Carl V Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Below are a few Stranraer comments indicating the fascination of the topic, which I meant to go with the photos which Dogsbody posted at my request. I. I am beginning to experience the symptoms of re-addiction to the Stranraer and hope that this last post will help me get out from under. I have had a book on the subject under way for quite a few years now and a decade or so ago compiled numerous notes at the Archives as well as collecting something under 150 photos over the years. However, other aircraft have priority so, unless somebody gives me a few slurps from the Fountain of Youth, a complete book may not see the light of day. Thus I am sharing a few of my photos. That will be it for a while, but thank you all for those kind words and comments. II. I have little to say on the subject of 4/3 bladed propellers although I vaguely recall that the answer is there in my notes. A hasty survey indicates that the earliest photos showing the 3-blader date from November 1941. Whether the substitution of the Pegasus XXII for the XX had anything to do with it, I cannot say at the moment. III. About all I can say about the code letters on camouflaged Stranraers is that the majority were in a light colour. A few were undoubtedly in black. One lesson that I have learned in half a century of RCAF research is that a search for consistency or rational explanation of inconsistency is a waste of time. It is truly a case of the exception being the rule. Carl 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 Many thanks Carl and Chris for net set of photos. They are really mervelous. Many very interetsting details became clear - for example the camo upper colours on sides of engine nacelles below the wing (in my 50 years of modelling I never saw something like that perhaps) , with thin underside colour right on the bottom. Also the top of the struts in sky colour. Lack of sliding rails on the last window, for example. The 955 on colour photo -are they 3 or 4 blades props? looks more like 3 but I am not sure... Regards J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Thank you for sharing those pictures. A very generous gesture indeed. Tony. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wm Blecky Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Perhaps you will find this build of the Matchbox kit helpful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 If I may go back to the one of the original questions - are the Matchbox engine/cowlings correct for a wartime Stranraer (RAF or RCAF)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 9 hours ago, JWM said: The 955 on colour photo -are they 3 or 4 blades props? looks more like 3 but I am not sure... Regards J-W 3-blade metal. See the prop hubs and the thinness of the blade root near the hub. 7 hours ago, Wm Blecky said: Perhaps you will find this build of the Matchbox kit helpful. Nice, but the engines are painted wrong. 5 hours ago, Dave Fleming said: If I may go back to the one of the original questions - are the Matchbox engine/cowlings correct for a wartime Stranraer (RAF or RCAF)? Yes. Chris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 17 hours ago, dogsbody said: No, that won't work. The pitch of the prop stays the same, no matter which way you mount it on the engine. Below, I have dug my old ( very ) Airfix Walrus prop out of the spares and have taken pictures of both sides. Pitch is the same. Surely, you're right - I forgot that they both turn clockwise when seen from ahead :( Cheers Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 I think that 4 blades props Stranraer looks more sexy (eye attractive). Maybe it is the clash of a bit ancient biplane structure of plane with four blades... Of course one can argue that even in WWI there were such 4 blades props (2x2)... Anyway I will go with it. The AZ Gauntlet two blade prop looks right (or at least "good enough" ). Airfix Gladiator (as well as Sword one) has central part a bit conic (as should be in case of Gladiator), so not suitable at all. I do not have more Britts with Pegasus in stash with 2 blade wooden props. Of no Britts with Pegasus it could be (I have in stash) Letov 328 (the prop looks to me too big) similar large looks prop of Fokker CVE. Anyway I already immersed Gauntlet prop in silicon... BTW - what should be diameter of this four blade prop? Maybe it is known? Cheers J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 8 hours ago, Dave Fleming said: If I may go back to the one of the original questions - are the Matchbox engine/cowlings correct for a wartime Stranraer (RAF or RCAF)? I believe that Matchbox based their kit on the Stranny in Hendon. IIRC (although it's a while since I laid eyes on it) it's an ex-Queen Charlotte Airlines aircraft and so has the Wright engines, which means it's not representative of RAF/RCAF aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, Admiral Puff said: I believe that Matchbox based their kit on the Stranny in Hendon. IIRC (although it's a while since I laid eyes on it) it's an ex-Queen Charlotte Airlines aircraft and so has the Wright engines, which means it's not representative of RAF/RCAF aircraft. At least props are definitly different in model and it what I have found in net as Stranraer from Hendon (BTW - I've seen it but I was there but in the 1976 or 1977...) The cowling looks a bit shorter, so maybe right in the engines Matchbox looked at the photos from epoque, not only on museum machine. Not like with cargo doors... Cheers J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Just wondering if the props available in the Matchbox Heyford are suitable? I’m sure there’s an option for both two blade and four blade props with the four blader being made up of two x two blade props (if that makes sense!). I have both kits, however would need two spare Heyford props to make up the deficiency. Cheers (and great thread).. