Saab JA37 "Jatkviggen"***FINISHED***

[PeterB]

It was my intention to build my family of Saab jets in chronological order, but delays in getting paint and bits for the Lansen have meant that plan has gone out of the window, so I will shortly be starting this.

In 1977 Heller released their kit of a Viggen. The box did not say which version it was but the 1978 reboxing said it covered the AJ attack, SF recce, and SK 2 seat trainer. My boxing dates back to 1998 when they added new parts and started selling it as the JA fighter/interceptor version, and that is the version currently on sale. It appears that the parts for the 3 other versions are still included but Heller only provide one paint scheme and markings for a “Jaktviggen” as the AJ37 is known. They also have limited the armament options to the fixed cannon pod on the belly and 4 AIM 9 Sidewinders, which is a pity as the real thing could also carry Skyflash and later AIM 120 longer ranged missiles - I have a supply of missiles but would need to work out how the pylons and rails looked if I wanted to use them. The colour scheme is for one of the later grey machines.

 

It looks as if I could probably still build any one of the previous versions, as it includes 2 different tails, two cockpit tubs and seats, both a short and long upper fuselage insert and transparencies for both single and 2 seater and parts for both normal and recce nose though it might be missing pylons and weapons for the attack version.  I would love one in the splinter camo, but frankly I have neither the patience or time, so I will build this OOB if I can - perhaps I will buy one of the earlier boxings some time when I have some spare cash. Assuming I have all the bits and it fits reasonably well this does not look like a very complicated kit or colour scheme so I might get it finished before the "In the Navy" GB starts in the middle of February - I might even get the Gripen done as well, but first I have to finish the Lansen.

 

So before very long I will be building yet another Viggen to join the countless ones already in progress - might even out the surfeit of Drakens a little.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited January 30, 2020 by PeterB

[reini]

More classic Saabs? Great!  Loving these older Heller & Airfix builds - they seem to be hassle free honest modelling  

 

You're on a roll - so keep it up  

[trickyrich]

someone better turn the light on as these Viggen's are breeding like rabbits!

 

It's nice to see a range of manufactures and scale.

 

Good luck with this build as well.

[Rabbit Leader]

Nice choice again Pete and I’ll look forward to seeing how this comes together having ordered (but still not received) and initial Heller boxing way back in mid December.. I do hope it eventually turns up. I can’t say I’ll fit it in to this GB, however may sneak it into the Classic Heller GB which starts in October. Your production line is running quite well these days Pete, aren’t you glad we got you going a few months ago! 
 

Cheers and all the best.. Dave

[Col.]

Delighted to see another Viggen in this GB  Also pleased to see the parts are included to build so many versions including the twin-tub model, tempting...

[PeterB]

As I had not expected to be starting this kit quite so early, I am only now thinking about paint! For the upper surfaces Heller suggest Humbrol Hu127 - roughly equivalent to Light Compass Ghost (CG) Gray whilst IPMS Stockholm suggest Hu128 which is more like Dark CG Gray. For the unders Heller suggest adding white to the Hu127 whilst IPMS say Hu 147 which is a very light grey and they mention 2 FS numbers, one of which which is actually Light Gull Gray - the latter fits with an old SAM article - they do put question marks against them so the exact match is uncertain it seems.

 

So a question for those who know Viggens - what colours would you suggest for the two tone grey fighter scheme? I am tempted to go with Dark CG Gray over Light Gull Gray as I actually have those paints in stock.

 

Finally - the Italeri kit of the Gripen A says Dark CG Gray over Light CG Gray and IPMS are a bit vague but suggest FS36173 over FS36373 - any thoughts?

 

Incidentally I have quoted gloss FS numbers but the planes would presumably have a flat finish - a lot of my paint is Xtracolour/Xtracrylic which are gloss.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited February 2, 2020 by PeterB

[theplasticsurgeon]

1 hour ago, PeterB said:

So a question for those who know Viggens - what colours would you suggest for the two tone grey fighter scheme? I am tempted to go with Dark CG Gray over Light Gull Gray as I actually have those paints in stock.

Take a peruse at my Viggen from 2013,  said I used Humbrol 128 upper, 147 under,  see what you think of it.

