Hook Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Hey folks, I'm probably making a mental wrong turn here somewhere, but bear with me... 😎 On the US Navy Light Gull Gray over Gloss White all moveable surfaces on the generally grey upper sides are to be painted White. Right? So, why aren't the slats on A-4's, A-6's and F-14's painted white? Does anyone (Tailspin Turtle?) know? Cheers, Andre 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Thats a good question. Fair point never thought of that before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBayKid Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 The mysteries of the US Navy. The colour scheme is based on the colour patterns of seagulls (look at photos if you don't believe me), and they don't generally have white slats 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 hm, could it be that an oil leak could be more easily detected on a white surface? And on the slats the white area wouldn't help, as the airstream goes backward? just a guess... Alex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I think some early F-4s had gull gray rudders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewr9fkr9595 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 26 minutes ago, alex said: hm, could it be that an oil leak could be more easily detected on a white surface? And on the slats the white area wouldn't help, as the airstream goes backward? just a guess... Alex Yeah that’s true and why gear bays are/were white so leaks stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) I thought it was only flight control surfaces, ie rudder, elevator, ailerons & spoilers that were painted white. I don't know enough about the above mentioned types to know if the slats were controlled by the pilot or not. Weren't early F-14 slats painted white on the slat leading edges though? Or was that a deicing finish? Some types at least (is Skywarrior), the Gull Grey on the slats extended to their break line on the undersurface of the wing. The oil/fluid leak detection makes some sense, but surely that stands out as much on Gull Grey as white, and why only the US Navy adopt the practice? I think it was to make it easier for us modellers, far easier to mask against control surface lines than the trailing edge 😆 Edited January 12, 2020 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 The specification requested that control surfaces were painted white. Slats are not control surfaces 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, 71chally said: I thought it was only flight control surfaces, ie rudder, elevator, ailerons & spoilers that were painted white. I don't know enough about the above mentioned types to know if the slats were controlled by the pilot or not. Weren't early F-14 slats painted white on the slat leading edges though? Or was that a deicing finish? No white on the Tomcat slats, the leading edges were finished in a corrosion protection paint with a metallic colour (corogard or similar stuff) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) The white for control surfaces was dictated because their skins were relatively thinner than structure, which meant they were more vulnerable to the heat pulse from a nuclear explosion. The rudder was originally gray because it was thought that it was less susceptible, given that the pulse would be from above. However, testing in the presence of nuclear explosions indicated that rudders would be vulnerable so they were included in the requirement. Some rudders were painted white before then. Slats were not control surfaces and probably not considered as susceptible to overtemp. Edited January 13, 2020 by Tailspin Turtle Correct typo 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Who knew, thanks Tommy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 As good as it gets - thanks! Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Slats were not control surfaces and probably not considered as susceptible to overtemp. Especially as they’d usually be retracted when nuclear weapons were going off nearby, and thus protected by the wing - the crew would be leaving as fast as they could. This leaves the question of when rudders went white as well. An earlier thread on this established that they did change later, but didn’t pin this down. It would be handy to know whether your Skyraider or Demon or whatever should have a gray rudder or a white one. As we know, decal instructions aren’t always to be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booty003 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Wow, some proper knowledge right there. I never knew the reason why, only that it looks pretty cool....!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, pigsty said: Especially as they’d usually be retracted when nuclear weapons were going off nearby, and thus protected by the wing - the crew would be leaving as fast as they could. This leaves the question of when rudders went white as well. An earlier thread on this established that they did change later, but didn’t pin this down. It would be handy to know whether your Skyraider or Demon or whatever should have a gray rudder or a white one. As we know, decal instructions aren’t always to be trusted. The change from blue or “natural” metal to gray/white itself took some time to implement. The change to white rudders was formally issued in September 1961 but some squadrons went ahead and did it on their own, not wishing to risk having theirs damaged by “instant sunshine”. The only way to know for sure is to have a picture of the airplane being modeled. For more, see http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/12/changing-from-blue-to-graywhite.html Just a guess, but I suspect that the slats were skinned with a bit heavier sheet metal than the control surfaces. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 On 1/12/2020 at 9:26 PM, 71chally said: I don't know enough about the above mentioned types to know if the slats were controlled by the pilot or not. AFAIK on the A-6 Intruder the slats are linked with the flaps, so they are only out following a control impulse by the pilot (Fujimi's 1/72nd kit notwithstanding). This was one of the things that prompted my original question. Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Slats are controlled by the pilots on the majority of aircraft, only a few have had automatic slats. In any case slats and other leading edge moving surfaces were never considered as "control surfaces" by the USN and therefore did not receive white on their top surfaces. Even on aircraft where the slats were actually used as primary control surfaces (like the Tomcat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 More puzzling is the treatment of surfaces like the spoilers... these on certain types were in white while on others were in grey, with no clear relation to their use as control surfaces.. afterall spoilers were used as primary control surfaces on both the Phantom and the Tomcat but for some reason they were in grey on the former and white on the latter... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Giorgio N said: More puzzling is the treatment of surfaces like the spoilers... these on certain types were in white while on others were in grey, with no clear relation to their use as control surfaces.. afterall spoilers were used as primary control surfaces on both the Phantom and the Tomcat but for some reason they were in grey on the former and white on the latter... “It’s more of a guideline, really”: https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2019/05/grumman-f9f-8-upper-control-surface.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Giorgio N said: More puzzling is the treatment of surfaces like the spoilers And then there’s the dead straight line on the Vigilante’s wing that follows absolutely none of the moving surfaces. We didn’t really pin that down, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 A-5s tended to have a wavy demarkation line, guessing it was extended forwards of the hinge lines so that all the parts of the control surfaces had an application of white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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