JWM Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, dogsbody said: Here's an image of a Peggy-powered Stranraer with two different cowling: Two diferent cowlings in one airplane - this is a bizzare instalation, really! Regarding prop rotation - I have to recall French Gnome-Rhone engines which had mirror-like variants L and R of different pitch. Regards J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, JWM said: Two diferent cowlings in one airplane - this is a bizzare instalation, really! Regarding prop rotation - I have to recall French Gnome-Rhone engines which had mirror-like variants L and R of different pitch. Regards J-W That was an attempt to control propwash and engine torgue so the pilot didn't have to constantly apply rudder to correct the effect. This was before trim tabs came into regular usage. Bristol didn't, as far as I know, produce engines with opposite rotation. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wm Blecky Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 11 hours ago, dogsbody said: Here's an image of a Peggy-powered Stranraer with two different cowling: Chris Looking at the props on this one, remind me of Blenheim props (thinking of the ones from SBS models). Do you think those would be suitable? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/15/2020 at 1:56 AM, dogsbody said: Thank you Carl (and Chris) for sharing these beautiful photos. Looking at the colour image of 955, I'd think the fuselage is in four-colour shadow-shading camouflage. Is it just me, or does anybody agree? Claudio 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 58 minutes ago, ClaudioN said: hank you Carl (and Chris) for sharing these beautiful photos. Looking at the colour image of 955, I'd think the fuselage is in four-colour shadow-shading camouflage. Is it just me, or does anybody agree? Claudio Claudio, of course it is four coloures shadow shading sea scheme Cheers J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, JWM said: Claudio, of course it is four colours shadow shading sea scheme Cheers J-W That's why I asked. I do not recall Matchbox/Revell suggesting any four colour scheme on their instructions, so was it only the RCAF that followed the correct Air Diagram for camouflage, or Revell/Matchbox missed on this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 6 hours ago, ClaudioN said: That's why I asked. I do not recall Matchbox/Revell suggesting any four colour scheme on their instructions, so was it only the RCAF that followed the correct Air Diagram for camouflage, or Revell/Matchbox missed on this? For sure RCAF Stranraers had shadow shading as is clearly seen on many photos (as above photo) or profile. Below are two takes of RAF machines, where it is not that much obvious: BTW - in Net (https://www.a-e-g.org.uk/supermarine-stranraer.html) I have found interesting take of a RAF Stranraer from He-111 gunner position: Please note "A" roundles on top! Cheers J-W 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, ClaudioN said: That's why I asked. I do not recall Matchbox/Revell suggesting any four colour scheme on their instructions, so was it only the RCAF that followed the correct Air Diagram for camouflage, or Revell/Matchbox missed on this? The 240 Squadron one in the kit certainly looked like it was finished in the monoplane scheme with just two upper colours Compared to this Canadian one in obvious 4 tone Edited January 17, 2020 by Dave Fleming 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I need to go back and check the dates, but the RAF Stranraers started to be camouflaged in 1938 (see here) which I think was before the 4 colour scheme was introduced. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205059838 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcanicity Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Apologies, did not manage to contribute as intended the other day! First, here are some photos as promised of the Canadian Browning installation. I believe these originate from the RCAF archives but am not sure on what Internet route I came by them - if there is a caopyright issue I will happily remove them. Secondly, Dogsbody's image is indeed the one I have showing the two Pegasus cowling designs. I suspect the difference is in the thickness and internal diameter of the collector ring. I have no idea why both were used! The RAF used the wider aperture style fitted to the left of the picture. As WM Blekcy notes, the original Canadian aircraft had constant speed (or at least adjustable-pitch props a la Blenheim - although I suspect that the diameter is larger. At some point these ere replaced by the four-bladed wooden ones which are two two-bladers fitted together. Note for anyone building a post-war Stranraer with the Cyclone engines and Hamilton Standard (I think) props, this installation comes with an enlarged oil cooler, which can still be seen on 920 at Hendon. Matchbox took the trouble to get this detail right however, and the kit features the narrower wartime style. I mentioned in my earlier post about reshaping the kit cowlings - this image shows what I did. The radius of the curve in the collector ring is too small, the cowling aft of the collector ring is too parallel sides, and the trailing edge is too thick. These problems can be solved by building up the cowling halves and gradually re profiling them with sandpaper. I also widened out the aperture of the collector ring to represent the RAF pegasus cowling style As others have alluded to, you will need to hollow out the wing for the semi-recessed Small Bomb Carrier racks, and cut a Cross Of Lorraine-shaped hole for the mountings for the standard bomb racks. These holes are doped over on 920 and Matchbox did not add them in. This is the best image I can find showing them (again, will happily remove if infringing copyright) Lastly, you will need to add the fairings on the top of the forward pair of struts under the nacelles. I have no idea what these covered but they are present on all Pegasus engined-machines, absent on 920 and missed by Matchbox. Seen here on K3973, the starboard one is clearly visible below the 4 o'clock prop blade tip. (My photo of a print in the original 1937 MA&AEE testing report from the National Archives) Hope this helps! 