Last Blackburn Beverly

[Adam Poultney]

The museum with the last Blackburn Beverly has suddenly closed with no plans to reopen, the aircraft's future is uncertain. Discuss:

[Britman]

Oh no! Got to get it to Cosford, somehow.

 

Keith

[Adam Poultney]

3 minutes ago, Britman said:

Oh no! Got to get it to Cosford, somehow.

 

Keith

Or Duxford, Cosford is far more cramped

[mackem01]

Sad that the museum has closed, but that airframe must be saved. If they have closed for good , then I hope they will consider donating the airframe to somewhere capable of doing it justice.

[Jinxman]

That's a real shame - a fascinating place with stacks of history.

 

Same for the airframe as well - I saw it in 2017 and it needed some TLC back then. It needs to be inside, so Cosford can't help, as there are enough airframes exposed to the elements there already.

[Adam Poultney]

3 minutes ago, Jinxman said:

That's a real shame - a fascinating place with stacks of history.

 

Same for the airframe as well - I saw it in 2017 and it needed some TLC back then. It needs to be inside, so Cosford can't help, as there are enough airframes exposed to the elements there already.

I think Duxford has the better restoration facilities and there's that one room the Victor was in for a while before moving to the restoration hanger that was empty last time I was there (almost a year ago)

[The Tomohawk Kid]

There was a Beverley outside at Hendon for years, which was eventually cut up due to corrosion and it becoming unsafe.  I can't imagine this one which has been subject to salt air of the Humber for decades is in any better condition. Just because St Paull has closed, I'm afraid does not mean anyone can waltz in and whisk it to safety however, well meaning - if they do they will need some very deep pockets. If the RAF Museum couldn't or wouldn't save the one the airframe they owned, the future is not looking good for this Beverley.

 

Tommo.

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by The Tomohawk Kid

[Britman]

This is type extinction were talking of and seems incredible that this aircraft may be lost again (Hendon ). Duxford does seem a better location although they could do with another super hanger. 

 

Keith

[Adam Poultney]

To be honest with the RAF Museum's track record of scrapping rare or unique aircraft I don't really want them to get this...

XA900, XA923 (one of the last remaining Victor B1s but there is one at the IMW), that other Beverly...

[bentwaters81tfw]

Elvington is nearest, but it's really outside their remit, and there would be no covered space.

Gonna be down to pennies again.

[Kushan_Farsight]

Anyone know if mr Kermit Weeks has a penchant for the Beverly? as much as i would love to see it preserved in the UK, i dont know if we have any air museums with the capacity or funds to keep one of these

If it was to stay in the UK, could any potential air museums capitalize on 'saving' one of these by offering access/3d scan rights to well known kit manufacturers and some form of royalties off each kit sold? Sure there are more than a few people who would add one of these to their collection in a new mould 1/72 form, especially if say 15% of proceeds went towards restoration and maintaining the original plane(and only one left!)

[The Tomohawk Kid]

21 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

If it was to stay in the UK, could any potential air museums capitalize on 'saving' one of these by offering access/3d scan rights to well known kit manufacturers and some form of royalties off each kit sold? Sure there are more than a few people who would add one of these to their collection in a new mould 1/72 form, especially if say 15% of proceeds went towards restoration and maintaining the original plane(and only one left!)

 

That is not going to get anywhere near the amount required, I'm afraid. Assuming it could be aquired (a huge assuption) the costs just to break it down transport it and put it into 'safe' storage would cost several thousands of pounds, if not into the teens of thousands. I also believe at some point it has been blathered in Hammerite too.

 

Tommo.

Edited January 24, 2020 by The Tomohawk Kid

[Giorgio N]

1 hour ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

 

That is not going to get anywhere near the amount required, I'm afraid. Assuming it could be aquired (a huge assuption) the costs just to break it down transport it and put it into 'safe' storage would cost several thousands of pounds, if not into the teens of thousands. I also believe at some point it has been blathered in Hammerite too.

 

Tommo.

