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Scary Skeeter - Aeroclub 1/72


CedB

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3 hours ago, hendie said:

 

Ced, I've got loads of those brass bita that "doesn't quite fit" at first attempt.  Give it a few months and you'll find something to be able to repurpose it for.  Alternatively, it looks like you have enough plastic in that huge skeeter to scrape away a clearance channel.

 

PS - its great to see you getting into brass at last.  Now when the soldering iron comes out...

Thanks hendie :) Quite right; with a bit of bending and a bit of plastic trimming it's in now (see below)

1 hour ago, Biggles87 said:

You’ve turned into a ‘ proper modeller ‘ not just a kit builder like me. If you don’t already have one, I’ve got an almost unused brass etch folding tool which you can have.

 

John

Awww thanks John, but I've a long way to go to deserve that moniker IMHO :) 

I'll stick with the kit bashing and occasional journeys into 'that world' from time to time.

Kind offer of the etch folder - I have this one:

 

49538135703_2217d6a33c_z.jpg

 

… which is nice but limited. If you have a bigger one (fnaar!) I'd be interested - you can never have too many tools!

 

 

The bay tray has been beaten into shape and glued/filled:

 

49537930458_c6df515718_z.jpg

 

I'll file the edges to shape once the glue's dry.

 

Remember this?

 

49538003013_af14203ab3_z.jpg

 

Too tall, but not for long:

 

49538011263_635cf440bd_z.jpg

 

I now need to make a ring around the top. This tube seems to be the right diameter:

 

49538549761_8de438b502_z.jpg

 

… so I used that, some pliers and lots of Anglo-Saxon to get this:

 

49538125658_6ee1398cd5_z.jpg

 

What tools do you guys use for brass work? I think I need some of those round nosed pliers (for this sort of job) but, apart from the soldering kit which I have, what else would you recommend?

 

Taking the puppy back tomorrow; meeting her 'Dad' at Moreton-in-Marsh so I can pop in to Wellington Aviation.

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20 hours ago, CedB said:

still appreciate some help with your cardboard insert idea to reduce the size of the plastic required.

I can work out that I need to cut a square in some cardboard, but does the plastic got above or below the hole and how do you stop it being sucked in please?

Sorry Ced, I forgot about that. I use a very simple piece of packaging cardoboard, large enough to cover all the vacuum area, cut a square in it and tape a slightly larger clear plastic square to it. I use painters' tape for the job, making sure to seal all the clear plastic edges. 

And I keep the plastic below the hole, to wit towards the vacuum chamber.

 

As for avoiding the sucking in effect, can you place the plastic to be heated less close to the heating element? I think it gets sucked in because it's probably too soft (too hot)

Apologies I can't post any pics now, just got back from skiing and I'm about to go out for dinner.

Tough life, I know.

 

:rofl:

 

Ciao

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14 hours ago, giemme said:

Sorry Ced, I forgot about that. I use a very simple piece of packaging cardoboard, large enough to cover all the vacuum area, cut a square in it and tape a slightly larger clear plastic square to it. I use painters' tape for the job, making sure to seal all the clear plastic edges. 

And I keep the plastic below the hole, to wit towards the vacuum chamber.

 

As for avoiding the sucking in effect, can you place the plastic to be heated less close to the heating element? I think it gets sucked in because it's probably too soft (too hot)

Apologies I can't post any pics now, just got back from skiing and I'm about to go out for dinner.

Tough life, I know.

 

:rofl:

 

Ciao

Thanks Giorgio :) 

Square hole in cardboard, tape PETg to the bottom with painters' tape to seal - got it, thanks!

 

14 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

Great going Ced, now doing brass work.

This looks like a little beauty sir.

 

Simon.

Thanks Simon :) 

 

So far the brass is nice to work with with only a couple of problems:

- cutting the sheet without nicks / bends; small snips ordered!

- getting a round ring; wire bending pliers ordered!

Tools are the answer for my limited skills…

 

It was nice to find that the brass sanded with my current files, pushing the brass back against the plastic to avoid opening the glue join:

 

49541146638_9a46b4a528_z.jpg

 

A dry fit of the gearbox and shaft with the frame ring:

 

49541153583_d0c21b9e5c_z.jpg

 

49541878137_7fdae8e669_z.jpg

 

I need to get the shaft angle right but that should be OK.

 

The main problem is going to be making the frame - scary!

 

Soldering next. Gulp. Lots of great advice about here so I'm quietly confident (before the fall) :) 

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18 hours ago, CedB said:

What tools do you guys use for brass work? I think I need some of those round nosed pliers (for this sort of job) but, apart from the soldering kit which I have, what else would you recommend?

Good hold ‘h’ fold essential, but you’ve got one of them.  Ditto soldering stuff.
 

