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JWM

Canadian Stranraer - what have I to change in Matchbox/Revell kit?

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1 hour ago, dogsbody said:

Here's an image of a Peggy-powered Stranraer with two different cowling:

 

Two diferent cowlings in one airplane - this is a bizzare instalation, really! 

Regarding prop rotation - I have to recall French Gnome-Rhone engines which had mirror-like variants L and R of different pitch.

Regards

J-W

 

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13 minutes ago, JWM said:

Two diferent cowlings in one airplane - this is a bizzare instalation, really! 

Regarding prop rotation - I have to recall French Gnome-Rhone engines which had mirror-like variants L and R of different pitch.

Regards

J-W

 

 

That was an attempt to control propwash and engine torgue so the pilot didn't have to constantly apply rudder to correct the effect. This was before trim tabs came into regular usage. Bristol didn't, as far as I know, produce engines with opposite rotation.

 

 

 

Chris

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11 hours ago, dogsbody said:

 

Here's an image of a Peggy-powered Stranraer with two different cowling:

 

46118001791_96a8b92fab_o.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

Looking at the props on this one, remind me of Blenheim props (thinking of the ones from SBS models).  Do you think those would be suitable?

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On 1/15/2020 at 1:56 AM, dogsbody said:

49387337067_a3a7714cf8_b.jpg

 

Thank you Carl (and Chris) for sharing these beautiful photos.

Looking at the colour image of 955, I'd think the fuselage is in four-colour shadow-shading camouflage. Is it just me, or does anybody agree?

 

Claudio

 

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58 minutes ago, ClaudioN said:

hank you Carl (and Chris) for sharing these beautiful photos.

Looking at the colour image of 955, I'd think the fuselage is in four-colour shadow-shading camouflage. Is it just me, or does anybody agree?

 

Claudio

Claudio, of course it is four coloures shadow shading sea scheme :)

Cheers

J-W

 

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35 minutes ago, JWM said:

Claudio, of course it is four colours shadow shading sea scheme :)

Cheers

J-W

 

That's why I asked.

I do not recall Matchbox/Revell suggesting any four colour scheme on their instructions, so was it only the RCAF that followed the correct Air Diagram for camouflage, or Revell/Matchbox missed on this?

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6 hours ago, ClaudioN said:

That's why I asked.

I do not recall Matchbox/Revell suggesting any four colour scheme on their instructions, so was it only the RCAF that followed the correct Air Diagram for camouflage, or Revell/Matchbox missed on this?

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmQspn68ApVtmS1VZtIkaSTRANRAER_937.jpg

 

For sure RCAF Stranraers had shadow shading as is clearly seen on many photos (as above photo) or profile.

Below are two takes of RAF machines, where it is not that much obvious:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSp1x7OG9GOviX_AYL012lREVE04277_m.jpg

BTW - in Net (https://www.a-e-g.org.uk/supermarine-stranraer.html) I have found interesting take of a RAF Stranraer from He-111 gunner position:

03-stranraer.jpg?1539953012

Please note "A" roundles on top!

Cheers

J-W

 

 

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6 hours ago, ClaudioN said:

That's why I asked.

I do not recall Matchbox/Revell suggesting any four colour scheme on their instructions, so was it only the RCAF that followed the correct Air Diagram for camouflage, or Revell/Matchbox missed on this?

 

 

The 240 Squadron one in the kit certainly looked like it was finished in the monoplane scheme with just two upper colours

 

supermarine_stranraer.jpg

 

 

large_CH_002551_1.jpg

Compared to this Canadian one in obvious 4 tone

 

Supermarine_Stranraer_2_ExCC.jpg

Edited by Dave Fleming

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Apologies, did not manage to contribute as intended the other day!

First, here are some photos as promised of the Canadian Browning installation. I believe these originate from the RCAF archives but am not sure on what Internet route I came by them - if there is a caopyright issue I will happily remove them.

49404040346_536a721e9c_b.jpg

 

49404040376_c4cecdb2b0_b.jpg

 

Secondly, Dogsbody's image is indeed the one I have showing the two  Pegasus cowling designs. I suspect the difference is in the thickness and internal diameter of the collector ring. I have no idea why both were used!  The RAF used the wider aperture style  fitted to the left of the picture. As WM Blekcy notes, the original Canadian aircraft had constant speed (or at least adjustable-pitch props a la Blenheim - although I suspect that the diameter is larger. At some point these ere replaced by the four-bladed wooden ones which are two two-bladers fitted together.