 

That and the fact that the potential market for a Beverley kit is so small that the royalties on each kit would have to be pretty high to raise enough money, with the risk of making the kit even less desireable... call me cynical, but I think I know my fellow modellers, plenty would swear by a 1/72 Beverley on a forum but when the time comes to open the wallet most would find the kit too expensive if it goes beyond the £40 mark... and doing all the math, at that price level with the kind of numbers that a Beverley kit could make, we'd be talking about maybe paying the transport. Better than nothing for sure but not enough to guarantee the survival

 

[The Tomohawk Kid]

I very much doubt a mainstream 1/72 IM  Beverley is a viable project in its own right, never mind creaming off any money for anything else.

 

Tommo.

Edited January 24, 2020 by The Tomohawk Kid

[stever219]

On 1/21/2020 at 6:06 PM, Adam Poultney said:

Or Duxford, Cosford is far more cramped

In your dreams😢.  The Beverley has a span of 162 feet IIRC and in service had to be pushed into standard hangars sideways on special “skates” with the nose jacked up so that the fins would clear the tops of the doorways.  Duxford’s Super VC-10 (span 146 feet) has been outdoors since she arrived and has deteriorated significantly, to the point where her disposal/demise is being contemplated.

 

Dismantling and transporting XB259 anywhere will cost well into tens of thousands of £s, look at the “Phantom preservation” thread to see how much it’s costing to get ZE360 away from Manston’s fire pits, and even dismantled Beverley bits are big.

 

Agreed though that RAF Air Historical Branch and RAFM’s history with Beverley’s is not good: apparently XL149 at Finningley was was being kept for RAFM but was scrapped to accommodate the Queen’s silver jubilee review and XH124 wasn’t owned by RAFM but was still on Misery of Disarmament charge: when RAFM advised MoD that the airframe was suffering from corrosion and asked for something to be done about it MoD simply sent in the torch squad (cheapest option).

 

 

[VMA131Marine]

Transportation of the aircraft can be done if there’s suitable motivation. When the museum at the former Chanute AFB closed a few years back money was found to move most of the exhibits including a rare XB-47, a B-29, and a B-36, all of which had sat outside through Illinois winters for decades. Unfortunately there were no takers for a C-97 and C-133 that were ultimately cut up for scrap.

[junglierating]

2 hours ago, stever219 said:

In your dreams😢.  The Beverley has a span of 162 feet IIRC and in service had to be pushed into standard hangars sideways on special “skates” with the nose jacked up so that the fins would clear the tops of the doorways.  Duxford’s Super VC-10 (span 146 feet) has been outdoors since she arrived and has deteriorated significantly, to the point where her disposal/demise is being contemplated.

 

Dismantling and transporting XB259 anywhere will cost well into tens of thousands of £s, look at the “Phantom preservation” thread to see how much it’s costing to get ZE360 away from Manston’s fire pits, and even dismantled Beverley bits are big.

 

Agreed though that RAF Air Historical Branch and RAFM’s history with Beverley’s is not good: apparently XL149 at Finningley was was being kept for RAFM but was scrapped to accommodate the Queen’s silver jubilee review and XH124 wasn’t owned by RAFM but was still on Misery of Disarmament charge: when RAFM advised MoD that the airframe was suffering from corrosion and asked for something to be done about it MoD simply sent in the torch squad (cheapest option).

 

 

Frankly back in 1977 the MoD had a lot more money knocking about ....nowadays there is a lot less and it is hard enough to keep current aircraft air worthy and equally importantly operational.....I.e. fully capable not just punching holes in the sky around the local airfield....MoD is far from perfect but it kinda annoys me with statements like 'the misery of disarmament'.....clearly no idea of how much defence costs ....still that is your opinion.

[stever219]

2 hours ago, junglierating said:

Frankly back in 1977 the MoD had a lot more money knocking about ....nowadays there is a lot less and it is hard enough to keep current aircraft air worthy and equally importantly operational.....I.e. fully capable not just punching holes in the sky around the local airfield....MoD is far from perfect but it kinda annoys me with statements like 'the misery of disarmament'.....clearly no idea of how much defence costs ....still that is your opinion.