A pair of good flat-faced pliers - I have THESE.  (Tamiya also do a larger pair - fnarr - but for some reason I have never got on with them, so they sit glumly in a drawer.  The ones linked get used almost every day.)

I fairly regularly use this beast WIRE WRANGLER [beware - I know you’re a man for a quality tool (woof); this site might cost you money...]

 

A case in point, from the same people, would be the ROLLER.  Not used that often, but when needed it is completely indispensable.  Ask yourself how I rolled the pom-pom tub which was the most recent piece added to Ark.  Note that this piece of kit incorporates their “tool wire assist bending comb”, so you don’t need to buy both.  Ask me how I know.

 

But if I only had one PE tool, it would be back to Tamiya: DIAMOND FILE.  Every other file I have used with brass has a tendency to snag, and with thin pieces that can be disastrous.  This is superb.  Every single piece of Crisp PE / brass gets the same treatment: cut from runner (or from sheet if baking your own); hold firmly in the flat-faced pliers, so that the jaws are controlling as much as possible; use the diamond file to clean up the join, remove nubs etc.  You wouldn’t dream of leaving a resin pouring stub or styrene attachment point in place on your model, but you often see tiny nubs of brass left on [e.g.] PE railings on a ship, because they’re very hard to remove (cutting from the runner very accurately is almost impossible).  This file does it without blinking, but under control - as you get into ever-thinner brass, control becomes a real issue.

 

Message to Mrs B.  He asked.

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU
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Ced, playing Devil's Advocate I'd just like to give a small cautionary word if I may - make sure that going the route of the super detailers doesn't suck the joy out of your modelling. I used to try and super detail the heck out of my cockpits (and occasionally engines and wheel bays 😕 ) in 72nd - and even more stupidly 144th! -  and in the end I didn't really do any aircraft modelling for years as I just lost patience with it. Now I just add seat harnesses and brake lines or the odd resin ejection seat! What I'm trying to say is there's so many facets to the hobby, and I'm wondering if spending a couple of years - or even months - on one model is yours? 

 

Apologies if I'm talking out of turn, just saying what might happen....(prophet of doom mode off... :) )

 

Keith

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If we're talking pliers, I recommend these:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Maun-Parallel-Action-Flat-Nose-Plier-4860-125-140-160-200mm/362299770576?hash=item545abfc6d0:g:EwoAAOSw8Z9a2uFN

 

I use mine for folding small PE, using the flat and parallel jaws to good effect. 

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I don't have much in the way of special tools. Needle files work well, and as for making good rings, I wrap the brass rod around one of my hole punches, give it a pull, then clip off the excess. That way I can also vary the size easily using a different size punch, and I get 2 uses out of one expensive tool!

 

Ian

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5 hours ago, CedB said:

It was nice to find that the brass sanded with my current files, pushing the brass back against the plastic to avoid opening the glue join:

 

49541146638_9a46b4a528_z.jpg

 

Nice job Ced

 

I'm like Ian - I don't have much in the way of special tools specifically for brass.  I just use whatever tools I have lying around.  Apart from the soldering iron I can't think of anything that I've bought specifically to use on metal.

 

I would however heartily recommend TIX Solder Products - I use their stuff 90% of the time.  It's designed for use with jewellery so it's very low melt and very easy cleanup (unlike "standard" flux' which can corrode the brass if not cleaned off properly).  They even have an anti-solder that you can apply on parts where you don't want the solder to go (I have some but never tried it)

 

 

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5 hours ago, keefr22 said:

make sure that going the route of the super detailers doesn't suck the joy out of your modelling. I used to try and super detail the heck out of my cockpits (and occasionally engines and wheel bays 😕

Hello Keith. I can understand your thoughts, but for me it was always a joy to do this tiny little detailing. The thing that stopped me was the question where to put it in th end. I always liked ship modelling more than aircraft modelling. 1:600 full hull was my favourite, but I was always dissappointed for lacking details in the end. No etched, resin and 3D then and the choice was very limited. If I would start again on plastic, then obviously there or on my absolutley favourites iplanes in 1:72 (space problems again). So I think it's the golden middle way of what you like most and drives you.

Cheers

Edited by bbudde
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BTW be careful with snips. If they are proper metal snips they will have a bend in them and will bend the metal on one side as you cut. You will need to make sure you have them facing the right way! That's why I usually stick to basic plastic modelling snips and nip away at the metal slowly.

 

Ian

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8 hours ago, rob85 said:

Agree with you on the angle very important....

 

progress is looking good Ced, so much scratch building and metal!

 

Rob

Thanks Rob :) 

6 hours ago, bbudde said:

Hello Ced, too late for this party. Crowded as ever I will looks through the window. What I see is nice modelling. So no more bashing anymore? Cheers

Hi Ben, plenty of stuff left to do! Welcome :) 

6 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Good hold ‘h’ fold essential, but you’ve got one of them.  Ditto soldering stuff.
 