 

 

Can you show us a closeup of your decals - they don't look great in that first photo

 

[PeterB]

Hi,

 

The decs look fine - it is probably the lighting and/or camera angle. I have both Hu128 and Hu147, though the latter is looking a bit iffy - have to see how it works.

 

Pete

Edited February 1, 2020 by PeterB

[Rabbit Leader]

3 hours ago, theplasticsurgeon said:

... I used Humbrol 128 upper, 147 under

Just wondering if these are good paint matches for early Gripen jets as well? 
Cheers.. Dave 

[theplasticsurgeon]

On 2/1/2020 at 10:09 PM, Rabbit Leader said:

Just wondering if these are good paint matches for early Gripen jets as well? 
Cheers.. Dave 

Thats the plan for my Gripen.

 

Edited:   I've just converted the FS numbers on the box.   Humbrol 127 under, and 145 upper.

 

[PeterB]

Hi Guys,

 

The impression I get is that the Gripen was slightly darker on top - the IPMS match of FS36173 equates to Hu 156 "RAF Dark Camo Grey" as on Tornados, Gunze H82 "Dark Gray", or Xtracolour X158 "AMC Battle Gray" - not sure about the undersurfaces which they say are FS 36373. As mentioned in my post Italeri says for my Gripen kit Dark Ghost Gray over Light Ghost Gray which is not quite the same. No doubt our "Nordic" experts can help with this -please!

 

I am pretty well informed on RAF, USAF, Luftwaffe, Reggia Aeronautica and JNAF/JAAF colours but all at sea with modern Swedish colours. In a post on one of the Draken threads somebody said that as they were operating at lower levels than the Viggen, the grey Drakens were painted in the same grey as the Viggen but with about 10% black added -  the same may be true of the Gripen, but I am only guessing as I know very little about the plane. This entire GB is a voyage of discovery for me, but fortunately we have the help of some excellent "guides". Also, my kit is a Gripen A in spite of 3 out of 4 of the dec options being for a C - not sure if there was any change in paintwork along with the upgrade to "NATO standards" and in flight refuelling. For what it is worth the "Two Bobs" decal sheet I just bought (thanks Dave) states like the IPMS Stockholm site that the correct colours are FS 36173 on top  and FS36373 underneath but shows no available paint matches for the latter, though Ammo By Mig "Silver Gray 0212" claims to be that FS No. However given that I must now have well over 300 tins/bottles/jars of paint I have no wish to buy any more if I can help it so I would be very interested to hear if there is any alternative paint that would be suitable. One suggested solution from various searches of online paint converters seems to be 5*Hu:34 + 1*Hu:156 + 1*Hu:64, whilst others are Hu127, Tamiya XF66 and Gunze H308.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Pete

Edited February 1, 2020 by PeterB

[stevej60]

Well it looks a good kit in the box Pete,scheme a bit lacklustre wonder if there's much in the way of aftermarket decals?

Edit.nothing other than Hannants with one set almost twice the price I paid for the kit!

Edited February 3, 2020 by stevej60

[PeterB]

Hi Steve,

As of today Hannants only list 1 sheet for the JA version, it's by Moose Republic and costs £13.80, and it is out of stock! I will live with the kit ones if they work - doesn't matter if we have 2 or more with the same markings. In I think my Draken build thread I asked about the markings for that kit, and as an aside asked if the large dayglo red markings on this kit were correct - apparently they are as they were worried about collisions when the fighters were "playing" with each other - same applied to the grey Drakens as well. They did not feel the same risk existed for the attack versions so they were rather more muted, though one of the options on my attack Lansen dec sheet has a large daylo red tail number. I would imagine they would have been painted over if a war started as they are too ruddy obvious and seriously compromise the camo scheme.

 

Pete

 

Looks like our edits "crossed in the post"

Edited February 3, 2020 by PeterB

[Christer A]

On 01/02/2020 at 23:38, PeterB said:

Hi Guys,

 

The impression I get is that the Gripen was slightly darker on top - the IPMS match of FS36173 equates to Hu 156 "RAF Dark Camo Grey" as on Tornados, Gunze H82 "Dark Gray", or Xtracolour X158 "AMC Battle Gray" - not sure about the undersurfaces which they say are FS 36373. As mentioned in my post Italeri says for my Gripen kit Dark Ghost Gray over Light Ghost Gray which is not quite the same. No doubt our "Nordic" experts can help with this -please!