Sadly I do know how much defence costs, having worked for one of the government departments tasked with funding it and shedloads of other state activities, and any implicit criticism in my comments is not for the men and women of out armed forces but those in cosy, plush offices in Whitehall and other expensive locations who busily squander that hard-earned lucre on “jollies” for themselves and personal aggrandisement.

[Kushan_Farsight]

I have no idea who the Yorkshire Party- Beverley & Holderness Branch are, but they are hoping to get English Heritage/Historic England to take over the site through a strongly worded letter. how effective that will be.... i dont know. 
 

On 1/24/2020 at 10:12 AM, Giorgio N said:

 

That and the fact that the potential market for a Beverley kit is so small that the royalties on each kit would have to be pretty high to raise enough money, with the risk of making the kit even less desireable... call me cynical, but I think I know my fellow modellers, plenty would swear by a 1/72 Beverley on a forum but when the time comes to open the wallet most would find the kit too expensive if it goes beyond the £40 mark... and doing all the math, at that price level with the kind of numbers that a Beverley kit could make, we'd be talking about maybe paying the transport. Better than nothing for sure but not enough to guarantee the survival

 

I think it would require quite an entrepreneurial spirit, lots of media attention and a few wealthy anonymous donors to get the full funds to relocate and re-home the Beverley.  I See its never been made as an injection molded kit (In 1/72 Scale)...... and its probably because it wouldn't be exactly cheap to make the molds for. 15% at a £40 rrp would only net you £6 per kit, so youd need to sell what, between 1,000-10,000 to raise any significant funds.

That said, the more i look at the Beverley, the more i think it might not be too hard to 3d model & print, and might be an easier project than some of the more ambitious, and more complex shaped projects i see running on BM. Watch this space. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Kushan_Farsight
did my whole "if it isnt 1/48 or 1/72 it doesnt exist" thing again

[Graham Boak]

It has been done as an injection molded kit, just not in 1/72.  See Mikro Mir in 1/144.

[RichG]

29 minutes ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

I See its never been made as an injection molded kit

Not quite correct... perhaps not in 1/72 - but there is a good kit in 1/144 from MikroMir. Impressive even in this scale.

 

Rich

 

 

[RichG]

42 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

It has been done as an injection molded kit, just not in 1/72.  See Mikro Mir in 1/144.

whoops... great minds? 🙂

 

Some great shots of the Beverley in its natural in service environment - linked in this tread... Thanks @71chally

 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by RichG

[jenko]

Does any of you remember the one at the Southend air museum from back in the 70's ??

 

In those days you could climb ALL over it.

 

Dick

[RichG]

13 minutes ago, jenko said:

Does any of you remember the one at the Southend air museum from back in the 70's ??

XB261 sadly broken up in 1989... followed in Jan 1990 by XH124 Hendon.☹️ 

 

The flight deck of XB261 still survives  though; initially on display at Duxford and now at Newark Air Museum.

[Julien]

Not only will it will be down to cost, but it will be down to the condition of the airframe,

 

Speaking from experience on a much smaller airframe what looks at first, and even second glance good has turned into many months work due to issues which have cropped up with a supposedley "good" airframe. Now multiply that by something the size of the Beverley and you could really have a problem.

 

Some of these old airframe do not want to be taken apart, having done it with more modern types even they dont come apart very easily. If you get professionals to do it that costs serious coin, otherwise you are relying on people giving up spare time. There is not the appitite for sponsirship of an airframe less well know to the general public and TBH you would need professionals to move something this big.

 

I would hope the RAF would see it as the last of its type, but again Transport Command et al has never been sexy with the RAF. I also dispair at some of the people running the RAF museums at present (but thats another story)

 

I would love for it to be saved but sadly unless the museum where it is can re-open/be saved I sadly think it will not leave there.

 

Julien