Room for a little one...?

[Learstang]

Thank you for that link! I may have to get that book. I've thought about writing a book on Soviet WWII colours, and even started one, but I've never had time to complete it (I've written and had published several other books on WWII Soviet aircraft).

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

Edited February 5, 2020 by Learstang
Additional comment added.

[Hobo]

32 minutes ago, Learstang said:

Thank you for that link! I may have to get that book. I've thought about writing a book on Soviet WWII colours, and even started one, but I've never had time to complete it (I've written and had published several other books on WWII Soviet aircraft).

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

Hello Jason,

What are the books you have published? I would be interested.

[Learstang]

Certainly, they are Il-2 Shturmovik: Red Avenger, Lavochkin Fighters of the Second World War, Tupolev Tu-2: The Forgotten Medium Bomber, Soviet Strategic Bombers: The Hammer in the Hammer and the Sickle, and Soviet Bombers of the Second World War. They are all available on Amazon, and other online stores such as Barnes and Noble. My book on Soviet Fighters of the Second World War should also be published some time this year. Right now I'm writing a book on the Avro Shackleton, just to show I can write about more than just Soviet aircraft.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[Hobo]

47 minutes ago, Learstang said:

Certainly, they are Il-2 Shturmovik: Red Avenger, Lavochkin Fighters of the Second World War, Tupolev Tu-2: The Forgotten Medium Bomber, Soviet Strategic Bombers: The Hammer in the Hammer and the Sickle, and Soviet Bombers of the Second World War. They are all available on Amazon, and other online stores such as Barnes and Noble. My book on Soviet Fighters of the Second World War should also be published some time this year. Right now I'm writing a book on the Avro Shackleton, just to show I can write about more than just Soviet aircraft.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

Thank you Jason - I wasn't even aware of these titles. The reviews on Amazon are very favorable and I need to add these volumes to my library. This thread has been very informative and I thank you.

[Learstang]

You're most welcome, and I thank you very much for your interest in my books! I do hope you enjoy whichever ones you purchase!

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[Bangseat]

A beautiful build, thank you! 

 

I must say, in spite of the recent debunking of Pilawski, one day I do intend to build an Il-2 in "tractor green" - it's just such a crazy colour 😋

[Learstang]

9 hours ago, Bangseat said:

A beautiful build, thank you! 

 

I must say, in spite of the recent debunking of Pilawski, one day I do intend to build an Il-2 in "tractor green" - it's just such a crazy colour 😋

I had a nice Smer kit earmarked for painting with the 'Tractor Green', which colour I had even ordered from WEM (they had a whole range of VVS paints based on Mr. Pilawskii's work, which I ordered). I was heartbroken when I learned the colour wasn't used. Good luck on yours - kind of a 'what-if', I suppose!

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

 

P.S. Anybody want any 'AII Brown' or 'Industrial Metal Use Primer'?

Edited February 5, 2020 by Learstang
Additional comment added.

[Aardvark]

On 2/1/2020 at 2:12 AM, Hobo said:

I am no expert on the colors of Soviet aircraft during World War II, but I do have many volumes on the history of the war on the Eastern Front. One of the best is Simon Sebag Montefiore's Stalin - The Court of the Red Tsar.

In what way is the description of Stalin's life written: - by two Russophobes (

"The anti-Soviet is always a hidden Russophobe!"(с))

 

-and the Western grant-eater, a regular "yeltsin center"

and also Russophobe

the best book about the war on the Eastern Front?

On 2/1/2020 at 2:12 AM, Hobo said:

This remarkable book really shows how overwhelmed and overmatched the Russians were at times during 1941 and 1942. There were instances when the Soviet military and political leadership were completely clueless and running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

And Soviet military and political leadership

absolutely " completely clueless and running around like chickens with their heads cut off" was able to push the Nazis away from Moscow in 1941 and defeat their 

by Stalingrad in 1942? WOW!

On 2/1/2020 at 2:12 AM, Hobo said:

It is also important to remember that many factories in "European Russia" were dismantled and moved by rail east to the safer parts of Russia.

2743 manufacturing  evacuated to the rear during the period from July 1941 to August 1942 year  with

30-40% of workers, engineers and technicians with 2393.3 thousand livestock were moved to the eastern part of the country, also testify about 

"Soviet military and political leadership were completely clueless and running around like chickens with their heads cut off", yeppp....

B.w. you may give examples of other such evacuations in history?

On 2/1/2020 at 2:12 AM, Hobo said:

These operations were often done haphazardly with little time to spare.

