F6F Hellcat drones stars and bars question

[Red Dog]

Hi all,

Doing a few Academy 1/72 Hellcats as post war drones. You know the ones, bright red with different coloured tails used for testing the radioactivity of the air over atomic detonations post war.

 

Anyway my question is about the stars and bars on the fuselage sides and on the wings. Were they the same size or were the wing ones slightly smaller?

 

I have Alley Cat's set of decals for these planes and their decals have 2 different sized stars and bars (larger for fuselage, smaller on wings)

 

But both Eduard and H-Models have only one size of stars and bars for fuselage and wings

 

Further research. Do these both look the same size?

 

 I ask this as I will need to purchase After Market Star and Bars Decals and just need to know if I need only one size or two.

 

Cheers ad thanks for any info or answers.

[Wulfman]

Wing markings look smaller to me. 
 

Wulfman
 

 

[72modeler]

19 minutes ago, Wulfman said:

Wing markings look smaller to me. 
 

Wulfman
 

 

I'm pretty sure that is correct; on the F6F, the diameter of the national insignia with the star and bar on the fuselage was greater than those painted on the wings. See the photos in the link below. 

Mike

 

http://www.pmcn.de/English/USN Markings II/USN Markings II.htm

[Sabrejet]

Note that F6F-3K drone aircraft in this scheme were used specifically for the 1946 Crossroads tests at Bikini Atoll; they had been tested in the US prior to deployment. The tail colours were allotted in pairs, as follows:

 

1 & 2 medium blue

3 & 4 orange

5 & 6 - (dark blue?)

7 & 8 white

9 & 10 red

11 & 12 yellow

13 & 14 pink

15 & 16 blue grey

17 & 18 light green

19 & 20 orange

21 & 22 - ?

23 & 24 - ?

25 & 26 – ?

 

Tail colours seem to have been used to identify the aircraft and their drone controllers (F6F-5) and used as the flight callsigns during the actual test (Red, White, Blue and Yellow for the Crossroads Able test for example). Most photos showing these aircraft were either taken on Kwajalein atoll or aboard the USS Shangri-La.

 

These drones featured extra tail antennae and some also incorporated K-17 or Mitchell cameras.

 

 

[pat d]

F6F insignia sizes:

wing 45 "  located 57" from wing tip

Fuselage 50" located 69" from stabilizer.

Sizes are for the original circumscribed circle  of the national insignia, and do not include, red or blue surrounds or bars. See chart below it is USAF origin but the first 2 drawings applies to the subject.

Disclaimer: I do not know if the drones had non-standard insignia applied. HTH,

Pat D

[Red Dog]

Brilliant.

Thanks guys, great info, just what I was after. Different sizes it then.

Appreciate your input and help in this matter.

 

On the coloured tails. It seems there's no evidence of what nos. 5 & 6 were.

The actual colour of the numbers on the tails as far as I can tell was 1 to 10 were white and 11 to 20 were black.

11 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

1 & 2 medium blue

3 & 4 orange

5 & 6 - (dark blue?)

7 & 8 white

9 & 10 red

11 & 12 yellow

13 & 14 pink

15 & 16 blue grey

17 & 18 light green

19 & 20 orange

21 & 22 - ?

23 & 24 - ?

25 & 26 – ?

Cheers all

[Orso]

As the #7 and 8 had tails their numbers were black. There is a pic with those two parked together with a third white tailed plane that has no number at all.

#15 had black numbers while #16 had white.  Just to add to the confusion. In a line up there is a single plane that is all over dark blue with white #11, in that line is also the yellow tail 11.

[Red Dog]

Yes your right Orso on those numbers. I do have that info, just didn't look at my own notes close enough.

That last point of a dark blue tail with no. 11 is actually an all blue aircraft, maybe No.11's control aircraft?

 

 

same line up from the front

[Orso]

My thought too but using the same number on two planes at the same time is a bit odd.

I am building a couple of drones but was thinking of building at least one in the all over blue paint but when I noticed this one I might opt for it.