A pair of good flat-faced pliers - I have THESE.  (Tamiya also do a larger pair - fnarr - but for some reason I have never got on with them, so they sit glumly in a drawer.  The ones linked get used almost every day.)

I fairly regularly use this beast WIRE WRANGLER [beware - I know you’re a man for a quality tool (woof); this site might cost you money...]

 

A case in point, from the same people, would be the ROLLER.  Not used that often, but when needed it is completely indispensable.  Ask yourself how I rolled the pom-pom tub which was the most recent piece added to Ark.  Note that this piece of kit incorporates their “tool wire assist bending comb”, so you don’t need to buy both.  Ask me how I know.

 

But if I only had one PE tool, it would be back to Tamiya: DIAMOND FILE.  Every other file I have used with brass has a tendency to snag, and with thin pieces that can be disastrous.  This is superb.  Every single piece of Crisp PE / brass gets the same treatment: cut from runner (or from sheet if baking your own); hold firmly in the flat-faced pliers, so that the jaws are controlling as much as possible; use the diamond file to clean up the join, remove nubs etc.  You wouldn’t dream of leaving a resin pouring stub or styrene attachment point in place on your model, but you often see tiny nubs of brass left on [e.g.] PE railings on a ship, because they’re very hard to remove (cutting from the runner very accurately is almost impossible).  This file does it without blinking, but under control - as you get into ever-thinner brass, control becomes a real issue.

 

Message to Mrs B.  He asked.

Thanks very much Crisp :)  

Flippin' 'eck, you don't mess about do you! I'm all for investing in good quality tools but I'm not sure I'm going to do that much brass work :hmmm: 

I've already got a pair of flat-faced pliers from Expo and I used them for the ring, but it was tricky closing the last little bit around the plastic rod. I've ordered these in the hope that they'll provide a 'consistently formed loop' as promised in one of the reviews.

I've also ordered some snips - using my little 'modelling scissors' didn't work for me, especially when trying to get a good 'corner'. These look just right; small and straight jawed. We shall see.

Rollers? I'll put those on the wish list.

Diamond files I have in plenty and the ones I used for filing the tray seemed to work without snagging, thank goodness.

5 hours ago, keefr22 said:

Ced, playing Devil's Advocate I'd just like to give a small cautionary word if I may - make sure that going the route of the super detailers doesn't suck the joy out of your modelling. I used to try and super detail the heck out of my cockpits (and occasionally engines and wheel bays 😕 ) in 72nd - and even more stupidly 144th! -  and in the end I didn't really do any aircraft modelling for years as I just lost patience with it. Now I just add seat harnesses and brake lines or the odd resin ejection seat! What I'm trying to say is there's so many facets to the hobby, and I'm wondering if spending a couple of years - or even months - on one model is yours? 

 

Apologies if I'm talking out of turn, just saying what might happen....(prophet of doom mode off... :) )

 

Keith

Thanks Keith :) 

You're very kind to put that point of view and I think you're right - even with a bench full of tools I'm not going to get close to a 'proper modeller' and I need to make sure that doesn't get frustrating; it's supposed to be fun! 

To some extent I'm using this build to test my limits and I'll certainly bear your comment in mind, especially if I mess up… and that's bound to happen sooner rather than later.

I think I'll be back to kit bashing pretty soon… :D 

5 hours ago, Heather Kay said:

If we're talking pliers, I recommend these:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Maun-Parallel-Action-Flat-Nose-Plier-4860-125-140-160-200mm/362299770576?hash=item545abfc6d0:g:EwoAAOSw8Z9a2uFN

 

I use mine for folding small PE, using the flat and parallel jaws to good effect. 

Thanks Heather, they look amazing :) 

5 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

There must me something in that list that you don’t already have. :dog:

:D Thanks John, there is!

3 hours ago, limeypilot said:

I don't have much in the way of special tools. Needle files work well, and as for making good rings, I wrap the brass rod around one of my hole punches, give it a pull, then clip off the excess. That way I can also vary the size easily using a different size punch, and I get 2 uses out of one expensive tool!

 

Ian

Good tip Ian, thanks for that :) 

3 hours ago, hendie said:

 

Nice job Ced

 

I'm like Ian - I don't have much in the way of special tools specifically for brass.  I just use whatever tools I have lying around.  Apart from the soldering iron I can't think of anything that I've bought specifically to use on metal.

