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Ollie30

Gloss over Acrylics

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Hi all

Newby question here so apologies if it`s been asked before, i`m new to modelling and so far only have a few builds under my belt but i`m getting better at it with each build.

 

I`m about to embark on a Ferrari F40 1:12 build, it`s an old kit from 2004 i think. I`ve done lots of research before starting, even ordered Ferrari red paint from Vallejo as well as carbon fibre sheets to add extra detail. Anyway to cut a long story short what is the best gloss clear coat to go over acrylic paints, i`ve read loads of stuff from different forums and youtube but it all seems a little confusing. I don`t want to spend hours sanding and filling to have the paint react with a gloss coat and ruin the build.

 

Any advise as always would be gratefully received.

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Hi Ollie,

 

My personal favorite at the moment is Mr Color GX112 UV cut thinned with Mr color leveling thinners.  I'm also always learning and currently trying various base coats and clear coats on one of my builds.  I'd say buy a couple and experiment to really get the feel for them.  Lots of people love 2K but I'm wary of it as its pretty nasty stuff apparently.  More experienced people will clarify I'm sure.  Best of luck!

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Thanks for that KonaDawg

 

Read the same regarding the 2K stuff so i think i`ll leave that well alone. Confuses the hell out of me as some people say never use enamel varnish over acrylic paint while others say never use acrylic varnish over enamel paint lol. Best thing is to experiment and test like you suggested i think.

 

Regards

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From my own experience, preparation is key.  Get rid of possible contaminants, put your surface primer down smoothly and over a few thin coats.  If you can get your hands on mr color 1500 surface primer, that's a really good start.  I don't do much sanding but when you see the results, it can be worth the extra work.  I've ruined a couple of paint jobs as well 😊  It happens.  

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The simplistic way to do it is no clear coat at all, just use a gloss paint at the start. If you're just starting out, cutting out an extra layer of paint products will simplify things considerably. A good gloss paint with a little polishing will produce a mirror like shine by itself. The only time I'd use an additional clear coat is if I'm protecting decals with it or the base colour is a matt or satin finish and I wanted gloss..

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GX112 or GX100 if you want to stick to normal varnishes and avoid 2K. 

I would, however, encourage you to get some lacquer paint (pretty sure Gunze and MRP make Ferrari red), it will be a lot easier to work with on such a large model. If you decide to stick to Vallejo make sure it's absolutely and completely dry before clearcoating. A cheap and very good alternative would be to find an automotive paint supplier to mix the paint for you (automotive paint is just lacquer paint only a lot cheaper).

Whatever the choice I would make some test pieces using the exact same primer, paint and clearcoat. This way if there's a problem you'll see it before ruining the model.

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Pretty much as above, always test the combination on something cheap prior to spraying the model, that way if there is any bad reaction you'll be able to try something else before messing up a model you've put a load of money and effort into. I bought a cheap pack of plastic teapoons just for this - much better to waste a 2p spoon than a body shell.

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A lot of us here use Zero Paints or Gravity paints.

They dry matt, and need a gloss clear coat, but are more resistant to other types of clear coats. I would avoid enamel varnishes, as they have a tendency to go yellow over a period of time.

I have used both the ZP 1K clear coat, and Tamiya Gloss (X-22) thinned with Mr Color Levelling Thinners (2 parts thinner to 1 part clear coat) and I prefer working with the Tamiya gloss coat, as it seems a bit less of a faff to clean up afterwards.

However, as others have mentioned there are other clear coats available.

 

As always, experiment with something sacrificial first. Plastic tea-spoons are a good cheap thing to use.

 

Cheers,

Alan.

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I would suggest you think about trying the Tamiya TS paint out of the rattle can. There's a vast range of colours available and used correctly along with a light polish to finish off are almost equal to anything on the market. Only downside to these products is the smell but to be fair this applies to all lacquer paint. I use 2k products all the time however I would not recommend there use to anyone for obvious reasons. Practice makes perfect, as others have said plastic spoons is the way to go. Good luck and most important of all build for yourself and not the audience 👍

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Hi Olly,

 

I'm only recently back in the hobby after a 30 year absence but my first questions/points to you:

1) How are you looking to apply the paint/clear? I'm guessing airbrush.

2) Are you sure your paint coat is the correct one - the Vallejo Ferrari red I can find is described as matt, usually matt paints have a flattening agent in: usually tiny micro particles of silica that make the microscopic surface uneven (to diffuse the light). In my experience it takes a lot more effort to make a matt surface gloss than the other way round. You might need more clear coats, etc.

