Tomahawk Aerials? (and general aerial technique!)

[BikingLampy]

Coming to the close of an Aldi special Airfix Tomahawk IIb kit in 1/72, and I'm a little confused about aerials. I'm doing the OOB version - F GA from 112 Squadron in Libya (PO Neville Duke). 

 

Being a starter kit, Airfix give no aerial details. Pictures of the real thing I've found are indistinct (post crash!) and the assorted model builds I've looked at seem to do a variety of things, most of which ignore the existing radio mast (or delete it) and just have the wires going from the tail to the wingtips. An aftermarket decal set (AML) suggests a wire from the mast to the tail as well.

 

Googling "Curtiss Tomahawk aerials" brings up an old BM thread which suggests the radios weren't fitted, but I think that was only for Far East Flying Tiger 'craft,

 

...which kinda begs the question - why is it so different to an equivalent era UK based plane (eg Spitfire) . Weren't the radios standardised across the RAF? 

 

..and then modelling technique.. I've tried stretching sprue before, which I've had average to poor results with. I've been nicking the moultings from my (long haired) girlfriend to make hairials, but they go saggy with ambient temp. changes, so I'm set to buy some Uschi line. However I'm concerned about attaching it neatly and effectively to a nearly finished model - especially onto the blank area near the wingtips, where I'm not going to want a big old dab of glue showing, and I'll also need to hold it, under tension, steady enough for long enough to set. Ideas would be gratefully appreciated.

 

I'm currently out of superglue, so any favoured brands best for the job would be taken onboard too - I've just been buying the 3 packs of Loctite from Sainsburys up to now, and have had mixed attempts at doing anything delicate with it - either I apply it direct from the tube and risk it flooding everywhere, or I'm faffing around with needles or cocktail sticks and by the time I get the glue near the model it's dry...

 

Thank y'all!

 

BL

Edited January 26, 2020 by BikingLampy

[kingcanberra]

Detail and Scale (Vol 62 copyright 1999) shows the P40F with wing tip to fin wires and the P40L with mast to fin wire.  The MBI P40 shows the F with mast to fin and in some cases a second wire from aft of the mast to the fin (extended fuselage) or from the fin to the stabiliser tips (short fuselage). also seems to show all sorts of combinations thereof for various subversions.  The profile of ?.GA serail FX740 shows mast and fuselage to fin tip wires, but adds wire aerials above and below the aft fuselage.

 

It looks as if it varied with build, service and location!

[72modeler]

Basically, the type of radio installed determined the antenna wire arrangement. Radio/antenna fit is a sorely neglected topic in reference works, but I think the trend towards greater detail and more accurate replicas has made this a current and popular discussion topic.

Mike

[FinnAndersen]

On 1/26/2020 at 9:57 PM, BikingLampy said:

..and then modelling technique.. I've tried stretching sprue before, which I've had average to poor results with. I've been nicking the moultings from my (long haired) girlfriend to make hairials, but they go saggy with ambient temp. changes, so I'm set to buy some Uschi line. However I'm concerned about attaching it neatly and effectively to a nearly finished model - especially onto the blank area near the wingtips, where I'm not going to want a big old dab of glue showing, and I'll also need to hold it, under tension, steady enough for long enough to set. Ideas would be gratefully appreciated...

It's something that requires practice, no doubt about that, but not impossible to master.

 

I heat a piece of a runner (Sprue to some of you) over a candle until a section (1-2 cm) becomes saggy. Then I remove it from the heat and pull the runners apart. Depending on the speed of the pull you get thicker or thinner material. That's the easy part. 

 

Attaching is the hard part. I use superglue to attach one end, usually to the fin, and then gently stretch the material past the aerial, putting a tiny blob of superglue onto the tip of the aerial and then dipping the stretched line in the glue until it settles. Then you can snip the excess off with a pair of fine scissors. It may take a few tries, but don't give up the first time.

 

HTH

Finn

[expositor]

As for stretching sprue, I've found it easiest to heat one end  of a piece, jam it onto a plastic lid from a jar, and pull slowly.  You' ll get a nice thin line, depending on how long you want it.  I find that this method gives a more even thickness, but like the standard way, it just takes a little practice.

[Smithy]

For antennae I use smoke coloured invisible thread (available from a sewing supplies shop), cheap as chips, strong and doesn't sag. I also use it for rigging in 1/72 scale. In terms of CA (super glue), I personally really like Zap-A-Gap and also use their accelerator, Zip Kicker when I do rigging and antenna/radio lines.

[Luka]

I had the same question a while back. The wires are actually connected to small eyelets. In my next build I will probably make these attachment points from tiny sections of thin stretched spue, and then use Ushi thread for the wires themselves.
Although Ushi wire is fiddly, the effect is imho good. Plus, since it's elastic I won't get nervous every time I pick a model from the cabinet.

