Heller Saab Lansen***FINISHED***

[flarpen]

2 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Bravo @flarpen... bravo! 

What a lovely bit of modelling and there's some very interesting items to view with this build. Were the green coloured undercarriage legs standard for all marks as far as you know? I've seen Lansen nose legs painted green however did not know the mains were also painted the same colour. 

Cheers and thanks.. Dave 

Thanks Dave
As far as I know, yes that would be the standard colours used on all Lansens.

As are the cockpit colours, except for the last J 32D/E versions which had grey instrument panels.

[PhantomBigStu]

10 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Heller (or whoever own them these days) have not long re-released this Lansen kit with a nice new decal sheet. I’d recommend you try to find this latest style box Stu, unless you happen to find an older one for a good price. 
 

Cheers.. Dave

Indeed I have found it on amazonuk oddly had never come up under a searches for heller kits, currently saved in my basket so will be getting one in the coming weeks 

[PeterB]

11 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

I had no idea of this kits existence, I shall not only be watching along I shall be trying to track down one for myself 

Hi Stu,

 

A lot easier to get now than when I bought mine 2nd hand 10 years ago. Heller re-released it a couple of years back with what looks like more appropriate decs and Hannants have them at the moment I think at £12.99. Not sure how the moulding has stood up but should be reasonable. It looks like it should build up pretty well though there are a few sets of "bits" available if you wanted to improve it.  My decs were out of register and I paid nearly as much for replacements as I did for the kit, but the new boxing should hopefully not have that problem.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[PeterB]

On 1/24/2020 at 8:54 AM, Rabbit Leader said:

Bravo @flarpen... bravo! 

What a lovely bit of modelling and there's some very interesting items to view with this build. Were the green coloured undercarriage legs standard for all marks as far as you know? I've seen Lansen nose legs painted green however did not know the mains were also painted the same colour. 

Cheers and thanks.. Dave 

Hi Dave,

 

I noticed the legs in  the walk round on IPMS Stockholm last night - all 3 were in what seems to be a slightly bluish green. The nice thing about this GB is the wealth of information being provided by our fellow modellers - don't know about you but I would not have had a clue about a lot of the details on these planes without their help.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited January 27, 2020 by PeterB

[Rabbit Leader]

23 minutes ago, PeterB said:

... don't know about you but I would not have had a clue about a lot of the details on these planes without their help.

I'm most certainly with you on that one Pete! 

Their kind help along with the encouragement of the GB Hosts is what's setting this up to be a fantastic group build to be part of. I'll have to check out the Lansen Walkaround now that you've mentioned it. 

Cheers.. Dave 

[PeterB]

Hi Dave,

 

There is a walkround on the IPMS site but I followed their links to this which has more info.

http://www.plasticwarfare.se/2012/01/saab-a32a-walkaround/

 

That site also has a bit on the Viggen and Gripen.

 

This is also rather interesting.

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/bevapningsalternativ-for-a32a-lansen/

 

Pete

Edited January 24, 2020 by PeterB

[Rabbit Leader]

Great links Pete, much appreciated. 
Cheers.. Dave

[PeterB]

Here we go again – I am looking forward to this build as I have always thought that the Lansen was a good looking plane, though I have to admit that in spite of over 60 years reading about aircraft (and building kits of them), I know very little about it. I suspect the same applies to quite a few of us involved in this GB, so with apologies to our “Nordic” modellers I thought a brief history was appropriate – most if not all of the following comes from my Putnam's book on Saab Aircraft and if anybody wants to correct me or add anything please feel free!

 

Towards the end of 1948 studies began to replace the various aircraft Sweden used for attack, reconnaissance and night fighting. It was decided to proceed with the Saab Model 1150 design which was initially to be powered by a Swedish engine which was under development - the STAL Dovern II and the later afterburning Glan, but the Swedish Air Force decided later to use the existing RR Avon. The first Lansen (The Lance) flew in November 1952 and the following year it exceeded Mach 1 in a dive,

 

There were 3 basic versions and the kit is of the J32A Attack version of which 287 were built, powered by a licence built Avon called the RM5A which delivered 7630 lb thrust dry and 10360 lb thrust with afterburner, giving a maximum speed of 699 mph. It was armed with 4 Swedish built 20mm Hispano cannon and could carry various loads of rockets, bombs etc, together with the Rb 04 anti ship missile.

