1/48 Lynx Danish Style

[Martian]

Thanks Bob, more food for thought there.

 

Martian 

[Martian]

Still not made my mind up about the rivets but have bought a set to give me the option to go either way.

 

Martian 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I’d say that Lynx rivets are way less of an issue than Sea King rivets; the Sea King is covered with them, whereas large areas of the Lynx are completely smooth (nose, aero-dynamic fairing covering the generators & pumps in front of the gear box, doors etc.) because they aren’t metal.

 

I haven’t looked closely at the Airfix Lynx recently (though I have at least 3 in my stash), but I seem to recall that the surface is pretty good.  There are prominent rivets in places along the tail pylon - especially around the fold hinge - but it’s not like you’d be adding thousands of the things.

 

It doesn’t need full Crispination.

[Martian]

27 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

I’d say that Lynx rivets are way less of an issue than Sea King rivets; the Sea King is covered with them, whereas large areas of the Lynx are completely smooth (nose, aero-dynamic fairing covering the generators & pumps in front of the gear box, doors etc.) because they aren’t metal.

 

I haven’t looked closely at the Airfix Lynx recently (though I have at least 3 in my stash), but I seem to recall that the surface is pretty good.  There are prominent rivets in places along the tail pylon - especially around the fold hinge - but it’s not like you’d be adding thousands of the things.

 

It doesn’t need full Crispination.

Thanks Crisp, I may strip the rivets and just replace the more prominent ones.

 

Martian 

[Martian]

Yet more fettling today folks. I thought that the undercarriage sponsons might be a problem area and to a point I was right. The fit was a bit better than I had expected but a certain amount of fettling was needed and a couple of plastic card fillets were added to the underside of the fuselage to fill a gap where the sponsons joined.

 

Being a bit fed up with fettling things, I decided to do some prepping for the etched brass for the kit. I concentrated on opening up the areas on the tail boom that would have mesh covers applied to them. This is where the soft plastic that Airfix are using was a boon. The stuff carved like a dream. I guess I need to be looking at the fit of the parts that make up the top of the fuselage next.

 

I must say that I feel much more relaxed about the rivets following Crisp's post. I am going to concentrate on getting the airframe right first and sort out the rivets later.

 

Thanks for looking.

 

Martian 

 

 

 

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I’m away from home, so I have limited access to photos - but this probably illustrates what I mean:

Not that many prominent rivets...

[My boys doing an emergency main gear box change on ZD260 on board HMS Broadsword, alongside in Gibraltar, 1990.]

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Martian]

7 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

I’m away from home, so I have limited access to photos - but this probably illustrates what I mean:

Not that many prominent rivets...

[My boys doing an emergency main gear box change on ZD260 on board HMS Broadsword, alongside in Gibraltar, 1990.]

 

Thanks Crisp, that clarifies matters perfectly.

 

Martian 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

You do understand that I am now expecting a scratch-built MRGB, engines and hydraulics pack, as in that picture?  Still, I’ve spared you the rotor head, so I’m sure you’ll have no trouble.

[Martian]

39 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

You do understand that I am now expecting a scratch-built MRGB, engines and hydraulics pack, as in that picture?  Still, I’ve spared you the rotor head, so I’m sure you’ll have no trouble.

No pressure then!

 

Martian 

[Hewy]

 Ooh ,most interested , i have the goodies for the same kit too,an essential follow, although i get a feeling this will be long haul

[Martian]

46 minutes ago, Hewy said:

 

 

46 minutes ago, Hewy said:

 Ooh ,most interested , i have the goodies for the same kit too,an essential follow, although i get a feeling this will be long haul

Not necessarily Hewy. Once the fit issues have been addressed, it will come down to how much time sorting out my Father's problems allow me at the bench. As for the model, I have a pretty clear idea where I am going with this model. Its also meant to be a mojo booster as the Nina and Triebflugel have been wearing me down a bit recently. This is very definitely meant to be a chill out build.

 

Anyway, I can't wait to start lobbing some Oxford Blue paint about.

 

Martian 

[Hewy]

Chill out with all that pe

 

A couple of questions MR M, are you doing it all folded  and opened up? And does  the the pe you have  tackle those cheesy molded seatbelts on the rear bulkhead ,most enlightening fit issues are being exposed,and here i was hoping my one of these was going to just fall together in the upcoming heli group build .

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Hewy

[heloman1]

On 1/30/2020 at 12:23 AM, TheBaron said:

It occurred to me reading this Martian that modelling must be one of those few consumer transactions nowadays where if we subsequently discover that our purchase actually doesn't work properly, we don't take it back to the shop for a refund but simply shrug fatalistically and correct it ourselves.

 

This is known as The Morris Marina Theory of Economics...