Got some great help from the BM community in this thread;
https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235065592-p-40-radio-wires/&tab=comments#comment-3538932
 

[Seawinder]

Smoke colored invisible thread (nylon monofilament around .002" diameter) for me as well. I'm not sure whether or not the standard Tomahawk set-up was the same as that of the -E. If so, there would be a wire from fin to fuselage aft of the cockpit and two wires joining the former ahead of the spring and insulator, going to attachment points near the wing tips. These photos may be helpful. What looks like two insulators in the bottom pic is just the reflection.

[ClaudioN]

On 1/26/2020 at 9:57 PM, BikingLampy said:

..and then modelling technique.. I've tried stretching sprue before, which I've had average to poor results with. I've been nicking the moultings from my (long haired) girlfriend to make hairials, but they go saggy with ambient temp. changes, so I'm set to buy some Uschi line. However I'm concerned about attaching it neatly and effectively to a nearly finished model - especially onto the blank area near the wingtips, where I'm not going to want a big old dab of glue showing, and I'll also need to hold it, under tension, steady enough for long enough to set. Ideas would be gratefully appreciated.

It has been some time since I last did this, anyway you can stretch sprue as thin as you wish, as explained above. The problem is getting it taut and straight after glueing (which applies also to biplane rigging).

The trick I learned from old modelling magazines is to hold a (moderate) heat source somewhat close to the sprue: almost suddenly, it pops taut and you're done.

Problem is, in days gone they suggested placing a cigarette nearby, but I'm a non-smoker... anyway, it gives you an idea how much heat is needed. If you do it carefully, it should work first time.

 

HTH

[Properjob56]

Well this is well timed! After nigh on 50 years modelling did my first aerial wire today, yay. It was on an Airfix 1/72 Hurricane I and I had the same trepidation for the same reason as you. I also used Uschi thread.

First tip, use 'Fine' for 1/72 not 'Super Fine' as, for me, the latter is almost invisible and difficult to work with. Second, I struggle with liquid superglue so always use gel ( in this case Gorilla Glue) which is much easier to control. Technique was to hold glue tube vertically and bring aerial pole of the model down to the tip of the tube so the tiniest drop was attached, stretch the line across and with a micro brush put hardener on it. It's then fixed solid and will take a bit of rough handling. At the other end do the same ie tiny drop, stretched line across and hardener. Trim both ends with sharp knife and voila! I found that for the insulators tiny drops of superglue gel on the line work well. 

I was well pleased with the result this afternoon, whether it holds together only time will tell.

 

[dogsbody]

Noted Canadian aviation author Carl Vincent has seen this topic and has asked me to post the following for him:

 

 I have been interested in the comments on Tomahawk aerials. I have nothing useful to say on the subject of 112 Squadron or, for that matter, any of the type based outside the UK. However, I have done considerable research (though not a great deal on radio equipment) on the four RCAF squadrons that use the type – 400, 403, 414 and 430. I have located and acquired approximately 130 photos of RCAF Tomahawks. I attach four photos of early 400 Squadron aircraft. The aerials shown in the first three photos seem to be standard for all of the RCAF Tomahawks 1941 – 43 in the three Army cooperation squadrons. The fourth photo shows the sole variant that I have turned up with the basic vertical aerial mast without the streamlined housing. This may have been some transitional stage – any suggestions?

            Oddly enough, the few photos that I have been able to find of 403 Squadron Tomahawks do show the standard aerial mast. However, during the short time (March to May 1941) it was equipped with the type, the squadron was part of Fighter Command, training and for the last month or so operational in the fighter role.

            Therefore, I must agree that it seems likely that the aerials varied according to the type of wireless fitted and, also, that this varied according to the operational role.

            I trust that this and the photos will be of some interest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

 

 

[72modeler]

@dogsbody

 

What the h---? Didn't those erks have oil cans with spouts or funnels, fer cryin' out loud? Bet the pilot pranged  his ground crew to wipe all that oil off! Great photos, BTW- never saw that fairing where the aerial entered the upper fuselage before!

Mike

[Dave Swindell]

36 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

BTW- never saw that fairing where the aerial entered the upper fuselage before!

RAF Malcolm hooded Mustangs had something similar round the base of the whip antenna aft of the cockpit.

1 hour ago, dogsbody said:

  Therefore, I must agree that it seems likely that the aerials varied according to the type of wireless fitted and, also, that this varied according to the operational role.

The two wire aerials from top of spine behind cockpit to tailplane - IFF Aerials

Wire aerial from fin top to wingtip  with leadin faired on top of fuselage - HF radio

Rod/Whip aerial - VHF radio