Revell’s Big Camel

[DMC]

When I saw that CSM sold a 1/28th Clerget I  thought I was home free as far as an engine for an F.1 was concerned.   Not so sure now.  TL & R:  everything on it  is very finely moulded, nuts bolts and so on.  The groves between the cylinder head fins are so fine I can barely make them out.  The cylinders have a slight taper to the crankcase and they should be parallel.   The rocker arms are very fragile and I doubt that I’ll be able to get them placed in their brackets on top of the cylinder heads without loosing most into them to gaping maw of the carpet monster.  The spark plugs are about the size of this exclamation point “!”.  I pinched one off and never saw it again.  There are no pushrods and it is recommended that metal ones be used.   However, placement of the rods will be difficult as there are not holes, as in the 1/48 Clerget, only 1mm stubs to CA the rods to.  That will be extremely difficult.  Not meaning to trash this product as it is skilfully moulded and would look very nice inside the kit cowl .  Just doubt that, with old mans eyes, I’m even capable of doing a creditable job of it.

 

However,  as only three of the cylinder heads will be visible I might get lucky and get three done after a fashion.  We’ll see.

 

Bottom L& R:  a little experimentation on the kit Clerget to Bentley and I’m this far along.  All cylinder now have the bolts, front only, in place.  I added a .040 styrene shim between the crankcase and cam box and tried drilling holes for the pushrods but couldn’t get it done with any degree of accuracy so filled the holes in.  I’ll have to give that task a little more thought.  The induction tubes on the Clerget are directly behind the cylinders and, head on, cannot be seen.  On the Bentley they come in from the side and are visible from the front.  I scratched a thrust box and had just enough scrap rod to make two tubes of the correct diameter.   More rod on the way, however.

 

That’s about it for now.  Plenty of other stuff to do until the rod arrives.

 

Thanks for dropping in

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

[bigbadbadge]

Very nice interior work Dennis and the engine work looking great so far.

I built the lovely Roden 72nd scale Camel 2F1 and was ever so proud, showed it to my son who was 18months old and he promptly squashed it with one swift movement of his arm and clenched fist. I was in so much shock I couldn't move quickly enough to stop him.  I still have the wreckage .  

It was my own stupid fault and now I look back on it kind of funny, he is now 14 and I occasionally remind him of the incident.  I will get my own back when he brings home his first Girlfriend .  The photo album will have to come out!!!

Stay safe

Chris

Edited April 16, 2020 by bigbadbadge

[DMC]

15 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

will get my own back when he brings home his first Girlfriend .  The photo album will have to come out!!!

😆👍

[pheonix]

It seems that as we get older some of the mods that we might have made in the past with little difficulty have become next to impossible today! The modified kit engine looks good - surely you do not have to put all of the details on if only three cylinders will be seen? I am afraid that is what I do these days!

 

P

[rob Lyttle]

Now you're talking, @pheonix!

Some of this stuff is a modelling nightmare 😱

Just because they can make it with modern tech wizardry, it doesn't mean we gotta cry trying to use it! 

 

I expect Dennis will resolve this with some excellent old school plastic sculpting. 

 

PE spark plugs indeed. 

What's the matter with them ‼️❓

😖

[DMC]

9 hours ago, pheonix said:

It seems that as we get older some of the mods that we might have made in the past with little difficulty have become next to impossible today! The modified kit engine looks good - surely you do not have to put all of the details on if only three cylinders will be seen? I am afraid that is what I do these days!

 

P

True enough, Phoenix.  I was diagnosed with an age-related vision ailment a year or so ago.  I thought at the time “well that finishes me” but with the aid of strong magnification and a very bright light I manage ok.   

 

The three cylinders need need only have a little detail on the heads but of course, and as you know, pushrods and head bolts - on the Bentley - can all be seen and so must be made.  I am saving my efforts ‘til last as they will be quite fiddler to get looking right.

 

Only these need have any head detail:

 

9 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

I expect Dennis will resolve this with some excellent old school plastic sculpting. 

Can but only try, Rob.  Thanks for your support.  Incidentally, couldn’t resist opening that big Revell Ventura kit and having a good rummage through the parts.  Really a fine kit and will make a nice Lodestar one of these days. 