[Sabrejet]

I had been struggling with the Crossroads test colours and think I now understand what occurred; the colours above were for the pre-test phase (including flight testing at Johnsonville, Chula Vista etc) and for the actual test, the Red, White, Blue and Yellow colours were applied (these were the only call signs used and correspond to the drone control F6F-5s). Also the wingtips of the drones seem to have received the same colour but not the drone controllers, which just had the front of the engine cowl painted.

 

These are two of the Red drone controllers for the Crossroads Baker detonation; 25 and 8. Video from Critical Past is available on Youtube, as are others. You can also see the drones in the background plus white wingtips on two of the White F6F-3Ks in the video.

 

 

I had wondered for a while about another F6F-5 drone controller (below), but now thanks to the video above, I now know that 'Red 5' was named 'Prislyn':

 

 

[Red Dog]

Fantastic info Sabrejet.

What started out as a project to do something slightly oddball or different has been really fascinating, finding out about the whole back story and extra tid bits.

Keep it coming.

[Red Dog]

Orso, would like to hear more about your builds/ planned builds.

Mine are all Academy's 1/72 F6F-3/5 built out of box with no additional changes that the real aircraft had (elongated tail wheel strut, extra horizontal antennae on tail antennae). Just showing off the different coloured paint jobs, besides trying to add that extra antannae would only lead to pain.

Plan on doing one of each colour eventually. So far done yellow, green, pink and dark blue all in final stages of painting.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Red Dog
spelling

[NorthBayKid]

Note that all of the Crossroads F6F-5Ks had an extended tail wheel leg and a much different arrangement of the wire antennas attached to the tail.

[Sabrejet]

34 minutes ago, NorthBayKid said:

Note that all of the Crossroads F6F-5Ks had an extended tail wheel leg and a much different arrangement of the wire antennas attached to the tail.

F6F-3K; the controllers didn't have a specific designation and were all F6F-5s.

[Orso]

5 hours ago, Red Dog said:

Orso, would like to hear more about your builds/ planned builds.

 

I got the Alley Cat decal sheet at bought a bunch of second hand kits cheap thinking of doing one of each colour. I haven't decided if I shall go out of the box or add the longer tail wheels and antenna's.

At the moment five Hasegawa kits are more or less built but not painted and some Academy and Eduard kits are waiting to be built. I need to study pictures of the real planes before I decide on what to do.

[Sabrejet]

A few more F6F-3K shots, showing particularly the fixed (non-retractable), elongated tail wheel mentioned by @NorthBayKid.

 

18 Green: black tail number just visible on the original image.

 

 

 

Testing F6F-3K drone (White 7) and two white-colour F6F-5 controllers Stateside:

 

 

Another oft-seen colour shot of Yellow 11:

 

 

Interesting: This should be Red 9 but obviously re-coloured for the Crossroads Able/Baker test:

 

 

And two White F6F-3Ks (note white wing tips) aboard Shangri-La for the actual test (still from Critical Past):

 

 

[Sabrejet]

And some F6F-5 drone controllers: 29 White front and rear (Critical Past still):

 

 

 

White 8:

 

 

White 9 and (Blue 5?):

 

 

Then Blue and Red F6F-3Ks (left rear) with two Blue and one White drone control F6F-5s at right front:

 

 

[Sabrejet]

And finally a couple of schematics. Aerial fit first:

 

 

Note external Generator Warning Lights (32) & various remote control servos (1), (2) and (3) etc.

 

 

[NorthBayKid]

6 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

F6F-3K; the controllers didn't have a specific designation and were all F6F-5s.

Sorry, that was a typo.  Yes, the parrot fleet were F6F-3Ks.

[Red Dog]

Darn, and here I was thinking 6 or 7 kits would do.

Really do like the different/oddball schemes on many aircraft.

Thanks for those extra shots Sabrejet, they're brilliant. You must have an extensive library.

[Milos Gazdic]

For the extended tail wheel - there was only that small plug added? 

[Sabrejet]

36 minutes ago, Milos Gazdic said:

For the extended tail wheel - there was only that small plug added? 

Yes it seems so: tailwheel on the drone was fixed (not rectractable).

[Milos Gazdic]

17 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Yes it seems so: tailwheel on the drone was fixed (not rectractable).

Which is no surprise due to the length of that extension...