Primer woes, Have searched

[melvyn hiscock]

I have only recently come back into the hobby after a gap of a few millennia, and, generally, I am getting in ok. I am mastering the use of the airbrush, getting results I like and which are improving and there remains one problem.

 

I have done a lot of searching on here, with regards to this, so please don’t think this is a cba to investigate, this is the result of those investigations.

 

In my old days I was an enamel, straight into plastic with a brush man. In fact most of us were. I soon realised that this is not the case if trying to brush acrylics (generally Tamiya). So I needed primer. First attempts a few years ago were Humbrol rattle followed by Humbrol rattle acrylic from a can and all back to the shelf of doom.

 

Now with much more time in my hands due to illness, I invested in the stuff I need to do it properly. I did make the mistake of thinking Tamiya Matt Base was a primer- won’t do that again, and have trouble locally getting Tamiya primer at all. 

 

I have successfully used humbrol rattle can once, but the uncontrollable nature and the occasional spittiness puts me off a bit and she who must be worshipped (as she buys me kits and biscuits and makes me coffee) is concerned about the amount of overspray.

 

so I did a loooooong search in here and saw a reference to Zeropaints great airbrush primer being the mutts nuts, so a few days and the best part of twenty quid later a tin arrived. It sprays ok, right from the tin, gives a good finish and then, regardless of what

you spray over the top, pulls off back to the plastic with the slightest effort on the masking tape (literally touching it so that it tacks, and this is Tamiya tape, so not that sticky. This just happened on the plywood side of my WNW Camel. The finish was ‘primer’ a thin coat of Tamiya base colour, oil streaking, allowed to dry and then Pledged, before very light masking. 

 

Various areas of wing have also stripped but I have patched these by brush as they’ll look like repairs.

 

I did get some Mr Hobby Mr Surfacer but have not tried spraying this as I am not sure what thinner or gun cleaner to use.

 

so, without rattle can, what are my options? 

 

Zeropaints users, am I mixing wrong? Applying too thick? Not shaking that ball bearing in the can for ten minutes only two?

 

Mr surfacer users, will I be able to spray this without gumming up the gun? Will it still strip off?

 

any help, on here or PM is gratefully received

 

[ckw]

I use Mr Surfacer (1000 or 1200) as my standard primer. Used it with Mr Hobby and Tamiya acrylics. as well as Humbrol and Colourcoats enamels with no problems at all with paint lifting on masking.

 

I apply with an airbrush having thinned it to so it is as runny as acrylic paint prepared for airbrush use (so a little goes a long way). I use Mr Color levelling thinner. For cleaning I use cellulose thinner.

 

I have a cheapo chinese airbrush (which came free with my compressor) used for this purpose only, as I was worried about gumming up the works, but this hasn't been a problem - but I'm sticking with it as the wider spray pattern is great for priming.

 

I do find some issues with tip dry, so keep a cotton bud and thinner to hand while spraying.

 

The finish is superb and can be polished with very fine sandpaper (or even just a cloth).

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

[JamesP]

For me a primer must be sandable which therefore rules out every polyurethane/water based rubbish out there, they made spray well but unless I can fixed errors in my joints and filling they are useless to me - I don't build a lot "Tamiya" grade modern kits

 

I've used Halfords grey primer for years but it's not easy to on small fiddly models, I've therefore looked for airbrushable alternatively. I used Alclad Primer/Microfiller a lot but the surface can be quite gritty and requires knocking back with >1000grit, this make it unsuitable for surfaces with a lot of raised detail. AK Primer and microfiller is my current goes too, this goes on very easily and has a fine flat finish which requires little or no extra prep before adding colour.

[Troy Smith]

34 minutes ago, melvyn hiscock said:

without rattle can, what are my options? 

Just as an aside re rattle cans,  I think it was @BIG X was talking about how much easier it was to use a rattle can with a pistol grip attachment

 

Quote

Makes spray painting easier and can be firmly fitted to all standard spray cans, giving control over the amount, speed and direction of the spray paint. Can be used time and again. Comfortable trigger action allows even and continuous spraying.

 

As for overspray, just use a large cardboard box and/or do outside.  

 

@ckw  use of Mr Surfacer is a good idea,  I have just used standard Halfords Grey primer.    Note it is possible to decant spray cans paint for use in a airbrush as well,  just spray into a small jar, and then use in airbrush.

 

Sorry, not a direct answer,  but perhaps some useful info anyway.

 

HTH

[Mike]

37 minutes ago, JamesP said:

For me a primer must be sandable which therefore rules out every polyurethane/water based rubbish out there, they made spray well but unless I can fixed errors in my joints and filling they are useless to me

With the exception of the UItimate Primer range, which can be sanded back.  I think there's a pic of the results from my review of it some time back

 

I use Alclad grey, white and black primers when I'm not using the above, which are lacquers and are ready to spray out of the bottle/can (I lose track of what they supply them in as it changes).  You clean up with cellulose thinners, which is the same as for Mr Surfacer.  If you've got the bottles rather than the rattle cans of that, you can thin that with Mr Leveling Thinner (sic), which for around a tenner a bottle is expensive, but a little goes a long way, especially if you don't use it to clean your brush.  You can also use that to thin Tamiya, Mr Color, AK Real Color MRP, and a few other synthetic lacquers/acrylics, but don't try it on latex based acrylics unless you really like rubbery/goops of paint that wouldn't spray through a drainpipe.  Plus-point is that as well as having self-levelling properties, it doesn't smell bad, which is always nice.