 

I would however heartily recommend TIX Solder Products - I use their stuff 90% of the time.  It's designed for use with jewellery so it's very low melt and very easy cleanup (unlike "standard" flux' which can corrode the brass if not cleaned off properly).  They even have an anti-solder that you can apply on parts where you don't want the solder to go (I have some but never tried it)

 

 

Thanks hendie :) I've got some old solder I had from my teenage electronics days and I've bought some Nigel recommended stuff with different temps so I think I'm ready? I have some de-soldering tape just in case.

I am, of course, not surprised that you don't have many special tools; as I keep saying, I only buy mine to try to compensate for lack of skill and you certainly don't have THAT problem :D 

 

2 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

The little Skeeter is coming along beautifully Ced, and some excellent leads on tools for brass, some of which I will follow up myself.

 

Terry

Thanks Terry :) 

 

30 minutes ago, bbudde said:

Hello Keith. I can understand your thoughts, but for me it was always a joy to do this tiny little detailing. The thing that stopped me was the question where to put it in th end. I always liked ship modelling more than aircraft modelling. 1:600 full hull was my favourite, but I was always dissappointed for lacking details in the end. No etched, resin and 3D then and the choice was very limited. If I would start again on plastic, then obviously there or on my absolutley favourites iplanes in 1:72 (space problems again). So I think it's the golden middle way of what you like most and drives you.

Cheers

Thanks Ben :) 

2 minutes ago, limeypilot said:

BTW be careful with snips. If they are proper metal snips they will have a bend in them and will bend the metal on one side as you cut. You will need to make sure you have them facing the right way! That's why I usually stick to basic plastic modelling snips and nip away at the metal slowly.

 

Ian

Thanks for the warning Ian - the ones I've ordered are Jeweller's straight ones so hopefully they'll be fine :) 

 

 

Worn out after driving 'half way' to Leicestershire and back to hand back the Pup.

Especially as, with the car 'extras' disabled, I actually had to DRIVE it!

Taking it to the garage in the morning and hopefully they'll reinstate the adaptive cruise so I can 'relax' again.

Lazy, me?

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4 minutes ago, CedB said:

I need to make sure that doesn't get frustrating; it's supposed to be fun! 

 

That's it exactly Ced - it got so far from fun in my case I ended up selling all my aircraft kits to Kingkit as I couldn't face them and was convinced I'd never build another. You'd never guess that now mind seeing the size the stash has grown to again....!!!  :doh:

 

Keith

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1 hour ago, CedB said:

Flippin' 'eck, you don't mess about do you! I'm all for investing in good quality tools but I'm not sure I'm going to do that much brass work

That's cos you don't build ships.  If you build ships, sooner or later you're going to need brass.

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2 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

That's it exactly Ced - it got so far from fun in my case I ended up selling all my aircraft kits to Kingkit as I couldn't face them and was convinced I'd never build another. You'd never guess that now mind seeing the size the stash has grown to again....!!!  :doh:

 

Keith

Sad story Keith and a good lesson for us all. I’m happy to test and, hopefully, extend and improve my skills but I’ll make sure that fun is the key measure :) 

53 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

That's cos you don't build ships.  If you build ships, sooner or later you're going to need brass.

Thanks Crisp. Can’t see any ship building in my future - too fiddly for me and way beyond my skill set :) 
 

Found a video on the sort of pliers I’ve ordered - they look perfect!

 

 

 

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Nice bending. 🤗

Remember when you said that you “just bashed kits” well not any more. They’re isn't owt wrong with that but you’re so far past bashing. 😍 the brass work is amazing. Such a wonderful little thing. 👌

Sorry for the lack of coherency, there has been wine...... and chess. The boy plays a good game. 🙌

 

 

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Thanks Johnny - wine and chess? Are you sure the boy's 'game' isn't due to the former? :D

I'll take a view after/during this build as to whether my 'skills' have improved enough to promote myself, but I think kit bashing is going to be my forte TBH.

 

 

A bit done this morning before I take the car for some attention.

 

Bucks smoothed using Bill's 'PPP on a damp cotton bud' method:

 

49546159123_ac4d213e48_z.jpg

 

I still want to see what is 'good enough'. Drying now.

 

What about that rotor head? I know I won't match The General's masterpiece so I wondered if I could 'improve' the kit part.

I drilled some small holes from the bottom to delineate (oooh, big words!) the edges of the shaft top:

 

49546914817_8bc8a63dab_z.jpg

 

Flipped down the extra lens on my magnifiers and used the Jeweller's saw to open up the gap between the head and the rod things (technical term):

 

49546941357_dcebfbce8d_z.jpg

 

Cleaned up with a blade and micro-file. Better?

 

49546760321_92e026750f_z.jpg

 

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Depending on your molding method, every little blemish may be visible. I have a canopy on a mig 21 conversion where if you look carefully you can make out the wood grain from the balsa wood plug. Since then I’ve started using basswood and the grain is fine enough not to show.

Edited by Marklo
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