 

I am pretty well informed on RAF, USAF, Luftwaffe, Reggia Aeronautica and JNAF/JAAF colours but all at sea with modern Swedish colours. In a post on one of the Draken threads somebody said that as they were operating at lower levels than the Viggen, the grey Drakens were painted in the same grey as the Viggen but with about 10% black added -  the same may be true of the Gripen, but I am only guessing as I know very little about the plane. This entire GB is a voyage of discovery for me, but fortunately we have the help of some excellent "guides". Also, my kit is a Gripen A in spite of 3 out of 4 of the dec options being for a C - not sure if there was any change in paintwork along with the upgrade to "NATO standards" and in flight refuelling. For what it is worth the "Two Bobs" decal sheet I just bought (thanks Dave) states like the IPMS Stockholm site that the correct colours are FS 36173 on top  and FS36373 underneath but shows no available paint matches for the latter, though Ammo By Mig "Silver Gray 0212" claims to be that FS No. However given that I must now have well over 300 tins/bottles/jars of paint I have no wish to buy any more if I can help it so I would be very interested to hear if there is any alternative paint that would be suitable. One suggested solution from various searches of online paint converters seems to be 5*Hu:34 + 1*Hu:156 + 1*Hu:64, whilst others are Hu127, Tamiya XF66 and Gunze H308.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Pete

Let's see if I can muddle the waters regarding the grey period of Swedish Air Force.

(I'll ignore prototypes and test camouflages, or we would be at it for ages)

JA37 Viggen (and one SF37 Viggen)

Grå (Grey) 032M undersides

Grå (grey) 033M top side

Note, the 033M faded a lot!

Usually the ID number is repeated on the fin with large orange letters (not on SF37)

 

J35J Draken

Grå (Grey) 032M undersides

Grå (grey) 033M +10% Black for top side

Note, the top color faded a lot, and quite fast too!

Usually the ID number is repeated on the fin with large orange letters

 

JAS-39A Gripen, serial 39102-391030

Black nose, red serials on fin, blue/yellow crownmarks

Duvgrå (dove grey) 5431-14M undersides

Pansargrå (tank grey) 5431-17M top sides

(I'm not 100% sure about this, since they do look a bit different compared to below)

JAS-39A Gripen, serial 39131-391XX and

JAS-39C Gripen

Low-viz markings

Duvgrå (dove grey) 5431-14M undersides

Pansargrå (tank grey) 5431-17M top sides

 

What this means in model paints is another question!

However, for the ones willing to shell out the big bucks there is the option of MrPaint which has airbrush ready paints with the correct names and are supposedly correct.

 

For unfaded 032/033, Humbrol 147 and Humbrol 128 is a good match or perhaps FS 36473 +36793

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=36473+36493

 

Gripen is a bit darker than that, but FS 36173 and 36373 is close

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=36173+36373

 

 

Or just choose a picture, and mix your own paint...

 

 

[PeterB]

Thanks Christer that is a great help.

 

Of course different makes of paint and even different batches of the same make tend to vary so as you say it is going to be a case of trial and error, and go with what seems right to me. I gather the Mr Paint is good, but it is not cheap and I would rather use something I already have.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[PeterB]

Hi Tim,

 

Looks like you were right - on closer inspection the three crowns discs are not only a rather wrong colour but also out of register! Looks like I will have to print some myself.

 

Pete

Edited February 5, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

I spent the morning shopping, having used my bus pass to travel the 12 miles to my LMS for free – old age does have some benefits. Unfortunately. when I got back my wife decided to build some flat pack furniture, but as she is not much good with a screwdriver I of course ended up doing it – not IKEA I fear so I won't include it as a separate build. So anyway I eventually made a start on the Viggen, having got some more glue and paint. I actually painted the interior yesterday.

