy Smith]

On 17/02/2020 at 02:13, fastterry said:

I will have to go through all the rigmarole trying to figure out how to post pics etc as I am an older modeller with average computer skills but I will give it a go.

easy enough, but the pics must be hosted online,  there are threads on this in the help and support section here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/15-faqs/

 

On 17/02/2020 at 02:13, fastterry said:

 

One more thing about the SH kit of the MkXII. It has nice clear plastic pieces for the clipped wing ends to help out with making the nav lights but I'm pretty sure the XII didn't have them on the wings.

I think the SH kits have a generic clear sprue,  so the tips are for the vc kit as well.  As for the tip lights,  maybe @gingerbob  maybe able to help.

[fastterry]

Me again. My SH MkXII is ready for paint so I thought I would pass on some observations.

If the spinner and rudder are shortened then length is ok. Spinner also needs some off the diameter to get as close to 14.8mm (real thing is 28" according to Edgar) as possible.

Move wing forward 2mm with a certain amount of toing and froing and filler. Try and get the correct dihedral, mine came out a little flat and it's too hard to change it. I think wing is a little too thick as well.

Refine engine cam covers as I think they are too pronounced. Good pictures can be seen in various walkarounds.

Clear canopy parts are crap and need to be replaced with a vac canopy.

Well I think that's about it. Still not the definitive MkXII. I Like Special Hobby kits, having a number of 1/32 kits in my stash, however this is not one of their best efforts. It looks like you would have to combine the best MkV fuselage and wings with say the nose off an Airfix MkXIV (suitably shortened at the fuselage end) and find a spinner and some props. In other words hope mister Eduard comes to the party after they release their MkV etc.

TRF

 

[mike romeo]

On 2/4/2020 at 4:28 PM, Troy Smith said:

 

Does the below help?  this is the SH Searfire III next to an Airfix Vb,  (the rudder to firewall are the same length on all Spitfires except perhaps the 22/24) so this applies to the SH XII

 

Airfix vs SH cut fillet align IMG_0450 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

the front splice will move the wing forward, and add the length missing, and the other in front of the tail.  Do this an it's now the right length, and just a little trim at the rear of the wing root.

Just got my 1:48 Seafire III out of the stash.  So, is the SH fuse short by 3.5mm?  1.5mm in rear fuse and 2mm to move the wing forward - which will also lengthen the front fuse?

 

Apols if this is a dumb question.

 

Rgds

 

Martin

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, mike romeo said:

Just got my 1:48 Seafire III out of the stash.  So, is the SH fuse short by 3.5mm?  1.5mm in rear fuse and 2mm to move the wing forward - which will also lengthen the front fuse?

Yes.  It an awful lot easier if you have a correct kit to compare it too.   To be honest, I don't even know it will show up.  The tail one is easy though, and the SH tail is little tilted up, and that's half the job done,  and I think more noticeable correction. 

 

As I mentioned above,  the SH kit seems to get a bashing,  there was a thread where a Seafire recipe involved using the 1/48th Hasegawa Vb kit, when I pointed out, with a photo,  that the SH fuselage is basically a copy of the Hase VB,  there was no response.

Hase VB top, SH VC lower

50620151 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

One difference, the SH kit wing (not the fillet though)  is further back,  just about visible. The hase wing front is thus too far forward.   

 

To put this into perspective, i see plenty of builds of hasegawa IX, old tamiya I/V, or even the Airfix XII and Seafire XVII, all of which have a lot more problems than the SH kit OOB.  

Fell free to ask for any further clarification. (I can get the my SH Seafire III ) 

On 21/02/2020 at 08:48, fastterry said:

I thought I would pass on some observations.

If the spinner and rudder are shortened then length is ok. Spinner also needs some off the diameter to get as close to 14.8mm (real thing is 28" according to Edgar) as possible.

OK, here's are some real measurements.

Frame 5 , firewall to rudder post

245 inches, which is 6623 mm /48 = 129.646mm  

 

This should be the same length on ANY Spitfire. (even the very last 22/24)

 

Seafire XVII cowling ( @Mark12 measured Seafire XVII cowling panels for me ) 

along the lower edge of upper cowling,  75 and 1/4 inch = 1191.3 mm /48 = 39.81, or basically 40 mm

 

My SH XII is not to hand to check, so I can't say more at the moment.  

On 21/02/2020 at 08:48, fastterry said:

It looks like you would have to combine the best MkV fuselage and wings with say the nose off an Airfix MkXIV (suitably shortened at the fuselage end) and find a spinner and some props.

And... there is , at the moment,  no OOB accurate Vc,  as that is what you would need.  Actually, may as well just start with a Mk,IX,  as the Spitfire fuselage is same from the firewall back to the rudder post, and a IX is basically a Vc with a Merlin 60....

 

Or just fix the SH kit, which has got to be less work, and cheaper, as the above requires two kits, and STILL a lot of work.   the prop blades are fine.

 

Another thing to check sometime....

 

HTH

 

[HOUSTON]

interesting thread with useful information. Gentlemen  thank you.

 

Troy you said if you are not a Spitfire  nerd you'd never notice the flaw. 

THATS ME.  I would  never know there was a flaw. 

 

 

[mike romeo]

8 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Yes.  It an awful lot easier if you have a correct kit to compare it too.   To be honest, I don't even know it will show up.  The tail one is easy though, and the SH tail is little tilted up, and that's half the job done,  and I think more noticeable correction. 

 

HTH

 

Thanks, Troy.

 

Well, after reading this thread and your comments in particular, I went out and bought both the SH Spit XII and Seafire III.  The latter has just floated to the top of the build pile, so I just thought I'd check understanding before starting.

 

Rgds

 

Martin