Podva Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 39 minutes ago, 28ZComeback said: Thank you for this information. While I am more confused than ever, I think I am beginning to realize that the colors listed on the Planes Ju-86K decal direction sheet are accurate. Don't be confused. When hungarians ordered the Ju 86K-2s in 1936, they had no standardized camouflage colours in the Hungarian Air Force. They were painted the same colours as the other Ju-86s on the production line. According to the documents the paint was delivered for the Junkers by Herbig-Haarhaus AG. So the Hungarian Ju 86 camouflage is the same as the German Ju 86 colours. This is a "factory new" hungarian Junkers...with German markings Regards Viktor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTX Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 On 3/29/2020 at 4:15 PM, 28ZComeback said: Can anyone comment on the color scheme the Hungarian Ju-86 depicted in the upper left hand corner—and apologies for the poor photo. Thank you What is the source of this image? Knowing that might help narrow searches for further information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 The source is an article in Small Air Forces Observer in 1996. The author may still be alive and I will reach out to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 So Viktor, since the Junkers factory did not utilize a tannish yellow, and I find no evidence that the Hungarians developed their own. Therefore the yellowish tan Ju-86s as depicted in so many profiles, decals sheets, books and paintings must be apocryphal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 No notes from the author. Some profiles suggest it was a late war training/transport scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podva Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 Hi The Royal Hunharian Air Force used a yellow camouflage color, but in the case of Ju-86s the documents never mention that they used yellow, but always grey. The Dunai Repülögépgyár Rt. (Danube Aircraft Factory Ltd.) have repaired the Ju-86s since the mid of 1943. At that time this factory started the production of the Messerschmitt Me 210Ca-1. The repaired Ju-86s probably received the new 210s standard camouflage (RLM74/75/76). Regards Viktor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 People are not allowed to enter the a/c. The entrance hatch under the belly is closed, the lower turret has been removed and the opening plated over. The aircraft fuselage interior cannot be seen at all. The wheel wells are the only "interior" surfaces that are visible. The outer circular wheel well has been repainted in underside blue. The inner portions of the wheel well are mostly in natural metal but with traces of paint visible in places. It has been standing outside for many years before it was taken indoors into the new museum, looking rather tattered then. I'll see if I can find out more. RLM 02 would seem a natural guess. BTW, I've made my pics public now, feel free to take copies. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTX Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 7 hours ago, Podva said: The Dunai Repülögépgyár Rt. (Danube Aircraft Factory Ltd.) have repaired the Ju-86s since the mid of 1943. At that time this factory started the production of the Messerschmitt Me 210Ca-1. The repaired Ju-86s probably received the new 210s standard camouflage (RLM74/75/76). Regards Viktor Thanks - based on that (and the better photo), it may very well have been that this one was in a scheme similar to below: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisz Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 @28ZComeback Maybe you should check out this site: http://hungarianfightercolours.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) Thank you all for the detailed information and photos. Question: in the top photo the Ju-86 appears to be overall light gray. Another mystery. Edited April 5, 2020 by 28ZComeback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisz Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Can you copy this photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 It’s posted above by Podva on Sunday —see above photo of Whitish gray Ju-86 taken from behind tail. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisz Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 On 4/7/2020 at 11:46 AM, 28ZComeback said: It’s posted above by Podva on Sunday —see above photo of Whitish gray Ju-86 taken from behind tail. Thank you I got the answer: As Magó told me the Royal Hungarian Airforce followed the German painting standards. After 1943 every new aircraft and those that were overhauled and needed repaint got RLM 74/75/76 scheme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podva Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Borisz said: I got the answer: As Magó told me the Royal Hungarian Airforce followed the German painting standards. After 1943 every new aircraft and those that were overhauled and needed repaint got RLM 74/75/76 scheme. This is not correct: It is true that the german day fighter camouflage scheme (RLM74/75/76) can be found on the hungarian multipurpose aircrafts that were built since 1943, but it isn’t common. The newly produced, or overhauled aircrafts often had a grey(02), green, green with brown mottled camo. This is a MÁVAG built Re 2000 Heja-M produced in the middle of 1943. Best Regards Viktor Edited April 9, 2020 by Podva 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I don’t want to open a bag of worms but could it be possible that an overhauled Ju-86 received a mottle application such as the Re-2000?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisz Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Podva said: This is not correct: It is true that the german day fighter camouflage scheme (RLM74/75/76) can be found on the hungarian multipurpose aircrafts that were built since 1943, but it isn’t common. The newly produced, or overhauled aircrafts often had a grey(02), green, green with brown mottled camo. This is a MÁVAG built Re 2000 Heja-M produced in the middle of 1943. Best Regards Viktor Sorry I was in hurry and wasnt specific enough. So: All aircrafts built in the Messer progamme for Hungary and for Germany had to be painted in 74/75/76 scheme. Also in the end of 1943 the Ministry of Defense orderd to every newly manufactured aircraft and those that were overhauled and had in its camo a defect ratio higher than 50% (like chipped, much too worn-out), those all needed to painted with RLM 74/75/76 colors. Because of it the airforce did not order the previous colors in '44 and in the Hungarian repairing plants got such a painting even WM-21, Me-108, Fi-156, Ju-86 and He-46 Quote A Messzer program keretében minden Magyarországon gyártott gépet (ami a németeknek, és ami a magyaroknak készült) egységesen 74/75/76 sémával kellett festeni. 