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1/48 HK B-17G “Man O War II”


Matt B

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Figured I'd start a thread for my B-17 that I've been tinkering around with for a month or so now.  I've been an on and (mostly) off modeler for the past several years but doing a 1/48 B-17 has been a project I've been researching for a number of years now so over the past 10 years or so I've acquired most of the detail sets for the Monogram kit and and attempted to start that last year but I think I tried to do too much with it and my modeling skills weren't quite where they needed to be to turn that kit into what I had in mind so it got stashed away.  Then around Christmas I saw HK came out with a 1/48 kit and after doing a little research I sprung for it and am quite happy I did.  Yes, there are a couple inaccuracies like the rear fuselage being slightly too fat and the out engine nacelles sitting a tad high but those don't really bother and quite honestly after having the kit in my hands, I don't think they'll be all that noticeable when the model is finished.  The ultimate goal for me is to build a diorama with this.  I've done a fair bit of research on the particular plane I'm doing and the history of it is pretty interesting.  One such part of that history that I plan to capture is a particular mission in which it had two engines knocked out by flak over France and it had to make an emergency landing at RAF Thorney Island.  So that will be challenging but I'm up for it.

 

The plane comes first though.  I plan on going slow with this and will be going over the top detailing wise when you take into account what can actually be seen but I've always wanted to go all out on a B-17 and I don't have many other kits I plan on building so I have no problem spending some money on aftermarket bits.  I'll start by pointing out the parts of the kit that aren't accurate for an "early" G.  1.) The radio room gun would not have been enclosed on early Gs.  The set up was much the same as an F with the hatch open and the gun mounted on a ring that slid back and forth for storage. 2.) The wing tip tokyo tank vents were also not present on early Gs.  These were added later and from the pictures I've seen, the two vent version located more in the middle of the wingtip seemed to be more common.  3.) The outer ball turret supports, parts V17 and V18, are incorrect for a G.  Fs had the spherical housing over the support but Gs did not.  I'm not sure how I'll tackle that yet.  4.)  This isn't really an inaccuracy, but the antennas were not a one size fits all deal in that all planes had them....referencing prototype photos is a good idea for these.  But all in all I'm really liking the kit and its been pretty fun so far.

 

I'm starting by making the major modifications.  The plane I'm building was the last B-17G-25-DL built which was the first production block to incorporate staggered waists windows, so I filled in the kit opening with sheet styrene and carefully cut out the new opening.  It's just rough so far and I till need to enlarge it height wise but at least its there.  Once the fuselage is closed I'll have to re-rivet the area but that shouldn't be too difficult.

 

49440332597_e9864b6b70_c.jpgMRB_7054 by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

49440106836_05fb48bebd_c.jpgMRB_7050 by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

I also cut away the elevators from the horizontal stabilizers so I can reposition them in the down position.  The other main mod that I think will go a long ways towards having a more accurate looking plane is lowering the landing gear.  This photo is post-mod, but both the lowered and raised gears were modeled fully extended which would not be accurate for a plane on the ground.  I cut away the entire torsion link assembly since they were undersized anyways and then made a cut at the top of the oleo flush with the collar and then removed about 2.5mm of material if I recall correctly.  I was eyeballing prototype photos and I think this looks good for an unloaded aircraft.  I then squared up both pieces and then drilled out the center of each piece then CA'ed a piece of brass rod for a strong, solid joint.  I replaced part of the torsion links with pieces from the Monogram gears and still have yet to replace the oleo scissors with some styrene.

 

49474321126_14ebc170a0_c.jpgLanding Gear by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

Right now, my focus is on the cockpit.  Like I said before, I'm probably going over the top but detailing like this is therapy to me and I enjoy it.  The center throttle quadrant left a bit to be desired so I've modified it a bit by cutting away the bottom front of it then gluing in some styrene and shaping it into what it should look like.  The back part of the top was also cut away and replaced with a portion of a True Details console as I liked the 3D detail better than the kit and also better than what Eduard offers for photoetch.  Speaking of Eduard, the sides and top of the console as well as the floor of the cockpit have PE pieces which look pretty good to me.  I still have to add all sorts of lever but that will come later.  The control columns for the pilot and copilot will also need a little work since I'm not too big on how they look.