 

As a quick spot primer, I use Tamiya Fine Surface Primer too, so that's a nice easy option that gets easier if you use the trigger gadget mentioned by Troy.

[bmwh548]

Mr. Surfacer (1000 or 1200 depending on what the stores have in stock) has been my go to primer for years.  Never had any issues with it. I use Mr. Leveling thinner to dilute it (normally it's a 50-50 mix, but sometimes I'll do 30 primer to 70 thinner - especially during the summer). Mr. Surfacer 500 is also good to have in your stash as it can fill up gaps that are too small for putty. It dries sort of semigloss-y.

I have also used AK's grey primer. The advantage here is that you can use it straight from the bottle, however I've never liked how fast the pigment separates and drops to the bottom (requiring an insane amount of shaking after prolonged storage). This one dries completely flat and with a darker shade than Mr. Surfacer.

Both dry really fast, both have amazing grip (never peeled them off plastic using masking tape), both can be sanded to fix issues.

Standard lacquer thinner can be used for cleaning the airbrush (but be careful as it can eat up rubber seals, so don't soak it unless you have something equipped with special seals).

[melvyn hiscock]

Thanks so much and for coming back so quickly. I rally should be spraying up bits of old plastic card. There are a few models I want to make and, as a cancer patient, whilst I still might have years to go, I might not. I desperately await the WNW SPAD XIII ( yeah I know we all do) but having been involved with the Memorial Flight Asscn for over 30 years, I want to do that, the Camel is a 54 sq and I have a 54 sq diary upstairs, I have the ‘Bavarian’ limited edition as we (Mem Flight)actually have what remains of the striped one (identified by no body in the wreck, and Prussian blue drips on the motor!) I shall do the Gnome Pup as Balfour’s as my grandfather used to watch over the Fence at Gosport and, as an ex PPL, I learned on that very syllabus (if you are a pilot go to the bar of the Alverbank  Hotel in Gosport, that is where the syllabus was written and drink a toast to your licence, and the Gosport tube was designed and tested there, then there is the current Tamiya Spitfire VIII, in the colours of Neville Duke’s JG241, so I want to get them right, they all have a connection. I have mentioned, probably more than a few times, that being at Popham and also working on Aeroplane I was lucky enough to get to know Neville in first name terms and he was a worthy man to have as a hero. Forget most of the rest. He was a true gentleman, and funny.

 

There may be more, space in our tiny flat is more of a problem than time, but I am not making guitars any more so need to do something with my hands!

 

[melvyn hiscock]

Just a quick update on here. I managed to get through the WNW Camel without too many stripped primer woes and I want to than each of you for your input.

 

However, on one thread I read Zero Paints light grey primer, airbrush ready. The poster said it was just about the best thing going. He was close-on raving about it.

 

THIS IS MY OPINION BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE

 

i would not touch this again and it was a complete waste of £20. Just in case it was user error, I did a side by side yesterday. 

 

Sprayed onto old, but untreated plastic card I sprayed some Zero Paint and some lightly thinned Mr Surfacer.

 

There is a warning in the Zero Paints tin to remind that mixing, by shaking the ball bearing in the can, should be done so I did this for a full, timed, two minutes.

 

The Mr Surfacer did take a while to dry, but my thinner mixing was less than scientific.  

 

When both were dry, I blew on a coat of Tamiya acrylic. Let that dry out and then laid down a length of standard Tamiya masking tape, rubbed the edges down with just finger pressure and pulled. 

 

The paint on the mr Surfacer side was perfect. No lift whatsoever. 

 

The Zero Paints side had no adhesion whatsoever and the tape not only removed both coats but clearly wanted to lift more. I think I could have got a sharp scalpel blade underneath and pulled it off in strips. 

 

So, in the interests of being fair to all parties. If Zero Paints want to comment I will happily share that information as they have the right to answer.

 

But I would not use it again and am stuck with a tin. I suppose I could use it when there is no fear of needing to mask over it, but I was less than impressed.

 

i hope this helps anyone else with my problem.

 

Melvyn

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by melvyn hiscock

[Mark Harmsworth]

I use acrylic paints, sometimes Tamiya, and I can definitely recommend Ultimate primers - which are great.

Mark

[Matthew1974]

I use Vallejo's polyurethane primers, mainly in order to encourage a better bond between the subsequent Vallejo paint layers.  If I need to sand a seam after spraying the primer coat, I must wait a week to ten days for the polyurethane primer to fully cure before attempting repairs.  If the primer is not fully cured, as soon as you start sanding, it will peel up in sheets.  Its really weird stuff, but I use it because Vallejo Acrylics like to bond to it.  Mr. Surfacer is what I read most modelers prefer.