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OK already the once again enjoyable Bristle Bilvedere


perdu

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17 hours ago, hendie said:

 

and you could take all the seats out by simply removing a small pin - and use them as picnic chairs.

Sure.  But you wouldn’t want to go flying in one.  Even to a picnic.

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I never wanted to go driving in one

 

 

 

However, as to seats in helicopters this is causing me too much head scratching

Obviously we can see the frames on these seats from the front

b30.JPG

 

With what appears to be canvas sheets hanging down from the front frame, maybe they are the seat panels huh?

 

But, and it is a big butt (sorry, inappropriate oddball 'umour time there for a minute) when seen from a different angle

 

(Thank the lord for different angles) We get this

 

Same seats, same airframe but stay!

 

What tin for yonder buttocks glows...

belvxg452coccab34.jpg

 

Steel sheet seats with fifteen holes in em for bums on seats to situpon, I am wondering whether the canvas sheets were intended to cover a piece of kapok or suchlike as padding for the much maligned squaddies who had the 'pleasure' of riding around, down the back?

 

I am pondering painting the seats and frames on squares of clear perspex glued strategically along the walls

 

 

Ponderation time approaches

 

I had  the pleasure of spending quality time yesterday at Halifax with Steve (Fritag) Mark (Cheshiretaurus) and Garth of dr_gn fame

 

To think I was waffling instead of picking three brilliant minds about these seats, I must be as mad as my owner says...

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I guess the frames with the canvas inserts fold back over the solid bit with holes in, which then all folds back to stow? Can't really think of a reason for the canvas bits though other than to retain any underseat stored items?

 

Wild guesses

 

Terry

 

But whats weird is the metal bit with holes in bows downwards when deployed, but outwards when up. That can't work the way I said?

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Now I need to find low melting point solder

The shim is going to be cut into thin strips and the tubesoldered along each edge

This will leave me a strip of pretubed seating panel which I will part off to length and then put the front cross rail on with low melt so the side rails don't come off

 

I am definitely going to need guidance at that point

 

As a retired engineer (in various guises) soldering has no fears for me but low temperature stuff is a different ball game

 

So any soldering fellows, does my plan sound feasible?

 

The reason for doing this with brass rather than plastic is almost entirely because the seats and rails are curved not straight

 

Otherwise you would already be looking at some finished placky ones

 

😞😱😒😵😟

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1 minute ago, Terry1954 said:

I guess the frames with the canvas inserts fold back over the solid bit with holes in, which then all folds back to stow? Can't really think of a reason for the canvas bits though other than to retain any underseat stored items?

 

Wild guesses

 

Terry

Confusing innit?

 

Why am I almost pining for Chinook seating huh?

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10 minutes ago, perdu said:

Now I need to find low melting point solder

The shim is going to be cut into thin strips and the tubesoldered along each edge

This will leave me a strip of pretubed seating panel which I will part off to length and then put the front cross rail on with low melt so the side rails don't come off

 

I am definitely going to need guidance at that point

Nigel Heath recommended Eileen's Emporium for their various solders. I got mine from there but yet to use it; won't be long now though I think!

They do 70º, 145º and 188º so plenty of choice (I got all three)

 

HTH

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46 minutes ago, perdu said:

So any soldering fellows, does my plan sound feasible?

 

The reason for doing this with brass rather than plastic is almost entirely because the seats and rails are curved not straight

You're hip to it Daddio. :thumbsup2:

Originally posted a drawing that would make it more complicated than your elegant solution so withdrew the evidence m'lud...

 

31 minutes ago, CedB said:

Same for me Bill. :nodding:

Although I have sticks of the low-low temp 70 degree stuff they do, my goto stuff on even small parts is usually:

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=953&name=solder-wire-145-deg-pack-5m&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1124

 

(Just noticed the message on their homepage that no EU orders for now due to Brexit. :sad: I should have stocked up...)

 

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Hi Bill,

                     Use a temperature controlled iron and set it to just melt the solder you're using or just a bit above to allow for some of the heat to soak away due to the brass tubes etc. Cut tiny strips of solder using a bit less than you think you'll need (it goes further than you would think) and wrap them round the tube or if you're fixing the shim to the tube, all along the join. I use Baker's fluid for a flux. It's quite fierce but gives a great joint. Run it along where you want the solder to be.

Apply heat and you should get a nice neat joint.

Alternatively, pre tin the tube or shim, hold them together and apply heat until the solder flows.