 

Note for anyone building a post-war Stranraer with the Cyclone engines and Hamilton Standard (I think) props, this installation comes with an enlarged oil cooler, which can still be seen on 920 at Hendon. Matchbox took the trouble to get this detail right however, and the kit features the narrower wartime style.

 

I mentioned in my earlier post about reshaping the kit cowlings - this image shows what I did. The radius of the curve in the collector ring is too small, the cowling aft of the collector ring is too parallel sides, and the trailing edge is too thick. These problems can be solved by building up the cowling halves and gradually re profiling them with sandpaper. I also widened out the aperture of the collector ring to represent the RAF pegasus cowling style

30515358827_620c0b7b0e_b.jpg

 

As others have alluded to, you will need to hollow out the wing for the semi-recessed Small Bomb Carrier racks, and cut a Cross Of Lorraine-shaped hole for the mountings for the standard bomb racks. These holes are doped over on 920 and Matchbox did not add them in. This is the best image I can find showing them (again, will happily remove if infringing copyright)

 

49404098786_cd299c09d1_b.jpg

 

Lastly, you will need to add the fairings on the top of the forward pair of struts under the nacelles. I have no idea what these covered but they are present on all Pegasus engined-machines, absent on 920 and missed by Matchbox.  Seen here on K3973, the starboard one is clearly visible below the 4 o'clock prop blade tip. (My photo of a print in the original 1937 MA&AEE testing report from the National Archives)

 

49403639688_5d38e2c9c3_b.jpg

 

Hope this helps!

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Vulcanicity

 

Carl asked me to respond as I do most of his archival photographic work.  The images you posted of the Browning installation are from the RCAF HC series of photographs held by Library and Archives Canada.  The copyright has expired and according to LAC anyone is free to use them, although they would like, though cannot insist on, an archival citation, so have no fear about the posting. 

Elizabeth V

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Am I right in thinking the Queen Charlotte machine had cowlings off a Hudson to go with the Wright engines?  If that's the case the MPM kit might be a source if one were interested in the civilian period.

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1 hour ago, Vulcanicity said:

Hope this helps!

Many thanks! It helps for sure. The cutting openings in lower part of bottom wing is much easier before I will glue it together. I think in your build you noticed it later, did you?

I have found in net also a double Browning in rear gunner position. Was it a rule for all RCAF mashines?

I tink that there is also a small difference in navigation equipment (DF loop) between RAF and RCAF. The RAF machines has a large loop on top of the wings, whereas RCAF in similar place a smaller one in a fairing. 

Regards

J-W

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P.S.

The side profile of the cowling is very well visible here

49387337067_a3a7714cf8_b.jpg

it  seem to be more cylindrical, than conic, I am affraid to say. So maybe besides front side there are also back side differeces?

J-W

 

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3 hours ago, Vulcanicity said:

 

49403639688_5d38e2c9c3_b.jpg

 

Hope this helps!

 

I see this Stranraer has been fitted with 3-blade fixed-pitch Fairey-Reed type metal propellers, as you would see on a Fairey Swordfish. Interesting.

 

 

Chris

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Alright! Carl and Elizabeth Vincent have sent me another lot of RCAF Stranraer photos. This is the last batch. Again, some information from Carl.

 

I.    I have not been able to completely kick the Stranraer addiction and have just had a look at my long-neglected archival notes. If anybody wants real grief, let

      them try to make sense of an enormous quantity of cryptic penciled notes made a decade or more ago!

 

II.    I was primarily interested in the propeller story. There was so much there that I recoiled in horror at the prospect of trying to make sense of it in any

       reasonable length of time. An initial and possibly erroneous impression was that the wooden four-bladers were selected because they could be built in Canada and the

       Fairey-Reed props could not be supplied, at least in time. However, the hubs had to be ordered from Bristol which caused some delay.

 

III.   A fair percentage of the material deals with the RCAF’s struggle to make the Stranraer suitable for Canadian winter conditions. It is easy to see why the

       RCAF went off flying boats in general and Stranraers in particular and why the latter were hustled out to WAC as soon as the Cansos became available.

 

IV.   A little bit of trivia on this subject is that the CO of RCAF Dartmouth recommended in January 1939 that rum or brandy should be added to the medical

       supplies on the Stranraer. The Dir. Gen. of Medical Services agreed, replying that 8 ounces of rum per aircraft should be supplied in a special metal flask separate

       from the rest of the medical stores. Possibly this information will be useful to somebody who wishes to build a hyper- scale model of the Stranraer interior!