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl V Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Vulcanicity Carl asked me to respond as I do most of his archival photographic work. The images you posted of the Browning installation are from the RCAF HC series of photographs held by Library and Archives Canada. The copyright has expired and according to LAC anyone is free to use them, although they would like, though cannot insist on, an archival citation, so have no fear about the posting. Elizabeth V 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Am I right in thinking the Queen Charlotte machine had cowlings off a Hudson to go with the Wright engines? If that's the case the MPM kit might be a source if one were interested in the civilian period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Vulcanicity said: Hope this helps! Many thanks! It helps for sure. The cutting openings in lower part of bottom wing is much easier before I will glue it together. I think in your build you noticed it later, did you? I have found in net also a double Browning in rear gunner position. Was it a rule for all RCAF mashines? I tink that there is also a small difference in navigation equipment (DF loop) between RAF and RCAF. The RAF machines has a large loop on top of the wings, whereas RCAF in similar place a smaller one in a fairing. Regards J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 P.S. The side profile of the cowling is very well visible here it seem to be more cylindrical, than conic, I am affraid to say. So maybe besides front side there are also back side differeces? J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Vulcanicity said: Hope this helps! I see this Stranraer has been fitted with 3-blade fixed-pitch Fairey-Reed type metal propellers, as you would see on a Fairey Swordfish. Interesting. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Alright! Carl and Elizabeth Vincent have sent me another lot of RCAF Stranraer photos. This is the last batch. Again, some information from Carl. I. I have not been able to completely kick the Stranraer addiction and have just had a look at my long-neglected archival notes. If anybody wants real grief, let them try to make sense of an enormous quantity of cryptic penciled notes made a decade or more ago! II. I was primarily interested in the propeller story. There was so much there that I recoiled in horror at the prospect of trying to make sense of it in any reasonable length of time. An initial and possibly erroneous impression was that the wooden four-bladers were selected because they could be built in Canada and the Fairey-Reed props could not be supplied, at least in time. However, the hubs had to be ordered from Bristol which caused some delay. III. A fair percentage of the material deals with the RCAF’s struggle to make the Stranraer suitable for Canadian winter conditions. It is easy to see why the RCAF went off flying boats in general and Stranraers in particular and why the latter were hustled out to WAC as soon as the Cansos became available. IV. A little bit of trivia on this subject is that the CO of RCAF Dartmouth recommended in January 1939 that rum or brandy should be added to the medical supplies on the Stranraer. The Dir. Gen. of Medical Services agreed, replying that 8 ounces of rum per aircraft should be supplied in a special metal flask separate from the rest of the medical stores. Possibly this information will be useful to somebody who wishes to build a hyper- scale model of the Stranraer interior! V. JWM – the photo you posted purporting to show a Stranraer taken from a He 111, according to Christopher Shores’ excellent Fledgling Eagles, is Saro London K6525 of 240 Squadron on 19 December 1939. VI. I have come across six photographs of early Stranraers at Dartmouth in 1938/1939. These were pasted into the files that I was researching way back and my wife Elizabeth was good enough to photograph them for me. As the original prints were somewhat distorted and nearly terminally faded, I think she did a fairly good job. Chris 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Yet again great pics and I dare say judging by those icing photos, the decision to include brandy was obviously sound advice! Cheers.. Dave (who now wants to start building his Matchbox kit!). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, dogsbody said: JWM – the photo you posted purporting to show a Stranraer taken from a He 111, according to Christopher Shores’ excellent Fledgling Eagles, is Saro London K6525 of 240 Squadron on 19 December 1939. indeed, sorry - I was suggested by description in web page (there is a link given in my post). Chris, Carl and Elisabeth - again mamy thanks! J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 18/01/2020 at 08:59, Vulcanicity said: I mentioned in my earlier post about reshaping the kit cowlings - this image shows what I did. The radius of the curve in the collector ring is too small, the cowling aft of the collector ring is too parallel sides, and the trailing edge is too thick. These problems can be solved by building up the cowling halves and gradually re profiling them with sandpaper. I also widened out the aperture of the collector ring to represent the RAF pegasus cowling style Has anyone noticed that the upper rear edge of the Stranraer's Pegasus engine cowling is cut away? I just now noticed it while going back through this topic. Chris 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 43 minutes ago, dogsbody said: Has anyone noticed that the upper rear edge of the Stranraer's Pegasus engine cowling is cut away? I just now noticed it while going back through this topic. Good observation! Regards J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Hills Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 8:57 PM, Rabbit Leader said: Yet again great pics and I dare say judging by those icing photos, the decision to include brandy was obviously sound advice! Cheers.. Dave (who now wants to start building his Matchbox kit!). YES! The shadow shading will look splendid on a Stranraer. I did it on a Walrus and a Gladiator. All I have to do is remember how to mask it 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcanicity Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 20 hours ago, dogsbody said: Has anyone noticed that the upper rear edge of the Stranraer's Pegasus engine cowling is cut away? I just now noticed it while going back through this topic. Aha! I had noticed that depicted in the Cox plans as you did but never managed to find photographic evidence to support it so left my cowlings unmodified. I spent most of my effort on researching RAF machines so I wonder if it's another distinguishing feature of the second, RCAF-specific Pegasus cowling design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Wow! Who knew there were so few profile-like photos of RAF Stranraers! I just finished a GOOGLE image search and the majority of Strannie photos are RCAF machines. Even the IWM only has a few. I did find one clear photo that looks like it doesn't have that upper cowling cut-back. I did however find another photo showing one fitted with the Fairey-Reed fixed-pitch metal props. It could be the same one that's in the other photo. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 The k3973 is the Stranraer prototype as I've learnt from here (https://www.mediastorehouse.com/mary-evans-prints-online/royal-aeronautical-society/photographic/prototype-supermarine-stranraer-k3973-9899935.html ) so can have different cowlings, but it is not so, here you have also stright cowling back edges (this is the same k7287 on both takes): More you came into forest, more trees you see... Regards J-W 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 While looking through my small stack of High Flight magazines, I noticed this cover. That Strannie also has two different sized exhaust collectors. The caption only says: Supermarine Stranraer off the Pacific Coast Chris 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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