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 The drawings by Mr Cox (sent here by Chris) show the metal 3-bladers diameter as 12'4" (376 cm). IIRC the basics of descriptive geometry the 4-bladers are a tad smaller - the 86-87% of distance between prop axles, thus either 12 ft (366 cm) or 12'2" (371 cm). Anyway in 1/72 this gives something very close to 51 mm. Cheers Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 59 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said: Just wondering if the props available in the Matchbox Heyford are suitable? I’m sure there’s an option for both two blade and four blade props with the four blader being made up of two x two blade props (if that makes sense!). I have both kits, however would need two spare Heyford props to make up the deficiency. Cheers (and great thread).. Dave No. Wrong pitch. Chris 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said: Just wondering if the props available in the Matchbox Heyford are suitable? Kestrel (as Merlin) turns anti clockwise, whereas Pegasus (as some other Bristols also ) clockwise (if you look from front). But thank you for try Cheers J-W Edited January 16, 2020 by JWM 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, JWM said: Kestrel (as Merlin) turns anti clockwise, whereas Pegasus (as some other Bristols also ) clockwise (if you look from front). I didn’t know that.. thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Clockwise, viewed from the front, was effectively the norm worldwide, with the exception of RR. At some time (late '30s?) RAE ruled that all British engines should be clockwise, which is why the Griffon rotates the other way round to the Merlin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Norm worldwide? Tell that to Continental and Lycoming in the US! Incidentally, and I know that you know this, Graham, the convention is to refer to rotation when looking forward, or "as the pilot sees it". Sorry, that's just one of those things that makes me cringe. Stupendously entertaining thread! I have never seen so many Stranraer photos. bob p.s. I'm not sure that that's the reason for Griffon rotation, but I'd have to go digging... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 On 1/15/2020 at 12:33 PM, Dave Fleming said: If I may go back to the one of the original questions - are the Matchbox engine/cowlings correct for a wartime Stranraer (RAF or RCAF)? 23 hours ago, dogsbody said: Yes. Chris 18 hours ago, Admiral Puff said: I believe that Matchbox based their kit on the Stranny in Hendon. IIRC (although it's a while since I laid eyes on it) it's an ex-Queen Charlotte Airlines aircraft and so has the Wright engines, which means it's not representative of RAF/RCAF aircraft. 🙂 Having looked at pics, I think I'll go with the nacelles at least being representative of the wartime engines. However, no doubt I'll have forgotten this by the time I get round to building my pair (One will be pre-war, the other wartime!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, JWM said: whereas Pegasus (as some other Bristols also ) clockwise (if you look from front). J-W All Bristol radials rotate the same. From the Jupiter up to the Centaurus, they all rotate clockwise when viewed from the front, or in the proper description, counter-clockwise when viewed from the cockpit. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 18 hours ago, JWM said: At least props are definitly different in model and it what I have found in net as Stranraer from Hendon (BTW - I've seen it but I was there but in the 1976 or 1977...) The cowling looks a bit shorter, so maybe right in the engines Matchbox looked at the photos from epoque, not only on museum machine. Not like with cargo doors... Cheers J-W The Hendon Stranraer is a post-war modified civilian aircraft that had been used by Queen Charlotte Airlines and were fitted with Wright R-1820's. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck1945 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Warning, slightly off topic! i have a couple of Stranraer kits and was able to get markings a few years ago for Queen Charlotte Airlines. I was amused reading the in the instructions/info where a competitor referred to the QCA as the Queer Collection of Aircraft 😂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcanicity Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 An excellent topic with some brilliant photos I could have done with last year - and wonderful to see some Stranraer love here on BM! The MB cowlings are an odd hybrid between the P&W installation seen on the Hendon machine and the Pegasus cowlings on RAF /RCAF machines. In profile they are too angular for the latter but not right for the former either. When building the MB kit as a prewar RAF machine last year I thinned and reshaped the cowlings and opened up the front aperture. In doing so I discovered that there are TWO styles of Pegasus cowlings on wartime Stranraers in RCAF service - they differ in how wide the aperture is. Later I will try and find an image of a Canadian machine with one of each fitted which is on my computer somewhere. I also have images of a twin Browning installation which I will share... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Vulcanicity said: The MB cowlings are an odd hybrid between the P&W installation seen on the Hendon machine and the Pegasus cowlings on RAF /RCAF machines. 1 hour ago, dogsbody said: The Hendon Stranraer is a post-war modified civilian aircraft that had been used by Queen Charlotte Airlines and were fitted with Wright R-1820's.Chris Wait a minute - so is the Hendon Stranraer fitted with R-1820 (i.e. Wright) or P&W (e.g. R-1690 or R-1860) engines? How about the collector ring used in all Pegasus (exhaust valves facing forward) installations and totally absent in the US (exhaust valves facing rearwards) installations? Cheers Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcanicity Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Apologies, I meant Wright not P&W! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 53 minutes ago, Vulcanicity said: An excellent topic with some brilliant photos I could have done with last year - and wonderful to see some Stranraer love here on BM! The MB cowlings are an odd hybrid between the P&W installation seen on the Hendon machine and the Pegasus cowlings on RAF /RCAF machines. In profile they are too angular for the latter but not right for the former either. When building the MB kit as a prewar RAF machine last year I thinned and reshaped the cowlings and opened up the front aperture. In doing so I discovered that there are TWO styles of Pegasus cowlings on wartime Stranraers in RCAF service - they differ in how wide the aperture is. Later I will try and find an image of a Canadian machine with one of each fitted which is on my computer somewhere. I also have images of a twin Browning installation which I will share... Here's an image of a Peggy-powered Stranraer with two different cowling: Chris 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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