Ex-FAAWAFU Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 17 hours ago, hendie said: and you could take all the seats out by simply removing a small pin - and use them as picnic chairs. Sure. But you wouldn’t want to go flying in one. Even to a picnic. 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 I never wanted to go driving in one However, as to seats in helicopters this is causing me too much head scratching Obviously we can see the frames on these seats from the front With what appears to be canvas sheets hanging down from the front frame, maybe they are the seat panels huh? But, and it is a big butt (sorry, inappropriate oddball 'umour time there for a minute) when seen from a different angle (Thank the lord for different angles) We get this Same seats, same airframe but stay! What tin for yonder buttocks glows... Steel sheet seats with fifteen holes in em for bums on seats to situpon, I am wondering whether the canvas sheets were intended to cover a piece of kapok or suchlike as padding for the much maligned squaddies who had the 'pleasure' of riding around, down the back? I am pondering painting the seats and frames on squares of clear perspex glued strategically along the walls Ponderation time approaches I had the pleasure of spending quality time yesterday at Halifax with Steve (Fritag) Mark (Cheshiretaurus) and Garth of dr_gn fame To think I was waffling instead of picking three brilliant minds about these seats, I must be as mad as my owner says... 9 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 Brass I have ordered some brass shim this morning and already got the Albion Alloys .3mm tube 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I guess the frames with the canvas inserts fold back over the solid bit with holes in, which then all folds back to stow? Can't really think of a reason for the canvas bits though other than to retain any underseat stored items? Wild guesses Terry But whats weird is the metal bit with holes in bows downwards when deployed, but outwards when up. That can't work the way I said? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 Now I need to find low melting point solder The shim is going to be cut into thin strips and the tubesoldered along each edge This will leave me a strip of pretubed seating panel which I will part off to length and then put the front cross rail on with low melt so the side rails don't come off I am definitely going to need guidance at that point As a retired engineer (in various guises) soldering has no fears for me but low temperature stuff is a different ball game So any soldering fellows, does my plan sound feasible? The reason for doing this with brass rather than plastic is almost entirely because the seats and rails are curved not straight Otherwise you would already be looking at some finished placky ones 😞😱😒😵😟 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Terry1954 said: I guess the frames with the canvas inserts fold back over the solid bit with holes in, which then all folds back to stow? Can't really think of a reason for the canvas bits though other than to retain any underseat stored items? Wild guesses Terry Confusing innit? Why am I almost pining for Chinook seating huh? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Actually when I look again I realise there is a double curve in the seat pan, so I guess it would work, but still baffled by the canvas. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, perdu said: Now I need to find low melting point solder The shim is going to be cut into thin strips and the tubesoldered along each edge This will leave me a strip of pretubed seating panel which I will part off to length and then put the front cross rail on with low melt so the side rails don't come off I am definitely going to need guidance at that point Nigel Heath recommended Eileen's Emporium for their various solders. I got mine from there but yet to use it; won't be long now though I think! They do 70º, 145º and 188º so plenty of choice (I got all three) HTH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 46 minutes ago, perdu said: So any soldering fellows, does my plan sound feasible? The reason for doing this with brass rather than plastic is almost entirely because the seats and rails are curved not straight You're hip to it Daddio. Originally posted a drawing that would make it more complicated than your elegant solution so withdrew the evidence m'lud... 31 minutes ago, CedB said: Nigel Heath recommended Eileen's Emporium for their various solders. Same for me Bill. Although I have sticks of the low-low temp 70 degree stuff they do, my goto stuff on even small parts is usually: https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=953&name=solder-wire-145-deg-pack-5m&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1124 (Just noticed the message on their homepage that no EU orders for now due to Brexit. I should have stocked up...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_W Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I was having issues with solder, then discovered in the back of a shed drawer an old roll inherited from my Father before they banned lead.... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastcat Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Hi Bill, Use a temperature controlled iron and set it to just melt the solder you're using or just a bit above to allow for some of the heat to soak away due to the brass tubes etc. Cut tiny strips of solder using a bit less than you think you'll need (it goes further than you would think) and wrap them round the tube or if you're fixing the shim to the tube, all along the join. I use Baker's fluid for a flux. It's quite fierce but gives a great joint. Run it along where you want the solder to be. Apply heat and you should get a nice neat joint. Alternatively, pre tin the tube or shim, hold them together and apply heat until the solder flows. When you're satisfied with the joints, scrub the whole thing carefully with an old toothbrush to get rid of any flux residue. Try not to use the toothbrush again for cleaning your teeth. The flux gives it a funny taste. If you use ordinary solder