"haphazardly" operations on the 

the railroad?  Are you seriously?  Have you ever seen a train schedule?😁

On 2/1/2020 at 2:12 AM, Hobo said:

The bottom line is that it would seem to me that the last thing on the mind of a Russian mechanic or factory worker was making sure that their aircraft were painted correctly (survival and fighting back were their main focus).

In order to prevent such mechanics or workers from thinking at every military factory, then and now there was a military acceptance, completely independent of the factory. And if the military acceptance considered military products not meeting the specified criteria, she simply did not sign the documents and did not accept the products of the plant. Then it turned out for what reasons the products are not accepted, and if these reasons were not convincing enough ..... you know what happens for sabotage during the war? The Gulag in this case is not the worst option, as well as the penal battalion at the front, because they could just shoot ....

On 2/1/2020 at 2:12 AM, Hobo said:

Considering how horrible the Russian supply network was at this time, they probably just used whatever paint

was available.

How I understand, 

they were able to organize the evacuation, often under bombing and under the nose at the advanced units of the attack  wehrmacht, but they could not organize the delivery of raw materials and supplies?  

Awesome !!

And yes, also they did not have direct Coca-Cola (all Coca-Cola personally drank  Stalin! 146% info!)

supplies to soldiers in the trenches!  How could they fight?  Savages! 😁😁

 

On 2/1/2020 at 2:12 AM, Hobo said:

When you're dealing with nothing but poor quality black and white photos, you are in the realm of pure speculation.

When you know about such an instrument as Google, you can suddenly find the approved standard painting schemes for Soviet aircraft for each type, indicating the colors used and these schemes may, in a strange way, coincide with black and white photographs ... hallelujah, it's a miracle, isn't it  ?

And the funny thing is that there were and exist albums with color samples which the planes should have painted on according to the approved schemes.

On 2/5/2020 at 2:27 AM, Hobo said:

I was not aware that people in Russia are able to access original documents in order to clarify the colors used by the Soviet Union during World War II.

No, actually my personal bear has access to the archives, but we usually play the balalaika and drink vodka when the bear works in the archives! 😁

 

Sorry, but I need to run for coupons on the Internet .... you did not know that we have the Internet for coupons that are issued at the KGFSB?

😁😁

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

[Hobo]

5 hours ago, Aardvark said:

In what way is the description of Stalin's life written: - by two Russophobes (

"The anti-Soviet is always a hidden Russophobe!"(с))

 

And Soviet military and political leadership

absolutely " completely clueless and running around like chickens with their heads cut off" was able to push the Nazis away from Moscow in 1941 and defeat their 

by Stalingrad in 1942? WOW!

 

And yes, also they did not have direct Coca-Cola (all Coca-Cola personally drank  Stalin! 146% info!)

supplies to soldiers in the trenches!  How could they fight?  Savages! 😁😁

 

When you know about such an instrument as Google, you can suddenly find the approved standard painting schemes for Soviet aircraft for each type, indicating the colors used and these schemes may, in a strange way, coincide with black and white photographs ... hallelujah, it's a miracle, isn't it  ?

And the funny thing is that there were and exist albums with color samples which the planes should have painted on according to the approved schemes.

No, actually my personal bear has access to the archives, but we usually play the balalaika and drink vodka when the bear works in the archives! 😁

 

Sorry, but I need to run for coupons on the Internet .... you did not know that we have the Internet for coupons that are issued at the KGFSB?

😁😁

 

Hello Serge,

You are absolutely right Serge. With the help of the Siberian reserves and due to the fact that the Germans had no winter clothing, Zhukov did a masterful job in saving Moscow. One thing that helped Zhukov accomplish this was the fact that Stalin finally kept his nose out of the planning and allowed Zhukov to make the decisions. Stalin also kept his nose out of the planning involving the Stalingrad encirclement and let Zhukov and Vasilevsky make the decisions. I give Stalin a lot of credit for this, because his bad decision-making at the beginning of the war lead to the deaths and capture of many Soviet troops, despite their vast numerical superiority. I think it can be agreed that something definitely wasn't right with the preparations, strategy, and decision-making of the Soviet political and military leadership at the beginning of the war on the Eastern Front. The fact that the Germans made it all the way to Moscow and the Volga and were able to capture several million prisoners along the way should prove this, but then again, maybe not. The unfortunate decision made by Stalin to murder so many of his top officers during the Great Purge probably didn't help. The Russian Army's performance in the Russo-Finnish War should have been a wake-up call.