 

The cockpit is fairly basic – tub, seat, stick and IP, and unlike the Lansen Heller have not moulded any detail on the side consoles – I guess the newest re-boxings will have got decals as has the Lansen. The whole assembly is glued on top of the nose well and was easy enough to fit though care is needed with the alignment. At the back Heller have been lazy – they have moulded the deflector petals fully closed, and although I could probably open them or replace them, there is no detail on the jetpipe and I am trying to do this OOB so I will probably leave them. At least they included the petals, unlike Airfix.

 

As I mentioned earlier the original kit had optional single and two seat layouts so there is a big hole at the top of the fuselage which the appropriate insert goes in to. Unfortunately, as with similar kits I have built in the past, this makes the fuselage alignment difficult so I have glued in tabs at the bottom to help. After that it will be tape and clamps to get it aligned (I hope). I have painted everything, probably in the wrong colours, but it will do for me. Here are the halves ready to be glued. There is no mention of ballast but I have put 4g in front of the cockpit. Room for plenty more in the nose cone if needed. I took the seat out after a dry run as it looked like it might interfere with the fit of the upper fuselage insert - easy enough to put in later.

I also joined the wings. They are commendably thin but have no locating pins, though they are easy enough to align. One puzzle is that the lower wing does not quite go all the way to the tip, leaving a slight “trench” effect inboard of the slightly curved down outer leading edge. It seems to be deliberate but I do not have any good views of the underside of the wing to see if it is correct. You might just be able to make it out in this pic. Is the "dog tooth extension" some sort of slat perhaps? I also noticed that the ailerons/spoilers or whatever do not go all the way to the tip either but that seems to be correct, at least for the JA.37.   Heller have sort of half boxed in the wheel wells but I will do a little work to improve them once the wings are in place..

So, after some delay it is moving at last - should not take that long to put together - I hope. Time to see how well it goes together. Incidentally the instructions are pretty poor. I get the impression that they were designed by somebody who has never built a kit in their life. Positioning of some parts it vague and ambiguous such as the cannon pod and the "symmetrical assembly" part numbers are thoroughly confusing, at least to me - that's where they put the left and right side part numbers next to each other such as with the intaskes and leave you to work out which is actually which. They tell you to fit the nose u/c leg whilst joining the fuselage which is not only not required as you can fit it later, but also risks it being broken and they also tell you to fit the windscreen at the same time - which is a recipe for a glued up mess. Incidentally, on the subject of the nose gear I had to look at pictures to find out which side the scissors goes as their diagram does not show that at all - it actually seems to go on the right hand side instead of the normal in front or behind. Hopefully they will have been revised to go with the new decals I presume are in recent boxings.

 

Pete

Edited September 26, 2021 by PeterB

[PeterB]

So, with a little low cunning, a fair bit of brute force, and a lot of patience this is where I have got to so far.

The fit is actually not that bad but it took a lot of work. I found that the fuselage spine insert cut-out was longer on one side than the other, and that I had to lengthen the short one by filing the rear end down, otherwise the alignment at the cockpit end would have been wrong. I overdid it slightly so a little filler will be needed. The lower wing centre section also needed a couple of strokes with a file to make the wings sit symmetrically, and the upper wing to fuselage joint will also need just a touch of filler, but otherwise not bad.

 

Possibly because of moulding difficulties back in the day, the intakes are moulded in two halves split vertically which is far from ideal and leaves a seam inside and out. Fortunately they are open ended so I can fill and file them. Likewise I will have to do a little filling in the rear of the tail pipe, but hopefully Perfect Plastic Putty should do the trick and can be smoothed with a damp cotton wool bud. The air brakes are not a brilliant fit and I am pretty sure that the numbers either on the sprue or the instructions are the wrong way round. - good job I dry fitted them before gluing.

 

This is another of those kits with pitot tubes etc moulded on and just waiting to be broken. However I have a set of Master brass ones to fit so I have carefully cut off the nose one already and kept it just in case – the brass ones are very thin but not quite as fragile as those I bought for the Draken! I will sort out the vertical tail one before I fit it. Coming together quite well so far and should be ready for priming before long with luck.

 

Thanks for watching.