1943 végén a Honvédelmi Minisztérium elrendelte, hogy minden új gyártású gépen és a javításra kerülő 50%-nál nagyobb festési hibás gépen már egységesen a 74/75/76 színeket kellett használni, ezért 1944-ben már a korábbi színekből nem is rendelt a légierő. Ilyen festéssel készült WM-21, Me 108, Fi 156, Ju 86 és He 46 a magyar javító üzemekben. Plus: Podva helyesen írta, ami nem a Messzer programban készült és új gyártású volt, más festést kapott. 28ZComeback: A Ju 86 nagyjavítás során kaphatta a 74/75/76 festést. Podva was right. Newly manufactured ones that wasn't built in the Messer programe got different paintings The Ju-86 may got its 74/75/76 camo during an overhaul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 First thank you for this information and wonderful and illustrative photos. The He-46 photo is very rare. Thank you again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Just your opinion—What color scheme looks best on the Hungarian Ju-86? End early green/gray scheme, or the 74/75/76 scheme?? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisz Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 5 hours ago, 28ZComeback said: Just your opinion—What color scheme looks best on the Hungarian Ju-86? End early green/gray scheme, or the 74/75/76 scheme?? Thank you. If I was You, I'd build both! Idk, the early is a neat classic one but the 74/75/76 is something realy unique. The size and the shape of the Ju attracts the attention even in its own I think. The 74/75/76 scheme is maybe a little bit of gambling. Can be stunning or ugly as hell on a bomber. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTX Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Hmmm...so my pre-order got cancelled and yet there is now one for sale on eBay. Less than impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 I’ve had mine for a month. This is a small operation from Hungary. The pre-order was cancelled but you can get the same kit and price from eBay, if the pricing is the same as it was a month ago. I am very very impressed with this kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 I cannot but agree. This is a beautifully executed kit, pics of the parts can be seen on pages 1 and 3 in this tread. Not only beautifully detailed and cast, but also astonishingly accurate in shape and all its details. I've studied original Junkers drawings in Swedish archives and looked at the only remaining original plane in the Swedish Air Force Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTX Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 23 hours ago, 28ZComeback said: I’ve had mine for a month. This is a small operation from Hungary. The pre-order was cancelled but you can get the same kit and price from eBay, if the pricing is the same as it was a month ago. I am very very impressed with this kit. That's the point though. The one being sold on eBay by someone in the USA is almost twice the price of the pre-order. If I understand it correctly HAD are not selling any at this stage as the rework it. I can thus only presume that someone is selling one of the limited pre-order ones. I appreciate the rarity of the subject at present and people's right to sell their purchases but still find it annoying that I had a pre-order placed and accepted (with payment made) then had it cancelled. This would have been built if received. To see someone else who presumably did get one of the initial pre-orders put it up for sale at ~twice the price is frustrating. I know I cannot change this but am still less then impressed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flarpen Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 hour ago, GTX said: That's the point though. The one being sold on eBay by someone in the USA is almost twice the price of the pre-order. If I understand it correctly HAD are not selling any at this stage as the rework it. I can thus only presume that someone is selling one of the limited pre-order ones. I appreciate the rarity of the subject at present and people's right to sell their purchases but still find it annoying that I had a pre-order placed and accepted (with payment made) then had it cancelled. This would have been built if received. To see someone else who presumably did get one of the initial pre-orders put it up for sale at ~twice the price is frustrating. I know I cannot change this but am still less then impressed. HAD got 5 kits as payment from Sándor Eses (Planes) for making the decals and instruction. He elected to sell those kits at a very reduced price compared to what Planes charged for it originally. He called it a preorder due to the fact that the decals and instructions where not done yet. I'm not sure if he had the intention to sell more kits after the first five where gone. But I think the fact that Sándor Eses increased the price on the kit by quite some margin after that made HAD models and Hannants as well to rethink the sales of the kit. Why you where able to preorder the kit in the first place may have been due to a glitch in his ordering site. A buddy of mine ordered the kit but noticed that the amount of available kits did not change after his order (which it did when I ordered mine) and that's probably why your order got cancelled, you came in as no 6 even if the site probably said one kit left. If you want to order the kit directly from Sándor Eses (which you can, you can get his email from HAD models) the price is the double as the preorder price HAD sold it for. So the one going on ebay is right up there whit what the kit costs now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 I know it’s frustrating. I got mine through back channels. I preordered as well. I can’t guarantee that a major kit maker won’t produce such an injected kit in the next ten years, but even if such a kit is produced I doubt it will equal the beauty and detail of the Planes kit. A case in point is the HPH Il-28 Beagle. I paid $125 for the resin kit in 2015. It’s superior in every way to the injected kit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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