Lancaster Dambuster question.

[stevej60]

Hi folk's,I'm just getting into building Airfix's old tool Lancaster for the first time and have a couple of questions.What colour were the wheel wells

and inner doors? And were these aircraft converted from squadron aircraft or delivered as new to the squadron for the raid,any pointers appreciated

[matthies]

Hi Stevej60,

I believe the wheel wells were standard black colour; the aircraft were all delivered new to the squadron direct from Avro.

Hope this helps.

[dogsbody]

A view:

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[stevej60]

36 minutes ago, matthies said:

Hi Stevej60,

I believe the wheel wells were standard black colour; the aircraft were all delivered new to the squadron direct from Avro.

Hope this helps.

Thank's Matthies,that answers the weathering level Question!

 

27 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

A view:

Thank's Chris answers the u/c leg colour question too.

[Bell209]

Yeah, I barely weathered my Tamiya Lancaster as I reckon they were almost new when they left on the dams raid.

[Alex Gordon]

A spot of light digging has unearthed this which gives some gen on aircraft delivery dates.Deliveries of the Chastise aircraft began in April,about a month before the raid.

[franky boy]

Sorry if this hijacks your thread Steve.

But following on from the delivery dates does anyone know what happened to the surviving aircraft after the raid?

 

Were they converted back into standard bomber configuration?

 

 Thanks 

 

James

[FinnAndersen]

27 minutes ago, franky boy said:

Sorry if this hijacks your thread Steve.

But following on from the delivery dates does anyone know what happened to the surviving aircraft after the raid?

 

Were they converted back into standard bomber configuration?

 

 Thanks 

 

James

Take a look in the link provided by Alex Gordon 😉

[Alex Gordon]

Finn beat me to it.Some were reworked into a relatively normal configuration and reissued to squadrons for further use,a few were maintained as supplied and used form time to time for training use,and ultimately for disposing of surplus Upkeep mines after the war.

[franky boy]

Shame no one thought to save just one of them. 

[stevej60]

1 hour ago, franky boy said:

Shame no one thought to save just one of them. 

Agree totally Franky.This old tool Airfix kit is proving a real pleasure to build.And no need to do anything but a light weather.

[Seahawk]

The following has been distilled from the information contained in the revised (2008) edition of "Dambusters: The Definitive History of 617 Squadron At War 1943-1945" by Chris Ward and Andy Lee (Red Kite).  There are some differences from the article in Alex's link.

•  There was a total of 23 Type 464 PROVISIONING Lancasters: the one missing from the article is the first prototype ED765/G.
•  The surviving Type 464 Lancasters seemed to have remained available to the squadron.  They were used only very occasionally on operations until a little flurry by several of the aircraft in November 43 to Jan 44.  Later still ED817 undertook 3 operations between 20 and 24/4/44.
• During those operations they often dropped 12,000 lb bombs but not invariably (eg ED906 and ED932, Pas de Calais on 4/1/44 when the aircraft, described by the book as Type 464 variants, flew with a reduced load of 11 x 1000lb bombs when the rest of the squadron carried 14). 
• Most of the surviving Type 464 Lancasters were flown out to storage at Metheringham on 15/4/44: "The intention was that they should be flown occasionally and maintained sufficiently to allow their return to operations, should the need arise."
•  The last operational mission undertaken by a Type 464 Lancaster was, as far as I can see, by ED909 (Mickey Martin's P-Popsy from the Dams Raid) on 8 June 1944 (8 x 1000lb bombs plus 6 x 7" clusters).

Not surprisingly there are no photos in the book of Type 464 Lancasters after the dams operation so the extent of any conversions back to standard configuration remains, to my mind, a matter of conjecture.  I haven't spotted anything in the form of hard evidence in the cited article.  My money is that they stayed in recognisable Type 464 configuration for the rest of their careers, with those used on operations having no bomb doors, possibly retaining the fore and aft fairings (if, rpt if that is consonant with carrying a 12,000lb MC bomb or 11 x 1000lb bombs) and probably without the bomb-carrying arms  

 

Postscript: the Air Britain serials listing does not record Type 464 aircraft serving with any squadron (or unit) after 617 Sq with the exception of the 3 issued to 61 Sq for Op GUZZLE (post-war disposal of redundant UPKEEP mines).

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Seahawk

[mick b]

In the Osprey Publishing title No 617 Dambuster Sqn a section covers the final days of the converted Lancs together with post war (1947) photos of Gibson’s, Martin’s and Maltbys dam raid aircraft still in dam configuration as they were used to dispose of leftover mines which were deemed unsafe and these machines were the only ones capable of dropping the mines in the sea, it was known as Operation Guzzle  as Seahawk says and this was carried out in 46. Apparently they were in need of ‘refurbishment’ as engines were knackered etc. When pictured in 47 they carried the codes YF in white and white serial under the wings. 

 

In a Dambusters special produced for WH.Smith by Clive Rowley ex BBMF back in 2013 he provides a page of the individual histories of all 23 Type 464 and I think this has been reprinted of late?

 

 

Mike

Edited January 20, 2020 by mick b

[Bell209]

Many years ago I was privileged to do an interview with several Australian 617SQN veterans for radio. None of them flew on the dams raid but some joined the squadron soon after. They confirmed a number of the aircraft remained in 'Dambuster' configuration the whole time they were there and said they were referred to by the crews as 'The Freaks'. They never saw them fly at all.