 

Stay safe guys

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

 

[DMC]

Okay, with the aid of a couple of convenient size punches and .010 styrene I think I can modify the cylinder heads of the three that will show to look a little better.  Three of the larger discs and two of the smaller stacked pretty near match the kit’s cylinder fins.  Changed the head bolts in front to ones a little thinner.  Pushrods will be pretty thin also.  

 

 

Thanks for dropping in

 

Dennis

[RichieW]

Promising solution Dennis, looks like it's going to work just fine. I totally empathise with the old man eyes problem but you seem to be coping very well from what I can see here. 

[rob Lyttle]

7 hours ago, DMC said:

a nice Lodestar one of these days. 

I'm still pondering my options too 🤔

I'll have another go with the civil Ventura conversion first I think. 

Then take a look at what is involved with making the Lodestar 

[DMC]

2 hours ago, RichieW said:

you seem to be coping very well

Yes, thank you, Richie, I feared the worst but, well. so far....... (shouldn’t tempt Fate)

 

Dennis

43 minutes ago, rob Lyttle said:

Then take a look at what is involved with making the Lodestar 

A lot, I think,.  Cowling, Windows, seats (or not)and much more.  But wouldn’t it look nice. 

 

Dennis 

 

 

[DMC]

Almost finished with kit “Bentley”conversion.  Getting the induction tubes at a reasonably correct angle was a bit fiddly and while not perfect will stand a quick inspection.   I did learn, however, and after starting on the third “do-over”that the BR.1 and BR.2 tube configuration are different.  This example, with the tubes slanted right, would do for a BR.2, and a Snipe.  The Camel 2F.1 used the BR.1 and the base of the tubes angled slightly to the left. This would be from behind looking forwards.

 

Not sure about this but most rotary cowlings had a cable at the rear that secured the cowling to the fuselage (?”. Or at least helped do so.  I used strips of styrene to creat a grove for the “cable” to fit in. Might be a bit large in diameter but after priming and painting should recede somewhat.

 

My biggest problem is going to be getting 18 very thin brass pushrods secured to the cam box without loosing it completely.  Maybe heating a needle and just marking the spot will do it.  I’ll think about that one a bit.

 

Thanks for dropping in.

 

Dennis

 

[pheonix]

Very neat work indeed. Good luck with the push rods...!

 

P

[DMC]

Well, after several wasted hours fiddling around with pushrods and replacement cylinders for the resin Clerget, without much success, I’m putting it aside and venting my frustration on yet another fiddly bit of self induced modelling masochism: the tailskid.  Good photos of the internal skid set-up are rare.  I found one on the John S Shaw Aviation site but the best Camel reference source is Ken Foran’s remarkable brass model.  

 

The photo shows the kit version and mine.  I hadn’t intended to go that far with it but couldn’t help testing myself a little and just got carried away.  

 

Thanks for dropping in

 

Dennis

 

http://www.johnsshawaviation.co.uk/wordpress/sopwith-camel-f1-2/sopwith-camel-reconstruction/sopwith-camel-construction-empennage/

 

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Foran/Camel/index.html

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by DMC
Spelling

[bigbadbadge]

Hi Dennis, hope you are well and staying safe.  Great work on the engine fella it looks lovely, I know what you mean, I have just done all the pushrods on the two Boston MkV engines , used a guillotine in the end and got them done in two evenings, was fiddly though as was the ignition harnesses. 

Your Tail skid looks ace too.

Great work

All the best

Chris

[DMC]

12 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

hope you are well and staying safe

Hi Chris,

 

Yes, as far as I know. Did have to take a ‘necessary” tram trip to the hospital Tuesday as my vision was playing up a bit.  Old Market Square empty, quite spooky actually.  Anyway, pushrods a real bother, don’t know if I’ll be able to use the Clerget.  There’s always something.  Might try scratching a Le Rhonre. Only one pushrod and that’s in the back.  Flashy copper induction tubes and only a few bolt-heads in front.  We’ll see.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

[DMC]

On 5/8/2020 at 8:57 AM, DMC said:

Might try scratching a Le Rhone

Le plastique Le Rhône:

 

And I did try.  I didn’t know very much about the engine.  Most of the material I have on the Camel (a lot) had to do with Clerget Camels.  Indeed most of the kits to be had had Clergets.  Now Roden and WNW have Bentley and Le Rhône equipped issues.  No AM issues in any scale that I know of.  Certainly none in 1/28.  