 

49474544537_d93f791926_c.jpgCenter Console by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

The seats were next.  I tried my hand at using Milliput for the first time to make the seat cushions and I'm pretty happy with how they turned out.  I still have some areas to clean up with a file but they're done for now too (they're not glued to the armor yet, just stuck on with blue tack).

 

49474544397_5cd0fdeb85_c.jpgSeats by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

That's all I've got so far.  I'm currently tinkering with the sidewalls.  I cut away the half relief oxygen canisters and will be replacing them with Resin2Detail tanks.  I'm also trying to replicate the fabric covering on the sidewalls with some aluminum foil.

 

 

As for markings, the plane I'm doing is "Man O War II" from the 91st BG.  The 91st memorial website was down for a while but just recently got back up so right now I'm sifting through the daily mission reports trying to learn more about the crew.  If you click on the flickr link, I've included a brief history of the plane in the description for those who are interested.  The first "Man O War" lasted only one mission but the 2nd was a bit luckier and managed to complete 77 missions before being shot down.  I'm modeling it in late April of 1944 (before the red tail surfaces) when it had between 20-25 missions to its name and was still being flown by the original crew.

 

49459660373_d4f8bea178_c.jpgOriginal Crew of B-17G-25-DL "Man O War II" by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

Edited by Matt B
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Couple more for today.  Dry fitting of the oxygen canisters.  Everything forward of the canisters will be covered in foil replicate the fabric covering.  The Resin2Detail tanks are a little on the large side so I sanded one side flat where they will attach to the wall but I like the 3D appearance a lot better than the kit parts.  Since the tanks were hollow in the back, I glued some styrene sheet to the back of the sidewalls to maintain the structural integrity before I carefully cut away the tanks with a small serrated x-acto blade.  I cleaned it up a little then filled in my mistakes with perfect plastic putty.  I also did a dry fit of the cockpit so far.  There will definitely be a bit of detail crammed in there.  The reason for the red putty where the flap controls are supposed to be is because the kit part interfered with the Eduard rudder petals.  I cut it away and it will be replaced with an Eduard piece that I'll glue a little farther back than it should be so it will clear the petals.

 

49474982842_24b509491f_c.jpgOxygen Canisters by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

49474275203_750ab13af6_c.jpgDry Fit 2 by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

49474760081_b94dbd4afa_c.jpgDry Fit 1 by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

Edited by Matt B
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Looking really good so far :thumbsup: Not sure if seen these on Youtube or not, Doogs-Models is doing a series of build video's of one you might find interesting and may help you avoid a few pitfalls. Language alert though, if that sort of thing bothers you.

:cheers:

Edited by nsmekanik
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THis will be a joy to watch unfold. I've built my share of the old Monogram B-17s over the years. I was wondering if it would be wise to get the HK version. Methnks I soon will find out. Pay me no mind, I'll just set up me chair over here out of the way. Carry on.

Excellent look so far.

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I'll be watching your build with great interest, as she has always been my favorite B-17G, as I  never cared for bare metal or red-tailed examples. I have attached a link to two photos of her- one showing 15 and the other 45 missions. This will be a very nice tribute to a brave group of young men.

Mike

 

@Matt B- do you by any chance have the codes and group letter she wore, in  addition to her serial?

 

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/7006

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Thanks guys, hopefully I don't disappoint!

 

@nsmekanik I've been following his build and am eagerly awaiting the painting stage.  He's excellent when it comes to painting and weathering so I'm hoping to learn a thing or two.