When you're satisfied with the joints, scrub the whole thing carefully with an old toothbrush to get rid of any flux residue. Try not to use the toothbrush again for cleaning your teeth. The flux gives it a funny taste.

If you use ordinary solder for the frame and low melting point for attaching stuff afterwards you should be fine. Have a little practice with some scrap first.

There are dedicated fluxes for the different melting point solders but I've never bothered with them.

Use a fine tip on the iron if it's changeable.

Have fun.

 

Dave

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Oh David you do make it all sound so easy mate

 

Thanks for the expo though, I'm in the process of sorting out exactly what I will need

Maybe I should just bring my bits along to the club then let you "show me how"

 

On all of them

 

:)

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Good idea Bill, never leave your bits behind.

The hardest part is holding all the pieces together while you're soldering. When you get that sorted it's fairly easy. It's even easier if you've got more than two hands which I believe some people are blessed with!

Dave

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You refer of course to the Martian of this parish I am sure

 

or do you mean Tomo who managed to do awesome things with a tiny Matchbox biplane?

 

Or the bloke who made that fabtabulous motor bike from club last month?

 

But certainly not Mr Clumsy fingers here

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Maybe I have been overcomplicating this…

 

Some seat blanks made, ready for the next phase.

P1010311.jpg

 

I made twenty eight to play with, the Bilvedere needing eighteen.

P1010312.jpg

 

 

Now that's a handy Pozidriver.

 

P1010314.jpg

 

I gave these a preliminary bending at the edge of the cutting board, the second 'go' will add cyano for stiffness.

 

And holding the legs on!


Looks like I might not need to learn low re temperature soldering after all.

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Methinks I may have worked out how the seats work! From the stowed one, it looks like the bottom edge (as it appears) is the front, and it's hanging from hooks at its rear - whilst the legs look like they pivot around the bar the canvas is hanging from. So, lift stowed seat off upper brackets, legs swing down, rear hooks attach to lower brackets?

 

The ends of the front edge stick out, the slots correspond with the 'brackets' the tops of the legs disappear into, and the other angle shows a gap at the back - but I can't offer an explanation as to what the canvas is for! Or why the stowage brackets for that seat are higher than the others - which suggests that particular seat is longer (deeper) than the others....

Edited by andyf117
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They look pretty good to me Bill - if you want to bend them more perhaps you could warm the Pozidriver a little bit?

Or the plastic?

 

Nice though :) 

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Hmm, I am in two minds about the brass now because this 'play with plastic instead' session has given me workable results

 

I do not really want to get involved in alien aspects of the modelling game, always said "If I cant make it in plastic I ain't making it..."

 

Still basically of that old fashioned mind set, if we accept that resin casting is using a plastic material

 

 

 

We'll see but for now…

 

(Bit of a pity really the brass just popped in through the letter box, almost forgot I ordered it)  :)

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2 hours ago, perdu said:

Hmm, I am in two minds about the brass now because this 'play with plastic instead' session has given me workable results

 

I do not really want to get involved in alien aspects of the modelling game, always said "If I cant make it in plastic I ain't making it..."

 

Still basically of that old fashioned mind set, if we accept that resin casting is using a plastic material

 

 

 

We'll see but for now…

 

(Bit of a pity really the brass just popped in through the letter box, almost forgot I ordered it)  :)

Now't wrong wit' old-fashioned mindset, Bill - I much prefer plastic in its various shapes and forms...

....scrap or adaptable items from the spares box(es); sprue (stretched or original); card, rod and strips...

....as you're aware, I'll happily cast my own resin items - but that's mainly for convenience when I require multiples - but as for brass...

....I've got various etch detail sets that I've done no more than looked at - I wouldn't even entertain the thought of making my own bits!

 

 

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Well now I have several sheets (sheetlets?) of very thin brass and some brass tubes but suddenly out of no-where I have this

P1010315.jpg

A bit washed out by the flash but surely enough raw materiel for 18 seats…

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Ah what just happened?

Again?

P1010317.jpg

 

No not the green things

 

That shiny effort about eight o'clock

 

Looks as if I cut some 2 thou brass by mistake, shoulda been 3 thou at least if not 5...

 

To pander to you weird beggars back there in the corner I ordered some solder paste

 

This is as obsessed as it gets, at least for now…

 

 A philosophical question for all the type-writers out here

 

Ellipsises

 

This version from the character bank  … … … ?

 

Or the traditional hit stop three times method  ... ... ...?

...

...

...

?

 

 

(This question arises from a discussion with the touch typist in the family, shared thoughts might help)

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