Jump to content

As a result of the close-down of the UK by the British Government last night, we have made all the Buy/Sell areas read-only until we open back up again, so please have a look at the announcement linked here.

This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

flarpen

1/48 Junkers Ju-86-K2 by Planes from Hungary

Recommended Posts

39 minutes ago, 28ZComeback said:

Thank you for this information. While I am more confused than ever, I think I am beginning to realize that the colors listed on the Planes Ju-86K decal direction sheet are accurate. 

Don't be confused. When hungarians ordered the Ju 86K-2s in 1936, they had no standardized camouflage colours in the Hungarian Air Force. They were painted the same colours as the other Ju-86s on the production line. According to the documents the paint was delivered for the Junkers by Herbig-Haarhaus AG.  So the Hungarian Ju 86 camouflage is the same as the German Ju 86 colours. This is a "factory new" hungarian Junkers...with German markings :)

 

Regards Viktor

spacer.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/29/2020 at 4:15 PM, 28ZComeback said:

Can anyone comment on the color scheme the Hungarian Ju-86 depicted in the upper left hand corner—and apologies for the poor photo. Thank you spacer.png

What is the source of this image?  Knowing that might help narrow searches for further information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The source is an article in Small Air Forces Observer in 1996. The author may still be alive and I will reach out to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Viktor, since the Junkers factory did not utilize a tannish yellow, and I find no evidence that the Hungarians developed their own. Therefore the yellowish tan Ju-86s as depicted in so many profiles, decals sheets, books and paintings must be apocryphal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No notes from the author. Some profiles suggest it was a late war training/transport scheme. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

The Royal Hunharian Air Force used a yellow camouflage color, but in the case of Ju-86s the documents never mention that they used yellow, but always grey.

 

The Dunai Repülögépgyár  Rt. (Danube Aircraft Factory Ltd.) have repaired the Ju-86s since the mid of 1943. At that time this factory started the production of the Messerschmitt Me 210Ca-1. The repaired Ju-86s probably received the new 210s standard camouflage (RLM74/75/76).

  spacer.png

spacer.png

 

Regards Viktor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People are not allowed to enter the a/c. The entrance hatch under the belly is closed, the lower turret has been removed and the opening plated over. The aircraft fuselage interior cannot be seen at all. The wheel wells are the only "interior" surfaces that are visible. The outer circular wheel well has been repainted in underside blue. The inner portions of the wheel well are mostly in natural metal but with traces of paint visible in places. It has been standing outside for many years before it was taken indoors into the new museum, looking rather tattered then. I'll see if I can find out more. RLM 02 would seem a natural guess.

spacer.png

 

BTW, I've made my pics public now, feel free to take copies.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Podva said:

 

The Dunai Repülögépgyár  Rt. (Danube Aircraft Factory Ltd.) have repaired the Ju-86s since the mid of 1943. At that time this factory started the production of the Messerschmitt Me 210Ca-1. The repaired Ju-86s probably received the new 210s standard camouflage (RLM74/75/76).

  

spacer.png

 

Regards Viktor

 

Thanks - based on that (and the better photo), it may very well have been that this one was in a scheme similar to below:

 

spacer.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Thank you all for the detailed information and photos.  Question: in the top photo the Ju-86 appears to be overall light gray. Another mystery. 

Edited by 28ZComeback

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s posted above by Podva on Sunday —see above photo of Whitish gray Ju-86 taken from behind tail. Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/7/2020 at 11:46 AM, 28ZComeback said:

It’s posted above by Podva on Sunday —see above photo of Whitish gray Ju-86 taken from behind tail. Thank you

I got the answer:
As Magó told me the Royal Hungarian Airforce followed the German painting standards. After 1943 every new aircraft and those that were overhauled and needed repaint got RLM 74/75/76 scheme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Borisz said:

I got the answer:
As Magó told me the Royal Hungarian Airforce followed the German painting standards. After 1943 every new aircraft and those that were overhauled and needed repaint got RLM 74/75/76 scheme.

This is not correct: It is true that the german day fighter camouflage scheme (RLM74/75/76) can be found on the hungarian multipurpose aircrafts that were built since 1943, but it isn’t common. The newly produced, or overhauled aircrafts often had a grey(02), green, green with brown mottled camo.

This is a MÁVAG built Re 2000 Heja-M produced in the middle of 1943.

spacer.png

Best Regards Viktor

Edited by Podva

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t want to open a bag of worms but could it be possible that an overhauled Ju-86 received a mottle application such as the Re-2000?? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Podva said:

This is not correct: It is true that the german day fighter camouflage scheme (RLM74/75/76) can be found on the hungarian multipurpose aircrafts that were built since 1943, but it isn’t common. The newly produced, or overhauled aircrafts often had a grey(02), green, green with brown mottled camo.

This is a MÁVAG built Re 2000 Heja-M produced in the middle of 1943.