 

@72modeler Yup.  Group letter was triangle A for the 91st BG, fuselage code was LG-V and her serial was 42-38083.  Arrived at Bassingbourn on 1 Feb 1944 and was lost on 2 Nov 1944 over Merseburg. The tribute is kind of my goal.  The more I found about the crew and plane the more I grew attached.  From barely returning from their first mission and losing a crewman in the process to several close calls after, its all fascinating.  Even more so is that the pilot, William Burtt, was only 21 at the time.  It's a shame he was killed in a training accident after completing his tour of duty.  What those men were doing at that age will never cease to amaze me.  I've found a couple other photos of her as well.  One is in the book The Wragged Irregulars of Bassingbourn and is a close up of the nose art and the other that I was amazed to see was actually a photo of the first Man O War with crewmembers after it crashlanded in England in the book Plane Names and Fancy Noses.  I've read through the missing crew report as well after it was shot down over Merseburg which was interesting.  There's a lot of 91st planes modeled but this isn't one of the more common ones so I'm hoping to do her justice.

Edited by Matt B
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Looks very promising build mate!!!  gonna follow, but please don't paint the fuselage halves  green, there is a wrongly conception of this based on modern restauration and warbirds, in ww2  "G" models were just bare metal and green olive insulation pad in the cockpit  and in the navigator and bombardier firewall only! 

 interesting reading here: https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2019/09/11/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-i/

 

check  the picture section of this awesome and accurate b17 cockpit:  https://www.facebook.com/b17cockpit/

 

cheers

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18 minutes ago, antonio argudo said:

Looks very promising build mate!!!  gonna follow, but please don't paint the fuselage halves  green, there is a wrongly conception of this based on modern restauration and warbirds, in ww2  "G" models were just bare metal and green olive insulation pad in the cockpit  and in the navigator and bombardier firewall only! 

 interesting reading here: https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2019/09/11/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-i/

 

check  the picture section of this awesome and accurate b17 cockpit:  https://www.facebook.com/b17cockpit/

 

cheers

Duly noted!  I do have reason to believe the rear fuselage was painted on at least some Douglas built birds (google “B-17G Sweet Pea”) but my plan is the safe route with natural metal everywhere except the cockpit, turrets and floors.

 

Im surprised I haven’t come across that Facebook page before...lots of great material in there. 

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I'm going to enjoy watching your build unfold, Matt.  Taking your time and working conscientiously will pay dividends.  I've much more to say but just off a busy shift and home from the pub so not the best time for typing into the combox.  

 

For now, I'll ask what sort of display base you aim to have (begin with the end in mind and that).  A tribute build deserves a plinth IMHO.  Space on a shelf alone won't do. 

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9 hours ago, Jackson Duvalier said:

I'm going to enjoy watching your build unfold, Matt.  Taking your time and working conscientiously will pay dividends.  I've much more to say but just off a busy shift and home from the pub so not the best time for typing into the combox.  

 

For now, I'll ask what sort of display base you aim to have (begin with the end in mind and that).  A tribute build deserves a plinth IMHO.  Space on a shelf alone won't do. 

Not entirely sure yet.  I’ll be building a custom wood base and acrylic cover for the diorama but I have yet to determine the size.  The plan is to use 3 vehicles (Jeep in RAF colors, standard tilly, US staff car) and 20-25 figures as I figure a US bomber landing at an RAF base would’ve garnered a bit of attention.  I didn’t find any photos of the event so I’ll be able to use some creativity while hopefully keeping it realistic.

Edited by Matt B
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Another small update (hopefully no one minds these....I told myself before I started this that I wanted to track every step of the way)

 

Spent an hour or so playing around with regular old kitchen foil.  I carved away the raised oxygen hose and plumbing and then laid it down over the sidewalls to replicate the fabric covering.  I burnished it down with a cotton swab then carefully cut out the details with a sharp no. 11 blade and ran some thin CA under the edges to tack it down.  Later on I'll add the oxygen hose and wires back.  I also used foil for the covering over the back of the instrument panel.

