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A BIG Rolls-Royce Version II 1-7-2020


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I love these 1:8 Pocher creations, please keep them coming.

 

Meanwhile I keep looking at a slightly sad Mercedes-Benz 500K Sport Roadster on ebay, built but looking a bit shabby and in need of some love.  It's not that expensive but it's collect in person from somewhere 3 hours away.  And where would I put a 25-inch by 9-inch monster?

 

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3 hours ago, johnlambert said:

I love these 1:8 Pocher creations, please keep them coming.

 

And where would I put a 25-inch by 9-inch monster?

 

Same place I do - the dining room if necessary. Also, ejecting excess personnel from your home creates lots of space. :whip:

My Lord, a closet full of the Pocher Underground has been revealed !!!!!! Your wishes are my commands - :devil:

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First Alfa in a Rolls den...

Some ancient (1990's) history from the Cox archive, here is the prototype concept car for what became the Alfa 8C 2300, which we have because Pocher did their version of one. Having done extensive research on this concept before building it, it's best to let David describe it accurately.

'The Flying Star is a famous car; it was the proposal from Touring to get the contract to provide bodies for the new Alfa 8c2300 spider that was about to come out.  This was a 6c 1750GS spider, which at that time was the cat's pajamas when it came to sports racers.'

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Sadly many of the photos are on print film but here is the main work David undertook. He cut down the straight-eight 8c2300 engine to create a six cylinder, with cam drive on the front (not the middle like the 8c) and a front drive blower instead of the side mounted blower of the 8c.  The grill shell is pewter (courtesy of a local jeweler) and the rest is pretty much conventional Pocher stuff.  The Flying Star design--swoopy fenders, monochromatic paint and upholstery and wheels, and the distinctive windshield was a design proposed for anyone who would pay for it.  It ended up on an Isotta Fraschini, as well as the Alfa. Sadly, no engine photos remain of the work done to make it a six cylinder with many differences from the 8C.

2.jpg

Note suicide doors and horizontal vents on the hoods and instruments. Compare to a conventional Touring bodied 8c 2300, and the similarities are obvious.  Note that the fussy overlapping running boards were dropped for the production car, and the stylists added a fin and cowl over the spare wheels, along with a conventional windshield and small instruments and cowled radiator.

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Extravagant lines and voluptuous shapes became an Alfa trademark:

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David sometimes takes his tuba on quiet afternoon drives - here to the Prince Albert Memorial many of you will be familiar with:

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This model is quite famous and has been shown at Meadow Brook Hall, Amelia Island, the Museum of Arts and Sciences at Daytona Beach, and the Orange County (Florida) Historical Museum.  It has appeared in the DuPont Registry, Scale Auto Magazine, and Classic and Sports Car. At the time, virtually no one was modifying Pocher classics. I, for one, was thrilled just to have completed building one in 1979....:frantic::phew:

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On 6/19/2020 at 1:32 AM, Codger said:

Guilty as charged - and I'm hoping your on-going Alfa will become part ! It is extremely rare as these go....

Not much progress there. Doing paint, sanding, gloss, sanding/polishing, and then I need to redo paint as Go through the gloss and paint at the edges. Lot’s of work, rework etc. Pocher fashion I guess.

I will update the thread some day soon.

 

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Lovely Alfa. Again masterfully executed. I like the tuba, nice detail.
Yeah the 6C engine layout differs quite a lot from the 8C.

I have seen a 6C in the Louwman auto museum.

Got them to open up the bonnet (hood if you like). But forgot to take pictures. 🥴

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Historic Alfas...

Once more a plunge into the archives of David Cox for a selection of very advanced Pocher building techniques which have yielded museum quality Alfa prototypes. And although what we've come to call David's 'monsters', these are actually Alfa's monsters of the early thirties, faithfully reproduced after much research.