 

I'm guessing that we'll all unanimously nominate the former, knowing the strain that this will put on at least five of your available eyes.

 

Like the sense of purpose developing here very much - that cabin floor particularly!

 

And then if you purchased on-line, would the operative at the other end understand your problem!!!

[Martian]

1 hour ago, Hewy said:

Chill out with all that pe

 

A couple of questions MR M, are you doing it all folded  and opened up? And does  the the pe you have  tackle those cheesy molded seatbelts on the rear bulkhead ,most enlightening fit issues are being exposed,and here i was hoping my one of these was going to just fall together in the upcoming heli group build .

 

The model will be built with rotors spread but I have not yet decided whether to open anything up. The PE does address the moulded seat belts but there in lies a problem. To use the PE one needs to get rid of the moulded seatbelts and this is likely to cause a lot of damage to the quilting effect on the bulkhead. It will be very difficult to reproduce the effect on the other quilted parts which means to get a continuity of the effect one could well end up replacing all the quilted parts. I have not yet explored the possibility of laying the PE over the sanded down kit part. Otherwise it is going to be a matter of living with the moulded belts and painting them up as well as possible. At least they are going to be in the dark.

1 hour ago, heloman1 said:

And then if you purchased on-line, would the operative at the other end understand your problem!!!

Not a snowflakes chance!

 

How do I now this? I have spent much of the week on the phone to call centres, trying to get my Father's financial and domestic affairs into some sort of intelligible order. I was going wibble long before the first half hour of this was up and was in need of whiskey long before the sun was over the yard arm. 

 

Martian 

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

Do Martians drink whisky or use it as sunscreen? Trying to pay off Ba****ycard the other evening, we have new T*B bankcards. So a new three digit number on the back.

Can't be done. The front numbers are already registered but now the security number has changed. Computer say NAH! Phone them, get robot, eventually get to a Human.

Yes, it's a glitch in the system. All sorted in 5 minutes, after over 30 minutes of trying previously!

Stay well old chap. Pete

[Marklo]

Hmm I'd forgo the rivets unless you have photos of the real thing with prominent rivets.

 

In a former life I was the local PWA16  riveting sped expert  on jet engine rivets (and no it was far from riveting, probably one of the most tedious jobs I ever had was to test the ends of 600 rivets with a go nogo gauge), but I did get to go to Kansas off the back of it)  we were putting about 600 flush headed or domed  stainless steel rivets into a Titanium engine case and to be  honest if you were to scale the flush headed riverts you would basically see a small difference in the colour between the titanium and the stainless, the domes were about 5mm proud so at 1/72 this would be around .05mm (5microns) of a difference to the surface area. Also on modern airframes rivets on faying surfaces (ie ones that are in the airflow) are generally filled and sanded flush. With time and airframe vibration you may see a faint crack in the paint where the rivet head is but again at 1/72 it's going to be around bugger all mm thick.

 

Now that said I bought a Rivet-R for my Caproni Campini but the photos show that the rivets are very prominent and I will probably use the 1/72 attachment even though it's 1/48.

 

I just realized the thread says 1/48 (doh)  so your rivets would be .1mm still fairly small.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Marklo

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Marklo, helicopter rivets aren’t filled and sanded flush; parasite drag is not an issue, so why bother.  But the Lynx doesn’t have that many.  These pics are of XZ699, the FAA Museum’s lovely pristine HAS3 (masquerading as an HAS2 with the shiny Oxford Blue stylee), and really only the strengthening plates on the tail could be said to have prominent rivets - maybe the engine bay doors, if you feel like it. To be fair to Airfix, those are the ones they bother to depict in 1/48.

 

[This was one of the last Lynxes I flew, when it was 303 on 815 HQ in 1996/7.  I am old; all my aircraft are in museums.]

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

sorry - double post!

Edited January 31, 2020 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[moaning dolphin]

6 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

The PE does address the moulded seat belts but there in lies a problem. To use the PE one needs to get rid of the moulded seatbelts and this is likely to cause a lot of damage to the quilting effect on the bulkhead. It will be very difficult to reproduce the effect on the other quilted parts which means to get a continuity of the effect one could well end up replacing all the quilted parts. I have not yet explored the possibility of laying the PE over the sanded down kit part. Otherwise it is going to be a matter of living with the moulded belts and painting them up as well as possible. At least they are going to be in the dark.

 

Another kind of prominent fixture missing from the rear bulkhead is a recess, I think its called the Broom Cupboard by those in the know (totally different to the Seaking Broom Cupboard which at least has a door!). I went for the Armageddon option and rebuilt the rear bulkhead and tried to replicate the quilting with tin foil which was rubbed over a small wire mesh which gave a similar effect but not as prominent. I think it worked out ok but luckily its in a dark recess so it doesn't look too bad, dunno if it was worth all that effort though . I also spent $$$ on the etch but alas for a FAA version the harnesses are the wrong type! I wont tell if you don't .