 

The next model produced was the J32C unarmed recce version of which 44 were apparently built, and the final main version was the J32B all weather interceptor. This had numerous changes including modified radar, 4 x 30mm Aden cannon, provision for Rb 24 (Sidewinder) missiles and a more powerful RM6A derivative of the Avon which produced 10560 lb dry and 14680lb with afterburner, which should perhaps have made it faster but Putnams say the speed was the same – this may be wrong as it was apparently considered somewhat more “sporty” than the A model. 120 were built I gather - maybe it just had better acceleration?.

 

Towards the end of its service life some were converted to target tugs (model D) and some to ECM trainers (Model E).

 

So on with the build.

Having painted the inside of the fuselage, the tail pipe and the various cockpit bits I inserted the 2 small "trunks/splitters" into the intakes. Unfortunately they are open at the back so to avoid them being see-through I blanked them with card. I then assembled the cockpit and was pleasantly uprised at the level of detail - there are slightly raised panels on the side consoles which match up with the ones on the 1/48 Tarangus kit -  I make no claim for accuracy but just copied the colours from the builds that have been kindly shared with me. I had to put a little filler on the join line between the 2 halves of the tailpipe - irritating but not unusual. At least that is blanked off. After touching up I will fit the IP and see how the fuselage goes together. Unfortunately although Heller say it needs weight in the nose they do not say how much but there is quite a bit of room. Like the J29 there is a seperate lower nose section which I can just tack on until I have the wheels in place. It could leave a difficult seam to fill/sand but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

If it goes together like the Tunnan the basic build should be fairly quick, but I have a lot of decals to then put on, and pylons to fabricate for the Rb 04, if I use them.

 

More later.

 

Pete

Edited January 24, 2020 by PeterB

[Col.]

Sounds as if you're enjoying this one Pete  

[PeterB]

Certainly am Col!

 

Whilst there can be considerable satisfaction in building a "difficult" kit, or doing a major internal detailing exercise like on my old Frog Shackleton a few months back, they can at times be rather tiring, so a nice "easy" build can be a refreshing change. As I said previouly I have always liked the look of the Lansen, though I did not get round to buying this one until around 10 years ago. Now I have started it, helped enormously by the generous advice and information I have had from our "Nordic" modelling friends, it is proving a pleasure to build - at least so far. I will post some pictures shortly, but the fit is very good on this boxing - not sure what the newer re-releases will be like as the moulds will be getting a bit old by now! 

 

Later,

 

The fit would put many modern kits to shame! I had to scrape the fuselage wing mountings just a little as the wings were slightly tight but otherwise it virtually "clicked" together.

 

 I will need a very small amount of filler on the lower wing to fuselage joint,, and have scraped the fuselage centreline joint gently with a knife but otherwise it is virtualy perfect. Next I have to fit 3 tiny intakes on the rear fuselage, which will be a pain. Then it will be a case of washing and priming. 

 

I got 10g of lead in the nose and it looks to be fairly nose heavy so I have risked gluing the lower nose insert in place - it will also need just a touch of filler but was far better that the similar insert on the Tunnan. If I need more weight I can put some in the belly tank I expect.

 

At this rate I may end up having to wait for the Humbrol Acrylic 116 paint to arrive next week, so I will probably make a start on the Draken.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited January 25, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Well I suppose it had to happen sooner or later - I have lost a bit! I definitely had 2 wing fences when I started this build, but could only find one when I came to put them on. No big problem I thought, as it must be somewhere in my work room, but could I find it - no way, so I ended up carving a replacement from plastic card - not perfect but it will do.

As you can see the intakes and fences are on and I have given it a coat of rattle can primer, The seams/joints are acceptable so no need for any more filler. Now I am waiting for the paint to arrive, hopefully before the end of the week. In the meantime I will probably fit the undercarriage and see how it sits.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited January 26, 2020 by PeterB

[reini]

11 hours ago, PeterB said:

Well I suppose it had to happen sooner or later - I have lost a bit! I definitely had 2 wing fences when I started this build, but could only find one when I came to put them on. No big problem I thought, as it must be somewhere in my work room, but could I find it - no way, so I ended up carving a replacement from plastic card - not perfect but it will do.

Aaa! The scandinavian carpet monster strikes again! 

 

Your builds really makes me wanna get some Heller Saab's. Luckily, they seem to come with very reasonable prices. The old Saabs are still missing from my stash, ie. J21, Tunnan & Lansen (my focus is jets). But my wife has an opinion that I should build some before buying new ones. But I'm not sure she knows what she is asking - I built quite the reasonable amount of 24 models last year - and even then, according to her, I wasn't spending enough time with her!  I mean how many models she want's me to build and does she truly understand what that means?  

