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Exkiwiforces

Colour Scheme for HMS Formidable period early 1942

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I need help to work out what colour goes  where, as the paint diagram shown is in different shades of blue. Also be to confirm the flight deck markings?

F7FC47AA-7143-4E8C-AF82-1F3CA4592C36

 

 

C397FF76-9130-45EC-A2F3-0FF3A06B04C9

 

 

BF3678BD-9C10-43B8-A11D-A97F970EC8DE

 

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Hi,

 

I see you've still got the old RNxxs so that could contribute to the confusion here! The illustrations in Raven's book are fairly good but I accept that some bits are a little artistic with shading so it's hard to tell what's supposed to be B6 and what's MS4A.

 

The old Colourcoats you have though are the Snyder & Short based ones. The now discontinued RN11 B6 is too light and is torquoise in hue. Meanwhile the RN13 was a bit too dark and very green.

 

The replacement NARN34 B6 is a medium blue-grey and NARN32 MS4A is a very light neutral grey.

 

Darkest to lightest:

Black-ish = MS1

Dark Blue = B5

Medium blue-grey = B6

Very light grey = MS4A

 

The scheme is a bit easier to recognise from the Raven book when the colours are adjusted to reality - many of Raven's illustrations were based on watercolours by an ex sailor named Dominie, who most all these ships first hand and had a good eye for colour.

 

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The pattern on the starboard side may need some adjustment:

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205147389

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205144338

 

 

The flight deck certainly wasn't dark grey. It had a complicated multi-colour pattern at the time. I have an excellent clear photograph from directly above.  I assume it is composed of the same colours as the hull, but I have no primary evidence to support this hypothesis, other than comparison of black and white photos.  

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17 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Hi,

 

I see you've still got the old RNxxs so that could contribute to the confusion here! The illustrations in Raven's book are fairly good but I accept that some bits are a little artistic with shading so it's hard to tell what's supposed to be B6 and what's MS4A.

 

The old Colourcoats you have though are the Snyder & Short based ones. The now discontinued RN11 B6 is too light and is torquoise in hue. Meanwhile the RN13 was a bit too dark and very green.

 

The replacement NARN34 B6 is a medium blue-grey and NARN32 MS4A is a very light neutral grey.

 

Darkest to lightest:

Black-ish = MS1

Dark Blue = B5

Medium blue-grey = B6

Very light grey = MS4A

 

The scheme is a bit easier to recognise from the Raven book when the colours are adjusted to reality - many of Raven's illustrations were based on watercolours by an ex sailor named Dominie, who most all these ships first hand and had a good eye for colour.

 

Cheers Jamie,

 

I have to use up all my old stock paints first IAW with the directions of the Ministry of Finance, before I buy any of the new range of paints.

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13 hours ago, iang said:

The pattern on the starboard side may need some adjustment:

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205147389

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205144338

 

 

The flight deck certainly wasn't dark grey. It had a complicated multi-colour pattern at the time. I have an excellent clear photograph from directly above.  I assume it is composed of the same colours as the hull, but I have no primary evidence to support this hypothesis, other than comparison of black and white photos.  

Cheers, Ian

 

Would the flight be similar to the camouflage deck from the 1941? But I’m now  thinking I maybe thinking of a different carrier and I really can’t bothered going over the shed atm, as need to suit up tp MOPP4 as everything wants to me atm ah the joys of the Monsoon finally arriving.

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5 hours ago, Exkiwiforces said:

Cheers Jamie,

 

I have to use up all my old stock paints first IAW with the directions of the Ministry of Finance, before I buy any of the new range of paints.

 

I'm not sure if this helps, but you have quite a stash of the RNxx paints and I like you and want to help...

 

This isn't perfect, but having CIELAB coordinates helps a LOT, so without much time or effort I've made a mix of paints you probably already have:

 

To make a passable B6 using old Colourcoats RNxx paints*:

 

8 drops of RN11 B6

2 drops of corrected (i.e. blue, not grey) RN07 B5 - which I've seen in your photos

1 drop of RN19 anti-fouling red but any red should do the trick of cancelling out RN11's rogue green hue.