 

V.    JWM – the photo you posted purporting to show a Stranraer taken from a He 111, according to Christopher Shores’ excellent Fledgling Eagles, is Saro

       London K6525 of 240 Squadron on 19 December 1939.

 

VI.   I have come across six photographs of early Stranraers at Dartmouth in 1938/1939. These were pasted into the files that I was researching way back and my

       wife Elizabeth was good enough to photograph them for me. As the original prints were somewhat distorted and nearly terminally faded, I think she did a fairly

       good job.

 

 

49404513683_af56dbcc49_b.jpg

 

49404994681_87276789be_b.jpg

 

49404994706_e7f5dce7d7_b.jpg

 

49404513748_83f11b26e4_b.jpg

 

49404513763_dbf05014f0_b.jpg

 

49404513803_2efca56228_b.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

           

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Yet again great pics and I dare say judging by those icing photos, the decision to include brandy was obviously sound advice! 
Cheers.. Dave (who now wants to start building his Matchbox kit!). 

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1 hour ago, dogsbody said:

JWM – the photo you posted purporting to show a Stranraer taken from a He 111, according to Christopher Shores’ excellent Fledgling Eagles, is Saro

       London K6525 of 240 Squadron on 19 December 1939.

 

indeed, sorry - I was suggested by description in web page (there is a link given in my post).

Chris, Carl and Elisabeth - again mamy thanks!

J-W

 

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On 18/01/2020 at 08:59, Vulcanicity said:

I mentioned in my earlier post about reshaping the kit cowlings - this image shows what I did. The radius of the curve in the collector ring is too small, the cowling aft of the collector ring is too parallel sides, and the trailing edge is too thick. These problems can be solved by building up the cowling halves and gradually re profiling them with sandpaper. I also widened out the aperture of the collector ring to represent the RAF pegasus cowling style

30515358827_620c0b7b0e_b.jpg

 

 

Has anyone noticed that the upper rear edge of the Stranraer's Pegasus engine cowling is cut away? I just now noticed it while going back through this topic.

 

49415748893_7062df990b_b.jpg

 

49416225941_b86c7d5b8d_o.jpg

 

49416435562_a9412d4ab5_o.jpg

 

 

 

 

Chris

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43 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

Has anyone noticed that the upper rear edge of the Stranraer's Pegasus engine cowling is cut away? I just now noticed it while going back through this topic.

 

Good observation!

Regards

J-W

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On 1/18/2020 at 8:57 PM, Rabbit Leader said:

Yet again great pics and I dare say judging by those icing photos, the decision to include brandy was obviously sound advice! 
Cheers.. Dave (who now wants to start building his Matchbox kit!). 

YES! The shadow shading will look splendid on a Stranraer. I did it on a Walrus and a Gladiator. All I have to do is remember how to mask it 😊

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20 hours ago, dogsbody said:

 

Has anyone noticed that the upper rear edge of the Stranraer's Pegasus engine cowling is cut away? I just now noticed it while going back through this topic.

 

 

Aha! I had noticed that depicted in the Cox plans as you did but never managed to find photographic evidence to support it so left my cowlings unmodified. I spent most of my effort on researching RAF machines so I wonder if it's another distinguishing feature of the second, RCAF-specific Pegasus cowling design?

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Wow! Who knew there were so few profile-like photos of RAF Stranraers! I just finished a GOOGLE image search and the majority of Strannie photos are RCAF machines. Even the IWM only has a few.

I did find one clear photo that looks like it doesn't have that upper cowling cut-back.

 

49421032742_8c4828508d_b.jpg

 

 

 

I did however find another photo showing one fitted with the Fairey-Reed fixed-pitch metal props. It could be the same one that's in the other photo.

 

70-1.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

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The k3973 is the Stranraer prototype as I've learnt from here (https://www.mediastorehouse.com/mary-evans-prints-online/royal-aeronautical-society/photographic/prototype-supermarine-stranraer-k3973-9899935.html ) so can have different cowlings, but it is not so, here you have also stright cowling back edges (this is the same k7287 on both takes):

d79243b4055d0ebdb2dd5bcab27dd472.jpg

2409L.jpg

 

More you came into forest, more trees you see... :)

Regards

J-W

 

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While looking through my small stack of High Flight magazines, I noticed this cover. That Strannie also has two different sized exhaust collectors.

The caption only says: Supermarine Stranraer off the Pacific Coast

 

 

49456414897_b101a2b883_b.jpg

 

 

 

 

Chris

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