DMC Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 The plan was always rid the wings of the rib “tapes” and replace them with ones similar to the tailplane. I wasn’t looking forward to the task of sanding them off as I could see a tedious couple of hours with a crabed hand and nostrils clogged with plastic dust. But while perusing one of Moa’s offerings I saw that he used a hand sander to do the job. I remembered I had a hand but hadn’t seen it in some time. Well, found it in the garage, put a fresh sanding pad on it and set to. The sander is quite heavy to use one handed while holding the wing with the other, and it has tendency to travel but in ten minutes done. What was surprising was the finish, even with 120 grit, very smooth. Polished up very nicely with a finer grit and looks very good. So, nice one @Moa, thanks for posting that pic. I doubt I would have thought of using that brute of a sander. Dennis 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 5 hours ago, DMC said: So, nice one @Moa, thanks for posting that pic. I doubt I would have thought of using that brute of a sander. On my defence, I was using it on a British kit. As you know, they do not understand reason. Nothing less would have done it. 😁 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Made short work those rib tapes then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 6/24/2020 at 9:48 PM, RichieW said: I will keep you posted if Old Warden reopens and if there are any displays on. I believe they have found a way: Drive-in Airshows! https://www.air-shows.org.uk/2019/05/preview-shuttleworth-collection-airshows-2020-old-warden/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 A little detail. The opening in the top wing is a little more InvolvEd than just a rectangular cutout. There’s a leading and trailing edge and thin side panels that drop a little below the rib shape. Don’t think I’ll be trying the corner wires and that teardrop fitting looks like it might be fun. Thanks for dropping in Dennis 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Good job Dennis, you handle all these modifications with great skill and confidence. I've been pushing bits of styrene around all day, scratching my head and achieving nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, RichieW said: Good job Dennis, Thanks, Richie. Seems I can’t leave anything as it comes out of the box. Always messing around, thinking “can I just tweak that a bit. As for you achieving nothing, well, remember, i’ve seen what you can achieve, your lovely triplane. Old Warden looking doable. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 31 minutes ago, DMC said: Thanks, Richie. Seems I can’t leave anything as it comes out of the box. Always messing around, thinking “can I just tweak that a bit. As for you achieving nothing, well, remember, i’ve seen what you can achieve, your lovely triplane. Old Warden looking doable. Dennis Thanks Den but WNW made WW1 shake and bake kits. This old Camel of yours is definitely not one of those! Am popping to Old Warden on Monday. Are there any details you would pictures of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, RichieW said: popping to Old Warden on Monday. Have a pleasant day. Can’t think of anything but i’ll give it some thought. Thanks for the offer, perhaps we could meet up there some day. Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 2 hours ago, DMC said: A little detail. The opening in the top wing Is that opening covered in with anything?? Bendy see-through materials didn't exist in 1917, did they? I guess it's just open for visibility. I fitted some clear styrene on, but I think it's got to come off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 44 minutes ago, rob Lyttle said: Is that opening covered in with anything?? Don’t think so, certainly not glass. Some pilots had enough pull to have it enlarged even more. (As an aside, madam has been watching Octopussy and Bond, Rodger Moore has lept onto a twin tailed, twin engined airplane that’s either a Lockheed or a Beech. Moving too fast to get a fix on it. Two bladed props. Any ideas?) Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 It was a Twin Beech or Beech 18. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinK Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 hour ago, rob Lyttle said: Bendy see-through materials didn't exist in 1917, did they? Celluloid was in use from the 1880s and was used on aircraft from the 1910s onward for clear panels. A.V. Roe used Cellon on the Type F of 1912 for the world's first enclosed cockpit. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, DMC said: It was a Twin Beech or Beech 18. There's quite a few of them still flying. I spent some time looking through a website for Twinbeech owners and flyers. Fascinating stuff. There's one in France flown by AVA, tasty paint detailing and logos and metal shining like a mirror. Definitely on the cards if I can get the graphics sorted! That's in 1.48 scale, NOT another PM kit 😜‼️ Edited July 4, 2020 by rob Lyttle Addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 hour ago, rob Lyttle said: Is that opening covered in with anything? Sure enough, had a good look at the Wylam plans and he indicates plexiglass was used in the opening. Never noticed it before or seen it in a replica. Of course his plans have a few mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinK Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, DMC said: he indicates plexiglass was used in the opening Not in 1917: Plexiglas, along with Perspex and Lucite are acrylic polymers which weren't available until the mid-30s. Much stronger/stiffer than celluloid, this is what made the 'blown' canopies of WWII fighters possible. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 Ok, back to the Camel for bit. I admit I haven’t been particularly eager to get to this part of the build but the longer I put it off the harder it will be to get started. Before I looked into it a little deeper I suppose I had some vague notion that covering, say, a wing on one of these old timers was like slipping it in to a linen sheath and sewing up the open ends. Well not like that on this one. Panels are sewn together with what is called a “balloon” stitch which results in a raised bead like strip along the rib length. This is then covered with a strip of frayed rib tape. I used stretched spru and primer to simulate this effect on the empennage and now had to do the same on the wings, 28 times for each wing, and that’s just the top. I could have used a third hand on this job and experimented on a few ways that I might get it done reasonably quickly and neatly (read straight). This worked for me and after I had established a routine went pretty quickly. Masking tape was my third hand and I stuck the spru down at the leading edge, made sure it was tight along the pencil line and brushed on a little Tamiya extra thin. Not sure if I’ll do the wing bottom this way, might just do the tape effect.I’ll see how the tops go and then decide. Corrections and suggestions always welcome. http://www.johnsshawaviation.co.uk/wordpress/sopwith-camel-f1-2/sopwith-camel-reconstruction/covering/ Thanks for dropping in Dennis 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonix Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Ribs on flying surfaces are always a bit of a pain to get straight and evenly spaced but you seem to have cracked it Dennis. What a good idea to use the masking tape. I use thin strip rather than stretched sprue, but on cost grounds the latter is better! P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Hi Dennis, hope you are keeping well. Great recovery on the fasteners and the rivet decals look great when applied and painted over, I have used them on a loco kit and looked very effective. The sander wow, I was pleasantly surprised when I saw your wing after the sander was employed, might have to try that too. Love the opening in the top wing and your ribbing effects with the stretched sprue, good idea re the masking tape too. Great work fella Stay safe All the best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 You are a master sprue stretcher Dennis, they all look so even. Great work lining everything up so evenly, it looks fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 14 hours ago, pheonix said: Ribs on flying surfaces are always a bit of a pain to get straight and evenly spaced Indeed they are, pheonix, as you know. The ribs on the Camel are not equal distance along the entire wing, at least according to Wylam. Those styrene T-squares are of different widths and were necessary as an aid for tired old eyes in keeping everything in order. The tape was absolutely necessary also. I’ve done ailerons, rudders, etc. but these wide wings are something else altogether. 13 hours ago, bigbadbadge said: hope you are keeping well. Yes, Chris, staying safe thank you. Thanks for your complimentary remarks, very much appreciated. It was Moa’s idea to use a sander on one of his 1/72 builds. Easier I think on a 1/28 size wing. 11 hours ago, RichieW said: You are a master sprue stretcher Thanks, Richie. I tried to get the stretched lengths as close to scale diameter, and all the same, as I could but it’s kind of a hit and miss affair. And then there’s the fumes, melting plastic and Tamiya cement. Risky business. Thanks guys, nice to have you along on this build Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) It’s an ill wind..... After masking off the space between the rib tapes and applying a few coats of Halfords filler primer and then a coat of Humbrol grey, I realised that I had made a mistake. The Camel top wing is a three piece affair. On the F.1 the break is at four spaces out from the centre opening, or five ribs. On the 2F.1 it is three spaces. When they shortened the span on the 2F.1 it was taken from the middle section. This build is an F.1 so naturally I somehow managed to scribe the break of a 2F.1. Fixable without too much but annoying that I made the mistake at all. I cleaned out the break by re-scribbling it and cementing a length of spru in the groove. Then I removed the length of spru from the next rib out and scribed the break in its correct location. The ochre primer on the top wing. The unprimed wing is for the planned 2F.1 build. It has been shortened to a scale 26’11” and the break pencilled in at the correct location. The thing is replacing the spru in the incorrect break grove went so well that I tried it on the bottom of the wing (TL) and ended up doing half of the wing in half the time it took to do it by taping it down and trying to follow the pencil lines. I first use the correct spacer for the outer part (after the break) of the wing (TR). I butt it against one already done, I start from the centre and work outward, and scribe a groove. The spru is placed over the groove, a faint click is felt, and then it’s cemented lightly in place. This time I had used spru that I had measured the diameter of and kept every spru length as close to .33mm dia as I could. The result is much neater and straighter than the wing top. Should have done the top of the bottom wing first. Mistakes would have been less obvious. Thanks for dropping in Dennis Edited July 19, 2020 by DMC Additional information and corrections 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Wow looks great, glad you spotted that before everything is glued together!!! I will have to remember the sprue method when I do mine eventually. Keep up the good work Stay safe and all the best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Amazing job Dennis !! Impressive ribbing at such a big scale !! Congrats !! CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 6 hours ago, bigbadbadge said: Wow looks great Thanks, Chris. Seems as though there’s always something new (for me) to learn. Raised panel lines could be restored this way also. 6 hours ago, corsaircorp said: Amazing job Dennis Thanks cc. Yes, not always easy keeping everything in order. Too much margin for error. Thanks guys. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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