 

Serge said:

In what way is the description of Stalin's life written: - by two Russophobes (

"The anti-Soviet is always a hidden Russophobe!"(с))

Yes, I consider Montefiore's book one of the best on the war in the Eastern Front because it delves deeply into how inept and incompetent Stalin and his cronies - like Voroshilov - were in making important decisions regarding strategy in the early stages of the war. His writing is heavily footnoted and relies on original documents in Soviet archives. All I can say is read the book with an open mind and decide for yourself.

 

On 2/4/2020 at 3:27 PM, Hobo said:

"I was not aware that people in Russia are able to access original documents in order to clarify the colors used by the Soviet Union during World War II."

Serge's reply:

"And the funny thing is that there were and exist albums with color samples which the planes should have painted on according to the approved schemes. No, actually my personal bear has access to the archives, but we usually play the balalaika and drink vodka when the bear works in the archives!"

That was a really stupid statement on my behalf and I apologize Serge. I am well aware that there is a lot of great work being done by researchers in the Russian archives.

 

In summary, I really regret my first post. I had no idea that Pilawskii was so radioactive. I know that there were quite a few field-applied schemes that were non-standard, so it is impossible to know with 100% accuracy what the colors were. The links that Troy gave me illustrate some of these schemes. I should have just mentioned that fact and moved on. I definitely meant no disrespect to the Russian people, and I certainly meant no disrespect to the Russian researchers who have worked so hard on this subject. And I am definitely not a Russophobe and I doubt that Mr. Montiofiore is. I have a deep interest in Russian history, especially 20th century Soviet history, and books by authors like Montefiore, Rayfield, Service, Conquest, Solzhenitsyn, Radzinsky, and Kotkin have informed me on this subject. Perhaps their writing is distorted and biased. What all of these books do point out is the hard work, sacrifice, and incredible fighting ability of the Soviet people during World War II. I apologize to you Serge if that post offended you in any way. Cheers.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Hobo

[Aardvark]

11 hours ago, Hobo said:

With the help of the Siberian reserves and due to the fact that the Germans had no winter clothing, Zhukov did a masterful job in saving Moscow. One thing that helped Zhukov accomplish this was the fact that Stalin finally kept his nose out of the planning and allowed Zhukov to make the decisions. Stalin also kept his nose out of the planning involving the Stalingrad encirclement and let Zhukov and Vasilevsky make the decisions. I give Stalin a lot of credit for this, because his bad decision-making at the beginning of the war lead to the deaths and capture of many Soviet troops, despite their vast numerical superiority. I think it can be agreed that something definitely wasn't right with the preparations, strategy, and decision-making of the Soviet political and military leadership at the beginning of the war on the Eastern Front.

Zhukov memory 

memoirs about the role of Stalin in planning military operations are somewhat different in time, during the period of Stalin’s revelations by Khrushchev, they are just like you wrote, and several others when Khrushchev was not.  Which Zhukov to believe, the question is very interesting....

11 hours ago, Hobo said:

The unfortunate decision made by Stalin to murder so many of his top officers during the Great Purge probably didn't help.

The recent appearance of archival documents shows that the conspiracy of the military was probably there, with a high degree of probability it can be argued that there is a deeply secret agent network in the top leadership of the army.  As an example, a recent protocol for investigating Marshal Blucher’s autobiography should appear. The NKVD failed to establish who Blucher was before the 1917 revolution; moreover, the information provided by Blucher in the questionnaire turned out to be false. Literally yesterday, archived data

testimony Bukharin

https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5619957.html

appeared on negotiations between  and the Germans in 1937 ..... in exchange for help in overthrowing Stalin, the Germans wanted economic and territorial concessions from the new government of the USSR, but the conspiracy participants were ready only for economic concessions.

At the same time, it is also indicated that negotiations with the Germans, according to Bukharin, were also conducted by the Trotskyists.  Bukharin also reports that he feared that the Ameste military conspirators and Tukhachevsky iwould get ahead of them. 

 

Can you imagine how "miraculously" it would have turned out militarily for the West if, by 1938, a military pact Germany-Italy-Japan-USSR had taken shape

If even one of the conspiracies came true?  Under such conditions, the language of this forum could be German, yepp ....

What is interesting in the testimony of Bukharin ?!

 

"Since I was constantly tormented by the thought of the danger and inadmissibility of a coup during the war (see above), I asked Tomsky how the mechanics of a coup were thought in this connection.  He said (muffledly) that this is a matter of the military (??) (obviously having in mind the failures at the front) * of the organization that will have to open the front to the Germans. * To this I told him that since such a (unacceptable  , but also politically absurd) porridge, then in this situation (the only way out is to judge) * we will have to sue * the culprits (failures) * defeats at the front. * (and organize under the patriots) * In that case, we will succeed [7]  (tie) to enthrall the masses, playing with patriotic slogans.  (especially since the Bonapartist danger (Tukhachevsky, for example) can become completely real. The whole conversation with Tomsky made a very difficult impression on me."