 

49477791978_d3acb9113e_c.jpgFoil Fun by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

One thing that I'm trying to do is make use of all the detail sets for the Monogram kit that acquired over the past 10 or so years.  Not many additions are significant but I'm trying to use what I can.  I'm putting as much detail into the nose as I can because I plan to leave off the Norden bombsight.  Since all planes in a formation dropped their bombs when the lead plane did, not every plane necessarily carried one on each mission.  This is why you may see some references to a "togglier" in some crews.  A togglier was basically a non-commissioned bombardier.  Since they weren't required to know how to use the bombsight or find targets, they didn't have to be a commissioned officer.  They opened and closed the bomb bay doors, toggled off the bombs (hence the name) and operated the chin turret.  So, without the bombsight, I figure more detail will be visible.  The light cream colored piece here is the oxygen panel I cut out from a True Details sidewall and the other piece is a drift meter from the Verlinden set.  I also made a small indentation on the exterior with a drill bit where the scope of the drift meter would be.  It was a device used by navigators to aid in determining and correcting (if need be) the course of the aircraft.

 

49478274291_2251ef1794_c.jpgNose Details by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

49478274141_679243934f_c.jpgDrift Meter-Ext by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

 

Also, a note to those who have this kit, I found that attaching the nose and tail sections to the fuselage before closing it up will give me the best fit and prevent any steps on the side of the fuselage.  You'll have to dry fit yourself to see if its the case for yours too, but this is what worked out for me.  As you can see in the last photo above, I was able to get a nice clean, smooth joint between the nose and the main fuselage piece.

Edited by Matt B
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Finished up a couple more mods tonight.  I had previously cut off the elevators and tonight finished off shaping them.  The kit pieces had a pretty thick reinforcement where the elevator met the stabilizer so cutting it away also removed a bit of plastic.  I built the shape back up with milliput then carved and sanded it into the correct shape.  Not perfect, but good enough for me.  The hinge points were cut away as well and I'll replace them with some styrene.  Fit of the stabilizers to the fuselage is pretty much perfect.  I also lightly sanded the ribs on the elevators to tone them down a tad.

 

49485750966_4e2a7925d2_c.jpgElev 1 by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

49485261938_c81e9fc674_c.jpgElev 2 by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

Then I decided to test my sanity and decided to open up the pilot's sliding window which almost ended with me ruining the windscreen.  The clear plastic is a bit tougher than the gray and it took a lot of slow cutting, carving, filing, cutting, filing and so on.  In the process, the bottom rail broke off.  Not a big deal as I can add it back on later after I attach the windscreen and you won't be able to notice.  However, when only one side broke off, I tried to glue it back and in the process got a nice glue fingerprint on the inside of the panel farthest to the right.  After saying a few choice words I tried to see if I could sand it out and luckily it wasn't too deep.  Started with 800 then then progressively got finer.  I have yet to polish it, but it looks like a lot better than it did.  The photo doesn't show it because the piece is loose, but fit of the windscreen is perfect.  All of the clear parts fit perfect. 

 

49485261778_b32b525d2c_c.jpgPilot Window by Matt Bourke, on Flickr

 

These mods are definitely a little time consuming but I think it will pay off in the end.

 

 

 

 

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  • 5 months later...
On 8/9/2020 at 6:41 AM, woody37 said:

Any progress on this? Great start :)

 

Not recently I’m afraid.  It’s been shelved for a few months now.  Work started to get pretty busy in March and stayed that way for a few months so that was taking up a lot of time and then other things with summer have taken precedence over modeling.  I may get back and do some more work later this year.  Last I left off I was still fiddling around with the nose interior and cut out a circular hole in the floor so I can replicate the chin turret cover out of clear styrene.

 

 I knew it’d be slow when I started and I held off on aftermarket purchases for awhile when I wasn’t sure how the pandemic would affect my work and financial situation but luckily we made it through so far and I haven’t taken a hit.  I do see that Eduard has come out with some good pieces since I last touched this though so when I get back to it I should be able to hit it full stride.  I’ve invested too much time in research to shelve it permanently, I just need that modeling bug to bite me again.  It will, I’m not worried about that.  I took a look at your thread and like the progress you’re making.  Very nice build so far!