3) How chemically 'hot' are you prepared to go, from my experience so far the nastier the chemicals, the nicer the finish (or rather easier to get a nice finish, with experience I imagine anything is possible).

  1. 2K - haven't tried it myself but it's meant be nasty but give great results
  2. clear lacquer - I've tried it with good results, however it did melt (bubble) some parts of my decals and caused the white decals on my bright red rally Stratos to go pink (I think it reactivated the previous coat of paint somewhat), but apparently you should do a few thin tack coats first - I did one tack coat and then a wet coat. Does leave a nice shine though.
  3. alcohol based acrylic clear (Tamiya, Mr Hobby Aqueous) - can give a good level of shine but personally I've had issues knowing how 'wet' to get it, I often have runs leaving marks - I imagine experience helps here (and a good light source when airbrushing so you can easily tell the thickness).
  4. water based (Vallejo clear) - the Vallejo stuff is thick so needs thinning a bit but gives a protective coat, nothing overly shiny though IMO but seemed somewhat forgiving when I went too wet.

4) Don't forget the primer - to get a nice red you'll want something bright (white, pink or yellow giving bright results, or light grey), a black undercoat will dull the appearance of the red coat and require more layers. 

 

So far I've had hit and miss success airbrushing water based Vallejo paints, I think things like temperature and humidity can affect it and it's easy to put too thick a coat down from my limited experience - I have however had better luck using their 'primers' as colour coats (possibly they self-level better) and mecha colour lines (which are described as satin). I usually use Zero lacquer as my primer of choice though. Also with the Vallejo stuff, being water based it has a long curing time, give it a day or more - it's probably not scientific or recommended but I usually do a 'sniff' testif I can still smell paint then it's not fully cured.

 

I've had good experience using rattle cans too (Tamiya primer, TS colours and Mr Top Coat Gloss), though in the long run it's expensive, hard to know how much is left in the can, you get more elsewhere than on the model (spraying at distance) and need to do in a well ventilated space, ideally outdoors.

 

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Hi Ollie, as has been said it is about how "hot" the paint is. In general, lacquer paints at one end (hot), alcohol based paints in the middle (Tamiya X/ XF etc), and Vallejo paints (water based!) at the other  end of the spectrum (very not hot). You can paint water based paint over anything else, but not the other way around. If you use this as a guideline you're generally ok, but always test a new combination. 

 

So, in your case, you cannot finish Vallejo paint with anything else than a water based varnish. Also, the Vallejo paints are (in my opinion, I use them quite a lot) not really suited for car builds, they will not give you that nice shine and the paint is very easily damaged. My advice would be to go for rattle can if you don't have an airbrush, otherwise the Tamiya LP paints or something like Zero Paints (both are laquer). Only in well ventilated area's and only with breathing mask. 

 

Good luck!

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WOW guy`s thanks for all the advice, i`m blown away by your knowledge.

 

I`ve been using Vallejo paints and primers from the very beginning and i know some people don`t rate them and some people do but i really like using them both in the air brush and via brush with some good results.

I emailed them recently to ask advice and they recommend the mecha range of gloss coats over their acrylics so i think i might give that a go on this build, but rest assured i`m bound for the pound shop first for a

selection of plastic spoons as a test bed before i even look at painting the model. I was a bit confused regarding the primer coat though, i always thought when paining reds it was best to use a gloss black primer

to give a deep lustre when clear coated but several people have said use a lighter color as Scargsy has so again back to the spoons for testing first. Been wanting to build this kit for a long time and it`s very rare

so i`m gonna take my time, research everything and test everything before i start. Again thanks for all the input it really is appreciated.

 

Regards.

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4 minutes ago, Ollie30 said:

I always thought when paining reds it was best to use a gloss black primer.

Tamiya do a specific pink primer in aerosol. It's perfect under any red..

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8 minutes ago, Ollie30 said:

recommend the mecha range of gloss coats 

Well then, I've learned something new as well, I didn't yet know about Vallejo's mecha range. I'll look into that, sounds interesting. Take your time researching and be sure to post a build thread 🙂 

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Yes will definitely post the build thread when ready, also if you haven`t already check out Vallejo`s you-tube channel some awesome tutorials on there.

 

Regards

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Black will give the red "deepness", but will also make it a darker shade. Test on some spoons first to see which one you like better.

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