 

Best Regards Viktor

 

Sorry I was in hurry and wasnt specific enough.
So: All aircrafts built in the Messer progamme for Hungary and for Germany had to be painted in 74/75/76 scheme. Also in the end of 1943 the Ministry of Defense orderd to every newly manufactured aircraft and those that were overhauled and had in its camo a defect ratio higher than 50% (like chipped, much too worn-out), those all needed to painted with RLM 74/75/76 colors. Because of it the airforce did not order the previous colors in '44 and in the Hungarian repairing plants got such a painting even WM-21, Me-108, Fi-156, Ju-86 and He-46

Quote

A Messzer program keretében minden Magyarországon gyártott gépet (ami a németeknek, és ami a magyaroknak készült) egységesen 74/75/76 sémával kellett festeni. 1943 végén a Honvédelmi Minisztérium elrendelte, hogy minden új gyártású gépen és a javításra kerülő 50%-nál nagyobb festési hibás gépen már egységesen a 74/75/76 színeket kellett használni, ezért 1944-ben már a korábbi színekből nem is rendelt a légierő. Ilyen festéssel készült WM-21, Me 108, Fi 156, Ju 86 és He 46 a magyar javító üzemekben.

Plus:

Podva helyesen írta, ami nem a Messzer programban készült és új gyártású volt, más festést kapott.

28ZComeback: A Ju 86 nagyjavítás során kaphatta a 74/75/76 festést.

 

Podva was right. Newly manufactured ones that wasn't built in the Messer programe got different paintings

 

The Ju-86 may got its 74/75/76 camo during an overhaul.

 

35151264_10209676314144580_3479738097552326656_o

 

 

38782967_10210005312169325_3745360143815016448_o

 

 

Heinkel-He-46-F-322(2)

 

 

Weiss-Manfred-WM-21-F-608

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First thank you for this information and wonderful and illustrative photos. The He-46 photo is very rare. Thank you again! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just your opinion—What color scheme looks best on the Hungarian Ju-86?  End early green/gray scheme, or the 74/75/76 scheme??  Thank you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 28ZComeback said:

Just your opinion—What color scheme looks best on the Hungarian Ju-86?  End early green/gray scheme, or the 74/75/76 scheme??  Thank you. 

If I was You, I'd build both! ;)

Idk, the early is a neat classic one but the 74/75/76 is something realy unique. The size and the shape of the Ju attracts the attention even in its own I think. The 74/75/76 scheme is maybe a little bit of gambling. Can be stunning or ugly as hell on a bomber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm...so my pre-order got cancelled and yet there is now one for sale on eBay.  Less than impressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve had mine for a month. This is a small operation from Hungary. The pre-order was cancelled but you can get the same kit and price from eBay, if the pricing is the same as it was a month ago. I am very very impressed with this kit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot but agree.

This is a beautifully executed kit, pics of the parts can be seen on pages 1 and 3 in this tread.

Not only beautifully detailed and cast, but also astonishingly accurate in shape and all its details. I've studied original Junkers drawings in Swedish archives and looked at the only remaining original plane in the Swedish Air Force Museum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, 28ZComeback said:

I’ve had mine for a month. This is a small operation from Hungary. The pre-order was cancelled but you can get the same kit and price from eBay, if the pricing is the same as it was a month ago. I am very very impressed with this kit. 

That's the point though.  The one being sold on eBay by someone in the USA is almost twice the price of the pre-order.  If I understand it correctly HAD are not selling any at this stage as the rework it.  I can thus only presume that someone is selling one of the limited pre-order ones.  I appreciate the rarity of the subject at present and people's right to sell their purchases but still find it annoying that I had a pre-order placed and accepted (with payment made) then had it cancelled.  This would have been built if received.  To see someone else who presumably did get one of the initial pre-orders put it up for sale at ~twice the price is frustrating.  I know I cannot change this but am still less then impressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GTX said:

That's the point though.  The one being sold on eBay by someone in the USA is almost twice the price of the pre-order.  If I understand it correctly HAD are not selling any at this stage as the rework it.  I can thus only presume that someone is selling one of the limited pre-order ones.  I appreciate the rarity of the subject at present and people's right to sell their purchases but still find it annoying that I had a pre-order placed and accepted (with payment made) then had it cancelled.  This would have been built if received.  To see someone else who presumably did get one of the initial pre-orders put it up for sale at ~twice the price is frustrating.  I know I cannot change this but am still less then impressed.

HAD got 5 kits as payment from Sándor Eses (Planes) for making the decals and instruction.

He elected to sell those kits at a very reduced price compared to what Planes charged for it originally.

He called it a preorder due to the fact that the decals and instructions where not done yet. I'm not sure if he had the intention to sell more kits after the first five where gone.

But I think the fact that Sándor Eses increased the price on the kit by quite some margin after that made HAD models and Hannants as well to rethink the sales of the kit.

 

Why you where able to preorder the kit in the first place may have been due to a glitch in his ordering site.  A buddy of mine ordered the kit but noticed that the amount of available kits did not change after his order (which it did when I ordered mine) and that's probably why your order  got cancelled, you came in as no 6 even if the site probably said one kit left.

If you want to order the kit directly from Sándor Eses (which you can, you can get his email from HAD models) the price is the double as the preorder price HAD sold it for. So the one going on ebay is right up there whit what the kit costs now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know it’s frustrating. I got mine through back channels. I preordered as well. I can’t guarantee that a major kit maker won’t produce such an injected kit in the next ten years, but even if such a kit is produced I doubt it will equal the beauty and detail of the Planes kit. A case in point is the HPH Il-28 Beagle. I paid $125 for the resin kit in 2015. It’s superior in every way to the injected kit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...