 

Pete

Edited September 26, 2021 by PeterB

[trickyrich]

that little bit of extra work is paying off, keep up the great work

[Rabbit Leader]

Nice progress Pete and some sound tips and advice being offered just like we used to read in those old scale model kit reviews. 

Cheers.. Dave
 

[PeterB]

Wow,

 

This GB is certainly moving - turn your back for an hour or so and you are already on the second page! It is beginning to look like a Viggen now -

The nose is just a push fit for the moment, but everything is about in place except the undercarriage, canopy and weapons. It has gone together pretty well although the left hand air intake is a poor fit and needed scraping, filling and sanding. We will find out if that worked once the primer goes on. You can see how I used a little filler to close up the gaps in the wheel bays, as the walls Heller moulded did not quite do the job..

 

Pete

Edited September 26, 2021 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Having primed it dark grey, I made a start on the painting and therein lies a saga - well it is a "Nordic GB after all!😀 Heller say to use Humbrol 127 aka "US Ghost Grey" on the uppers but the concensus of the advice I have been given earlier in the thread goes with Humbrol 128 aka "US Compass Grey", with Hu 147 "Light Grey". unders. I had tins of all 3 in my cabinet albeit at least 20 years old, but when I opened them only the 127 was really viable.  This was the main reason for the trip to Cardiff I mentioned on Friday, as Antics have once more started selling Humbrol paints - yes they were for a couple of years an LMS who did not sell Humbrol paints - unheard of! Unfortunately, when I got there they had neither 127 or 128 so maybe Humbol are out of stock at the moment, or maybe a lot of local modellers are building either F15 or Viggens. So it was back to the drawing board, and therein lies a puzzle.

 

Many years ago I build the Hasegawa F15A and the colour readout as I remember called for both dark and light "Compass Ghost Gray" Digging around in my references I can find both those colours though in some cases they are just called "Compass Gray" so I wondered exactly what Humbrol think 127 and 128 are. The answer according to at least one source (Cybermodeller) is that 127 is in fact Light Compass Gray and 128 is Dark Compass Gray so I tested them, and decided to use the Xtracrylic version of the latter which I bought fairly recently. As to the undersides I did a test and found that Xtracrylic  "Light Grey FS16495" is virtually identical to the small amount of Hu 147 I had left so I have used that.

I have glued the main undercarriage on and tested the balance and it is fine so the nose is now glued in place, though it will need a little filler. Incidentally the grey is somewhat "whiter" in real life.

 

Normally I would airbrush the paints to get a soft demarcation around the nose, but my old airbrush is showing its age and has started spitting. Because of this my family bought me a new one for Christmas, but the ruddy thing does not work and is away for repair/replacement/refund. I have therefore decided to brush most of the paint on with a hairy stick, having thinned it first, and then have a go at airbrushing the nose only - not ideal but should work. I think I will try the "worms of white tac" masking method this time to get a soft edge.

 

I presume the Sidewinders will be either light grey if live or green if practice ones, as with the Falcons on my Draken? Heller say white with Hu 127 noses. The pics I was sent when building the Draken seem to show white or light gret noses and either dark grey/black or green bodies!  I will also have to check the position of the inner wheel doors as Heller's instructions are not at all clear - they could be closed or hanging down.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

PS - does anybody know it the pylons and rails Heller provide for the Sidewinders under the fuselage would be suitable for Skyflash/AMRAAM - the pylons look the same in walkrounds but not sure if the rails are the same size?

Edited September 26, 2021 by PeterB

[Rabbit Leader]

Looks good from here Pete. Just asking, did you need to put any nose weight in? Seems like the main gear is quite far back so possibly no need to add any nose ballast. 
Cheers.. Dave 

[PeterB]

Hi Dave,

 

I put 4g of lead in front of the IP and there was room for a bit more, not to mention room in the nose cone as well - Heller did not mention ballast. Perhaps they hoped the "bicycle wheel" main gear would hold it up - it certainly would help I guess.

 

Pete

[reini]

@PeterB Looking good! I've lost count how many Saab's you've already made - and how many are still to be done - but this one seems to be ready soon also 

 

About the weapons, green is for practice ones yes.

 

And the inner rear wheel doors, I would say closed. I remember there might be a slight droop for non-powered aircraft but better check your references.