 

1 hour ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

But the Lynx doesn’t have that many

I think that's the difference between Aircrew and Groundcrew, you don't see many where as I see faarsands of them!

 

Bob

[Martian]

7 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Do Martians drink whisky or use it as sunscreen? Trying to pay off Ba****ycard the other evening, we have new T*B bankcards. So a new three digit number on the back.

Can't be done. The front numbers are already registered but now the security number has changed. Computer say NAH! Phone them, get robot, eventually get to a Human.

Yes, it's a glitch in the system. All sorted in 5 minutes, after over 30 minutes of trying previously!

Stay well old chap. Pete

Trouble is that computers and robots are only as good as the idiot that programmed them. Yes Martians, at least this one, use whisky for the purposes God intended.

5 hours ago, Marklo said:

Hmm I'd forgo the rivets unless you have photos of the real thing with prominent rivets.

 

In a former life I was the local PWA16  riveting sped expert  on jet engine rivets (and no it was far from riveting, probably one of the most tedious jobs I ever had was to test the ends of 600 rivets with a go nogo gauge), but I did get to go to Kansas off the back of it)  we were putting about 600 flush headed or domed  stainless steel rivets into a Titanium engine case and to be  honest if you were to scale the flush headed riverts you would basically see a small difference in the colour between the titanium and the stainless, the domes were about 5mm proud so at 1/72 this would be around .05mm (5microns) of a difference to the surface area. Also on modern airframes rivets on faying surfaces (ie ones that are in the airflow) are generally filled and sanded flush. With time and airframe vibration you may see a faint crack in the paint where the rivet head is but again at 1/72 it's going to be around bugger all mm thick.

 

Now that said I bought a Rivet-R for my Caproni Campini but the photos show that the rivets are very prominent and I will probably use the 1/72 attachment even though it's 1/48.

 

I just realized the thread says 1/48 (doh)  so your rivets would be .1mm still fairly small.

 

I did the same as you and ordered the smallest 1/72 rivets I could find.

2 hours ago, moaning dolphin said:

 

Another kind of prominent fixture missing from the rear bulkhead is a recess, I think its called the Broom Cupboard by those in the know (totally different to the Seaking Broom Cupboard which at least has a door!). I went for the Armageddon option and rebuilt the rear bulkhead and tried to replicate the quilting with tin foil which was rubbed over a small wire mesh which gave a similar effect but not as prominent. I think it worked out ok but luckily its in a dark recess so it doesn't look too bad, dunno if it was worth all that effort though . I also spent $$$ on the etch but alas for a FAA version the harnesses are the wrong type! I wont tell if you don't .

 

I think that's the difference between Aircrew and Groundcrew, you don't see many where as I see faarsands of them!

 

Bob

Looks like I am going to have to take another look at that rear bulkhead.

3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

  I am old; all my aircraft are in museums.

At least you're not in a museum yourself.

 

Martian 

[moaning dolphin]

I may have to stand corrected, I revisited a thread I started ages ago and looks like some had a cover over it (so it did have a door!), anyway this provides some nice internals of the FAA version.

 

Bob

[Martian]

44 minutes ago, moaning dolphin said:

I may have to stand corrected, I revisited a thread I started ages ago and looks like some had a cover over it (so it did have a door!), anyway this provides some nice internals of the FAA version.

 

Bob

Thanks Bob, that all helps a lot. I can see a replacement scratch built bulkhead looming in my near future though.

 

Martian 

[Martian]

The may well be a short intermission in the build as I have discovered that my kit is missing a critical part from the engine housing. I emailed Airfix and they do not have the part in question. It looks like I will have to track down another kit so as I can resume work. Needless to say, I am not a happy Martian, especially as things were coming along rather well. Bugger! 

 

Depressed of Mars 

[moaning dolphin]

Oh FFS! Darned and blast it, I was just starting to settle into it! Is it not something that can be easily whittled down?

Bob

[Martian]

16 minutes ago, moaning dolphin said:

Oh FFS! Darned and blast it, I was just starting to settle into it! Is it not something that can be easily whittled down?

Bob

Sadly not, it only has to be the most complicated part in the entire kit. What I have done is found and ordered a ne kit on evil bay on the assumption that Airfix will not have the kit out of production forever. I will then get a replacement part from Airfix and do the second kit as an HAS2. Its still extremely frustrating though as I am on a roll at the moment and if I can get the fit of the engine and gearbox housings sorted, I will feel comfortable about cracking on with assembling and detailing the rest of the kit.

 

Frustrated of Mars