[PeterB]

If anybody does built this kit, I would suggest leaving the fences off until after you have sorted the leading edge painting - I have now realised I am going to have a problem masking with the fences on! Sources say the upper leading edge on the wing and horizontal tail together with the fin were left in natural metal - scale width of "stripe" is said to be 0.8mm.  Not sure if the Draken was the same as the undersides were not NMF except under the rear fuselage?

 

Whilst waiting for the paint ( it's on its way) I have been researching weapons for the Lansen and Draken and athough I have posted it before, this article on the IPMS Stockholm site is very useful for anybody thinking of building the J32A "Attack" version..

 

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/bevapningsalternativ-for-a32a-lansen/

 

I will have to see if the BOZ pods I have somewhere are similar to the BOX 3 that the Lansen used!

 

Pete

Edited January 27, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Getting a bit bored waiting for the paint so I might end up using my existing enamel version. I will give it another couple of days but according to the carrier Hermes, it has been in the van since it was collected over 48 hours ago and still has not reached the depot! Could just be a dodgy tracking system. I am reminded of the joke going around at the time of the Falklands War about HMS Hermes, but I better not repeat it here as it refers to a disease and might cause offence - some of you may remember it though!

 

My Boz pods would not be appropriate and anyway I think I would only be able to fit one Rb 04 with a Box/Boz on. I have dug out the missiles from my old Viggen and they are sitting in oven cleaner to get the paint off. With the Draken nearly done I can at least make a start on the carrying rails. Either that or open the Viggen box.

 

Pete

[Christer A]

Two Rb04 is where it's at! I don't think the A32A carried any countermeasure pods in any case.

 

Bring on the Viggen!

[PeterB]

Hi Christer,

 

I got the info on the BOX 3 pod from the A32A weapons loadout article on IPMS Stockholm - not going to use it anyway.

 

More questions I am afraid. The Lansen would presumably have been fitted with the early Rb 04C version of the missile or maybe the later longer ranged D version but I gather a later Rb 04E version was developed for the Viggen. I have almost no info on this missile but Wiki mention that the E model had widened wings. The ones I am using are off the Airfix 1971 release of the prototype Viggen, which had first flow 4 years earlier. I have no idea which type of Rb 04 Airfix modelled or how accurate they are. I also seem to remember that on somebody else's build (Bosse?) there seemed to be windows in the underside of the missile. Does anybody have any detailed info on the Rb 04 - what differences there were between the C and E versions, dimensions etc would be helpful

 

Pete

Edited February 1, 2020 by PeterB

[Christer A]

Robot 04C was the first one to be used from aircraft. After some time the were all upgraded to D status with a new rocket motor and new maintenance free batteries.

The E version came along with Viggen, but the actual stuff was better targeting systems and internal stuff to better withstand ECM and such.

As far as I can understand it, there are no dimensional differences between the versions.

 

Airfix old Rb04 for Viggen should be good enough for your Lansen.

The window underneath has something to do with the live versions, and not the dummys that are more commonly seen. Perhaps @Marlin can explain a bit more?

 

[Marlin]

4 hours ago, Christer A said:

The window underneath has something to do with the live versions, and not the dummys that are more commonly seen. Perhaps @Marlin can explain a bit more?

You called. ! 

From what I can remember from my visit to the Missile Museum in Arboga an elderly gentleman that was my guide there told me something about that the window was for an altimeter/doppler radar? of some sort. Whatever it was it was something about to do with the missiles guidence system and the height over the waves it was going to travel. The RB04 was a sea skimming ASW missile and only rose above wave height at the last moment to explode over it's target. 

 

HTH

/Bosse

[PeterB]

Thanks guys,

 

So I will perhaps paint the windows on. Don't think I will bother with the little set of aerials near the nose fins.

 

Pete

[PeterB]

The A32A attack version of the Lansen had a built in armament of 4x20mm cannon under the nose, the blast troughs being covered by doors when not in use which I believe is quite unusual..

 

According to the article on IPMS Stockholm it had 6 hardpoints under each wing and one under the fuselage which normally carried the ventral drop tank which I shall be fitting later. There were 3 standard types of pylon, the smaller Balk A for light loads up to 120Kg, the larger Balk B for heavy loads up to 600 Kg, and the heavy Balk D for the centreline if the drop tank was not fitted. If the Box 3 countermeasures pod was fitted it used a modified type B known as Balk BF and the Rb 04 had a special pylon known as Balk GV under the port wing and GH under the starboard one as the supporting struts were “handed”. The Swedish Airforce did not normally fit pylons unless they were going to be used so the clean configuration modelled by Heller would be quite normal.