for the frame and low melting point for attaching stuff afterwards you should be fine. Have a little practice with some scrap first. There are dedicated fluxes for the different melting point solders but I've never bothered with them. Use a fine tip on the iron if it's changeable. Have fun. Dave 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 Oh David you do make it all sound so easy mate Thanks for the expo though, I'm in the process of sorting out exactly what I will need Maybe I should just bring my bits along to the club then let you "show me how" On all of them 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastcat Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Good idea Bill, never leave your bits behind. The hardest part is holding all the pieces together while you're soldering. When you get that sorted it's fairly easy. It's even easier if you've got more than two hands which I believe some people are blessed with! Dave 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 You refer of course to the Martian of this parish I am sure or do you mean Tomo who managed to do awesome things with a tiny Matchbox biplane? Or the bloke who made that fabtabulous motor bike from club last month? But certainly not Mr Clumsy fingers here 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 Maybe I have been overcomplicating this… Some seat blanks made, ready for the next phase. I made twenty eight to play with, the Bilvedere needing eighteen. Now that's a handy Pozidriver. I gave these a preliminary bending at the edge of the cutting board, the second 'go' will add cyano for stiffness. And holding the legs on! Looks like I might not need to learn low re temperature soldering after all. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Methinks I may have worked out how the seats work! From the stowed one, it looks like the bottom edge (as it appears) is the front, and it's hanging from hooks at its rear - whilst the legs look like they pivot around the bar the canvas is hanging from. So, lift stowed seat off upper brackets, legs swing down, rear hooks attach to lower brackets? The ends of the front edge stick out, the slots correspond with the 'brackets' the tops of the legs disappear into, and the other angle shows a gap at the back - but I can't offer an explanation as to what the canvas is for! Or why the stowage brackets for that seat are higher than the others - which suggests that particular seat is longer (deeper) than the others.... Edited February 18, 2020 by andyf117 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 They look pretty good to me Bill - if you want to bend them more perhaps you could warm the Pozidriver a little bit? Or the plastic? Nice though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastcat Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Looking good and not a soldering iron in sight. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Terry1954 said: Can't really think of a reason for the canvas bits though other than to retain any underseat stored items? Wild guesses Life jacket? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomoshenko Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 They look quite cute Bill. Looking forward to your re-familiarisation with soldering and stuff. Been a long time for me too, and never used the low temperature stuff much either, so it's 🤞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 Hmm, I am in two minds about the brass now because this 'play with plastic instead' session has given me workable results I do not really want to get involved in alien aspects of the modelling game, always said "If I cant make it in plastic I ain't making it..." Still basically of that old fashioned mind set, if we accept that resin casting is using a plastic material We'll see but for now… (Bit of a pity really the brass just popped in through the letter box, almost forgot I ordered it) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomoshenko Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Give the soldering and brasswork a go Bill and if you don't like it go back to plastic, 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, perdu said: Hmm, I am in two minds about the brass now because this 'play with plastic instead' session has given me workable results I do not really want to get involved in alien aspects of the modelling game, always said "If I cant make it in plastic I ain't making it..." Still basically of that old fashioned mind set, if we accept that resin casting is using a plastic material We'll see but for now… (Bit of a pity really the brass just popped in through the letter box, almost forgot I ordered it) Now't wrong wit' old-fashioned mindset, Bill - I much prefer plastic in its various shapes and forms... ....scrap or adaptable items from the spares box(es); sprue (stretched or original); card, rod and strips... ....as you're aware, I'll happily cast my own resin items - but that's mainly for convenience when I require multiples - but as for brass... ....I've got various etch detail sets that I've done no more than looked at - I wouldn't even entertain the thought of making my own bits! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 Well now I have several sheets (sheetlets?) of very thin brass and some brass tubes but suddenly out of no-where I have this A bit washed out by the flash but surely enough raw materiel for 18 seats… 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 Ah what just happened? Again? No not the green things That shiny effort about eight o'clock Looks as if I cut some 2 thou brass by mistake, shoulda been 3 thou at least if not 5... To pander to you weird beggars back there in the corner I ordered some solder paste This is as obsessed as it gets, at least for now… A philosophical question for all the type-writers out here Ellipsises This version from the character bank … … … ? Or the traditional hit stop three times method ... ... ...? … ... … ... … ... ? (This question arises from a discussion with the touch typist in the family, shared thoughts might help) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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