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I’ve been like that for a few years but I was put on furlough for a few months this year which got the output up. The only aftermarket I’ve used it the cockpit etch and seat belts. I’ve used plasticard, wire and stretched sprue in the nose, I didn’t want to go mad on stuff you can’t see. Just got the fuselage together last night. Fitting the top piece requires care. I glued it bit at a time to get a good fit working from rear to front. There’s some small amounts of filler required along the bottom seams, but nothing major. Look forwards to seeing more progress when your ready :)

 

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4 hours ago, woody37 said:

I’ve been like that for a few years but I was put on furlough for a few months this year which got the output up. The only aftermarket I’ve used it the cockpit etch and seat belts. I’ve used plasticard, wire and stretched sprue in the nose, I didn’t want to go mad on stuff you can’t see. Just got the fuselage together last night. Fitting the top piece requires care. I glued it bit at a time to get a good fit working from rear to front. There’s some small amounts of filler required along the bottom seams, but nothing major. Look forwards to seeing more progress when your ready :)

 

Definitely understand what you’re saying about the interior.  I’m probably trying to do too much in the nose, but I wanted to challenge myself and I figure since military modeling isn’t really an interest like it once was and I only have a couple other kits in the stash, I’m ok spending a little more on aftermarket for this build since I have grand plans for it.  I feel like my efforts in the radio room and waist will be better seen since I’m leaving the radio room open and the staggered waist windows on my particular plane will have one piece windows that I plan to make out of very clear, distortion free plastic.  I think the biggest thing for me compared to when I had tried (and failed) with the Monogram kit is that I’m getting a lot less frustrated with the HK kit.  Nothing against Monogram, especially since I loved that kit as a kid, but I’m just enjoying the HK a lot more.  The fit of the clear parts alone is light years better.  I’ve noticed the fit of the top piece too...I already glued the nose sections on to the fuselage and I think when it comes to joining the fuselage and adding the top deck I’ll have to start from front to rear and do a little at a time to make sure the panel lines on the nose line up and then I’ll take care of the small gap at the ear by the radio room.  Whenever I get back hopefully I can get some paint on some

parts relatively soon after and then that should help with the motivation, seeing it start to come alive.

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It was the clear parts that put me off starting my Monogram one but much the same, building it as a kid and seeing the booklet included that had the diorama which blew me away probably cemented my interest in the hobby. Gluing the nose sections on first sounds like a good move. I fitted the nose tonight but the fit does require some sanding flush so should of done the same.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Alright, so following @woody37's excellent build has managed to get me back to looking at my build.  Work has started to get busy again and the weather's been pretty nice so I don't plan on making any leaps and bounds right away, but I did continue putzing around with details in the nose.  Nothing major, so I didn't even bother getting the camera out and just to this with my phone. 

 

The styrene strip I added to the fuselage is the heating duct for the defroster on the nose cone.  I carefully cut out the area that would be the top of the chin turret and lined that with some strip.  This area was covered with clear plexiglass on the real birds, so that will be the next step along with adding some of the electronic controls that are visible underneath the bombardier's seat.  I also added a bomb bay door lever quadrant that I believe is a Verlinden piece.  The last thing for now was cutting out the door on the rear radio room bulkhead and replacing it with a new one made out of .020" sheet so I can model it open.

 

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A few months ago I also managed to find another of the holy grail of 1/48 figure sets, the Teknics US Bomber Crew.  I had bought one years ago but the person I bought it from had tried putting together most the figures and it must have been towards the end of production before Meteor Productions went out of business because the molding quality on some of the parts was not that great.  So I kept my eye on ebay every now and then waiting for another to pop up and lo and behold another finally did.  This one has only one figure started and the molding quality is MUCH better than the other. 

 

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Edited by Matt B
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Following with interest (Got this kit ready to go), and great work so far. Nice find on the Teknics figure set! I've found, much to my surprise, that good 1/48 USAAF figures are pretty hard to find. The dio I have in mind is a scene just before my B-17 returned to the States in June 45. The figures I need are more fatigues and flight jackets etc, with a bunch of extra passengers that were wearing a variety of fatigues and uniform items etc. Maybe a bit easier, but still a chore to find. I thought 1/48 WW2 US figures wouldn't be a problem, but most seem to be either full flying kit or a few ground crew and infantry type figures.

 

Steve

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