 

I have stripped the old Airfix Rb 04 from my Viggen and tidied up the seams. I have also carved the lower part of the Balk G from thick card. The lower pylon hung from 2 short “stubs” which I will make later. I will add the supporting struts once the pylons are in place, but there was a large “U” shaped plate fitted to the bottom of the pylon to support the missile so I have made that out of thin card and glued it on the missiles. I have also filed a shallow “notch” under the pylon so it will sit over the brace. In the picture below the left hand missile shows the brace in place and in the right hand picture the lower pylon has been fitted.

You will get some idea of the size of the missiles from this, though they are nearer the camera and look a bit out of scale of course. In the background you may just be able to see that I have added the gun sight and the clear screen in front of the rear cockpit - this was apparently to protect the back seat occupant from the airflow if the canopy had to be blown off prior to ejection - the pilot of course had the windscreen to protect him. Later seats which eject through the canopy do not need that sort of fitment.

 

As the missile pylons fit over the national "three crowns" insignia, they cannot be fitted until the decs are on, but I can get them sorted out before that. I did not paint them at this stage as it makes gluing easier. The paint is due to arrive on Saturday but I have a bad feeling about this as the tracking info says it has still not yet reached the depot! If it does not turn up I can either spray the Tamiya XF61 for a "new" plane or use the enamel Hu116 for a faded one, but due to the smell of both the enamel and the cleaner I will probably have to try and use my shed - that or hand paint which will be rather easier. I might spray XF61 and see what it looks like.

 

Getting there slowly - more as and when something happens.

 

Pete

[reini]

Good work on the pylons. Rb 04 are indeed quite beefy missiles.

 

I also have Airfix Viggen that I got as an 'extra' kit when I was buying couple of other kits. It has all the parts, except it has two of the same fuselage halves...   So it will donate it's weapons someday to the Special Hobby kit.

[Rabbit Leader]

Those missiles and hard points do look very good Pete. This will really lift the overall kit which apart from lacking armament is still a very nice package. 

Cheers.. Dave 

[PeterB]

Here is the finished article -

I have shamelessly copied them from Bosse's excellent build which he provided the link to earlier in this thread, and like him I will put some small numbers on the tail and body. I thought light gull grey would be appropriate from the info I have received. The struts that brace the pylon to the wing should be easy enough to add, but they rest on circular pads, which could be a problem - maybe some PVA glue will do the trick, but that will have to wait until the decs are on. If I had a punch the right size I suppose I could make them from card but then they would be flat and they need to be a little "domed".

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[PeterB]

Working on the reasonable assumption that Bosse @Marlin knows a lot more about Swedish planes and their weapons than I ever will, I have once again copied his build and put the finishing touches to the Rb 04 - ok I used a slightly too big font I think compared with his but they are close enough for me.

The reason the kit is propped up like that is because the paint has finally arrived, so I though you might like to see the drop tank I have added under the fuselage - shades of my Swift and Attacker in the recent KUTA GB! I have also painted the canopy frames and fitted it. I thought for a moment there was a scratch on the windscreen, but when I put my reading glasses on I realised Heller had moulded the "car type" windscreen wiper - not sure that was a good thing as it looks like I slipped with my paintbrush if you do not realise it is intentional! I will get it masked up and hopefully I will try and get the uppersurfaces airbrushed on Sunday. From the various answers I have had I could use Tamiya XF61 for an "as new" finish, but just about all the colour pics I have seen suggest I should use Humbrol Hu116 for a faded look - Heller actually suggest Hu 86 "light olive". The only colour illustration I had prior to this GB was in the Harleyford/Kenneth Munson "Pocket Encylopaedia of World Aircraft in Colour" series dating back to 1966, and they showed the Lansen in a dark blue green!

 

So the build is moving again and with luck should be finished before too long, which is good as I have 2 more GB starting this month. I have just noticed a minor problem with the decal sheet I bought - most of the A32A options pre-date the introduction of the Rb 04 but fortunately there are still 3 possible planes I can represent.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by PeterB

[Rabbit Leader]

For what it’s worth the new Heller instructions quote Humbrol 91 as the top surface colour? I don’t think thats correct either. I really like the look of your Lansen with the additional fuel tank, she will look mightily impressive with those additional Rb 04’s as well. 
 

Cheers.. Dave