 

makes this - there's a little dab of it on the lid of our new NARN34 B6 pointed at using the paint stirring stick:

resized_1397baa8-6e51-474c-882d-97c2fa69

 

It could benefit from just the smallest dot of extra red, but the above was too small a batch size. One extra drop of red would (and indeed did) go way too far towards mauve. If you made maybe 5 times as much as I did then an extra drop of red would get it almost perfect I think.

 

If it's of interest, I'll figure out how to "fix" RN13 to a better rendition of MS4A as well.

 

 

 

 

*n.b. this probably wont work for other brands because it depends on exactly how much pigment each individual brand ended up using to get the first match - i.e. different paints within any given brand have different proportions if pigment to binder (it's within a certain window, but some pigments are very powerful), and the chances of two separate brands ending up with pigment proportions exactly the same is very slim - feel free to try it, but it's unlikely to land in the same place

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10 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

I'm not sure if this helps, but you have quite a stash of the RNxx paints and I like you and want to help...

 

This isn't perfect, but having CIELAB coordinates helps a LOT, so without much time or effort I've made a mix of paints you probably already have:

 

To make a passable B6 using old Colourcoats RNxx paints*:

 

8 drops of RN11 B6

2 drops of corrected (i.e. blue, not grey) RN07 B5 - which I've seen in your photos

1 drop of RN19 anti-fouling red but any red should do the trick of cancelling out RN11's rogue green hue.

 

makes this - there's a little dab of it on the lid of our new NARN34 B6 pointed at using the paint stirring stick:

resized_1397baa8-6e51-474c-882d-97c2fa69

 

It could benefit from just the smallest dot of extra red, but the above was too small a batch size. One extra drop of red would (and indeed did) go way too far towards mauve. If you made maybe 5 times as much as I did then an extra drop of red would get it almost perfect I think.

 

If it's of interest, I'll figure out how to "fix" RN13 to a better rendition of MS4A as well.

 

 

 

 

*n.b. this probably wont work for other brands because it depends on exactly how much pigment each individual brand ended up using to get the first match - i.e. different paints within any given brand have different proportions if pigment to binder (it's within a certain window, but some pigments are very powerful), and the chances of two separate brands ending up with pigment proportions exactly the same is very slim - feel free to try it, but it's unlikely to land in the same place

Jamie,

 

Mate you are a bloody legend with your solution, I only use your product now since I came across it a few yrs ago after starting back up again as  Humbrol and Tamyia are back up paints which hardly get use now expect for the base colours ie Matt back red yellow etc.

 

BZ mate,

 

EXF

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4 hours ago, Exkiwiforces said:

Jamie,

 

Mate you are a bloody legend with your solution, I only use your product now since I came across it a few yrs ago after starting back up again as  Humbrol and Tamyia are back up paints which hardly get use now expect for the base colours ie Matt back red yellow etc.

 

BZ mate,

 

EXF

 

No worries - I'll try to come up with a simple solution for MS4A. It's going to need white - would you prefer to use C03 or RN10?

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On 13/01/2020 at 17:30, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

No worries - I'll try to come up with a simple solution for MS4A. It's going to need white - would you prefer to use C03 or RN10?

Thanks Jamie for your reply and the only white I have is available RN 10. I look forward to your reply and cheers again for your excellent customer service.

 

EXF

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12 minutes ago, Exkiwiforces said:

Thanks Jamie for your reply and the only white I have is available RN 10. I look forward to your reply and cheers again for your excellent customer service.

 

EXF

 

Ok great. The bad news is that to make it light enough, there might not end up being much RN13 in the final MS4A mix, but the good news is that RN Warm White didn't actually exist so RN10 can be put to good use making MS4A instead!

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