About the conspiracy of the military.  Fedko’s testimony, which Beria personally handed over to Stalin.  By reference, scans of documents in Russian:

https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5596451.html?utm_source=3userpost

 

Most interesting is that Blucher refused to start a war that would lead to defeat in the east without starting a war in the west.  At the same time, as Fedko writes, for the purpose of conspiracy, he had to imitate hostile relations with Blucher. Describes and measures to destabilize the combat effectiveness of the army when, instead of combat training, soldiers were forced to build country houses for generals.

11 hours ago, Hobo said:

The Russian Army's performance in the Russo-Finnish War should have been a wake-up call.

Call was early, in Spain Civilians War. In Soviet-Finnish War all the goals set for the USSR were achieved. How effective is another question.

11 hours ago, Hobo said:

Yes, I consider Montefiore's book one of the best on the war in the Eastern Front because it delves deeply into how inept and incompetent Stalin and his cronies - like Voroshilov - were in making important decisions regarding strategy in the early stages of the war. His writing is heavily footnoted and relies on original documents in Soviet archives. All I can say is read the book with an open mind and decide for yourself.

May I come back to this issue later.

11 hours ago, Hobo said:

That was a really stupid statement on my behalf and I apologize Serge. 

Absolutely without any problems from me! I do not aim to create scandals in this forum, but a biased and one-sided presentation of information causes some imbalance and therefore I sometimes try to indicate a different point of view or discrepancy with the data that I have.

11 hours ago, Hobo said:

I am well aware that there is a lot of great work being done by researchers in the Russian archives.

There is one, many problems with archives.  Information from archives cost money, sometimes it’s quite a lot of money that a private person can’t afford.  Archives are located in different cities, therefore, in addition to spending time, it is also necessary to spend money on a hotel, this is still money.  All of this is unlikely to pay off if you ever release a book.  Therefore, sponsors come to the fore. But sponsor pays money for what he wants to see and does not pay money for what he does not want to see.

11 hours ago, Hobo said:

Yes, I consider Montefiore's book one of the best on the war in the Eastern Front because it delves deeply into how inept and incompetent Stalin and his cronies - like Voroshilov - were in making important decisions regarding strategy in the early stages of the war.

 

11 hours ago, Hobo said:

His writing is heavily footnoted and relies on original documents in Soviet archives

Book have copy original archives documents? But if not ..... most interesting tank expert Yury Pasholok take book M.Svirin  and using the links to used archival files, I went to the archive and took them in the archive .... what was his surprise when the information was distorted or directly opposite to what was written in these documents! In LJ

Yury Pasholok have special hash tag on this topic - #anti-svirin. Therefore, references to the fact that the author of the book worked in archives without archival documents are completely unconvincing to me.

11 hours ago, Hobo said:

Montefiore, Rayfield, Service, Conquest, Solzhenitsyn, Radzinsky, and Kotkin

 About Solzhenitsyn & Radzinsky,  I'll write later.

Ofcourse  if this interesting and no 

objections in this thread.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

Probably with I-153 a rather sad story of my family is connected.  

 

Why is it possible, because the "ishachok"-"donkey" was also called the I-16.

 

My paternal grandmother was a medical professional and was unable to evacuate from the village where they lived with my fourth -year-old father.  When the fighting was going on, a one "donke"y was shot down over the village, and my grandmother hid the wounded pilot of this "donkey", naturally, Nazi accomplices reported this to the Gestapo, and my grandmother (who was still the wife of an officer Red Army (even though he was an army surgeon) was shot, the wounded pilot was taken to the city  and he was probably executed there too. My four-year-old father remained in the arms of his grandfather. Great-grandfather was already over 60 years old and he wasn’t shot and left his grandson only because he, besides being an old one, fought in the infantry during the IWW, went in bayonet attacks against the Germans and for this he still had royal rewards.  It’s not strange, but  Germans came across respecting ordinary soldiers of infantry who fought in the IWW against them, so his great-grandfather left his life and his little grandson.  When my father’s mother was killed, my grandfather was treating the wounded soldiers in a field hospital near Stalingrad and did not know anything about it, there was still a long year and a half left until his release.  My great-grandfather and my father will survive the occupation, but great-grandfather will not wait for Victory and leave this world in 1944 and his father will forever remember how terribly the siren Ju-87 roars when he dives and throws a bomb.....

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Aardvark