 

This, below, illustration of a Le Rhône I found very useful.  It is of a 9J, with the induction  tubes behind the cylinders.  The 9C had the tubes in front.  I have yet to see a photo of a Camel with a 9C. 

 

 

This is a photo of a Le Rhône equipped camel.  The cooling fins are very thin and close together so that the cylinder almost looks solid.

 

 

Scratching a engine, rotary or radial, is complicated by the spacing of the cylinders.  There were a couple of time consuming 

do-overs before I managed to get the cylinders spaced reasonably correct.

 

TL: The bits.  The crankcase is made up of .040 discs cemented together and chucked in a drill to finish the circumference.  To get the cylinder spacing right I cut a strip of .010 styrene to fit the circumference and tried different size discs until I got the result I was after. The cylinders are lengths of .5.5mm tubing capped with .020 and .030 discs.  The large disc is for checking the placement of the cylinders.

 

TR: The cam cover (?) is slightly convex so I plunged one out of .020 sheet.

 

BL: not perfect but it’ll have to do. Not sure about how I’ll manage the cooling fins but having to stack about 20 discs per cylinder would have the will to live.  .010 would have been too thick anyway.

 

BR: it fits, with nothing to spare, and much of it hidden.

 

Thanks for dropping in.

 

Suggestions and criticisms welcome.

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marklo]

That is beautiful work. I have two Anzanis and at least one LeRhone to do, I can pretty much see your method from the photos. I take it the crankcase is a molding.

I don’t know if it helps but wasn’t the oberusal used in the Fokker D series and it the Siemens Halske 9 cylinders license built LeRhoneS ?

[DMC]

37 minutes ago, Marklo said:

That is beautiful work

Many thanks, Marklo, very much appreciated. 

 

Well, the Anzani is one on me.  Never heard of it until now.  I wouldn’t want to try one, or a Le Rhône, in 1/48 unless I had laser eyesight.  Which I don’t.

 

The crankcase is is just a few discs of the appropriate size cemented together then tacked on to a spindle and spun in a drill to smooth the edges out. 

 

The Oberusal was apparently an inferior Le Rhône copy, 9J or 9C.   Didn’t Voss offer a crate of beer, or Champagne for a captured Le Rhône to replace the Oberusal in his Dr.1?  

 

Dennis

 

[rob Lyttle]

8 minutes ago, DMC said:

 

Well, the Anzani is one on me.  Never heard of it until now.

Check out Bleriot's cross-channel plane. 

Seems like Anzani were in there right at the start of things 

[Mikey-1980]

looking great @DMC

 

 

[Marklo]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Well, the Anzani is one on me.  Never heard of it until now.  I wouldn’t want to try one, or a Le Rhône, in 1/48 unless I had laser eyesight.  Which I don’t.

It’s a ten cylinder radial as used on the Supermarine PB31 I’m threatening to build. Actually it’s a staggered 2 x 5 If that makes sense. There’s also a wonderful thread on the forums where a 1/72 versions been scratchbuilt so no excuses
 

 

Yes I seem to recall the Voss engine thing too. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Marklo

[DMC]

Well, Marklo, that was certainly worth a read....even if a little humbling.  

 

Dennis

[RichieW]

Brilliant engine Dennis, that is very impressive! Funnily enough I have been pondering how to scratch build an Anzani engine. Will only be a 3 cylinder so much less work than yours. I still find it a daunting prospect though. 

 

Your carved prop is beautiful too!

[pheonix]

First class engine Dennis. Remember that most of it will not be seen (which is a shame), but it still looks very good and is a huge improvement on the kit parts.

 

P

[DMC]

15 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

Check out Bleriot's cross-channel plane

Will do that, Rob. Thanks

14 hours ago, Mikey-1980 said:

looking great @DMC

 

 

Thanks, Mikel

10 hours ago, RichieW said:

Brilliant engine Dennis,

Much appreciated, Richie, and good luck with yours.  A closer look at the “bolt heads” pon the cam cover would reveal a not so brilliant job.  Getting them neatly spaced gave me fits.  After doing them I had a light bulb moment (doh!) and realised that had I used a darker coloured spru I could have made a better job of it. Tempted to scrape them off and try again.

10 hours ago, pheonix said:

First class engine

Thanks, pheoix.  You are right, not much can be seen. Might try the three pushrods that can be, however.

 

Thanks again guys

 

Dennis