How about two, twin-engined Alfa sports prototypes? Starting with what is called 'Bimotore A', a tandem-engined single seater:

6.jpg

Except for the cowled-in single seat, it looks much like a standard Pocher Alfa with the exhaust on the wrong side - right?

But let's let David describe what's really here:

'The Alfa Romeo Bimotore A features two 6c 1750 engines placed side-by-side powering a unique twin differential rear axle.  It was Vittorio Jano's clever solution to the problem of the slow development of the 8c 2300 which was supposed to replace the 6c 1750.  This Bimotore  solution worked pretty well.  It won one race, got a lot of press, ran with the speedy competitors and gave Alfisti something to talk about.  The model features working compound steering--each wheel has its own drag link and steering arm from the central-mounted steering box.  The idea being that this would make the car easier to steer and eliminate the need for a tie rod.  This car appeared in 1931, right before the introduction of the 8c 2300 with its straight-eight engine (composed of two 6c engines bolted nose to nose and each missing two cylinders.'

And that looks like this. All from a standard Pocher kit which had been held captive on David's bench until this emerged. Scratchbuilt front axle and complete suspension, widened chassis and all accurate controls in place. Twin driveshafts, transmissions, differentials - everything times 2. This is quite an astounding picture if you study it.

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Here is the rather simplistic office that it all got controlled from:

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As usual I hounded Cox for details, especially the body work because I thought it was masterful brass work. But I was wrong - it's all either stock Pocher shapes or styrene sheet heated and shaped and refined with filler. And this project is well over a decade old. To my knowledge only our friend and now absent member David Potter has worked as much styrene/filler magic on his highly accurate but still-born, 8C Spyder project. Come back David - all is forgiven !

Bimotore A is actually a very handsome piece and there's virtually no evidence that you're looking at a 1/8 scale model:

9.jpg

But wait there's more...

An equally historic Alfa of similar theme, the Bimotore B,  was built by David's friend, Victor Ortiz of Mexico. Like me, Victor was fortunate that Cox shared many of his techniques in this radical construction with a Pocher starting point. Again from David:

'The Bimotore A was followed by the Bimotore B, which featured two 8c 2300 engines, one in front of the driver and one behind. This model has appeared in Scale Auto Enthusiast, DuPont Registry, the Museum of Arts and Sciences at Daytona Beach, Amelia Island and Meadow Brook Hall concours, and at the Orange County (Florida) Historical Society, as well as at the Historical Society that Marshall Buck invited the car to.'

Equally mind-blowing with two, north/south engines, there are sadly, too few photos of these fabulous and famous models. Both models are seen here together in David's shop just before Bimotore B returned to Mexico after its US tour:

10.jpg

I thank David for taxing his memory to allow us to share these amazing Pochers. I close with a fun photo of an early Cox Elegant Coupe (since we're still talking Alfas here) at the Shrine of Our Lady, which should please our current builder of one, Poul:

SHRINE-ALFA-4201-C-4-0.jpg

 

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I knew about the Alfa Bimotore with one engine behind the driver, but I didn't realise there was an earlier version.  Beautiful and inspirational models, thanks for sharing these pictures.

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Fantastic models and yes, a Coupe! Seems pretty much stock, as far as I can see. 
Do you have more pictures of this car?

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1 hour ago, Pouln said:

Fantastic models and yes, a Coupe! Seems pretty much stock, as far as I can see. 
Do you have more pictures of this car?

Sadly no Poul. It was an early customer car so no Chrysler Hemi or other Cox mayhem. . I will hunt around in the hamper here because I think there's another early car.

Be back soon...

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More rare Alfas...

I DID manage to find another very old Cox build of an Elegant Coupe for a client. So old that the photos are poor, of low resolution and some are tiny, but of interest for their rarity. This is now a very expensive kit at auction...

From the portraits taken for the client:

A.jpg

B.jpg

.The customer asked for a green cabin and Cox obliged with green kid leather and pool table felt - a startling and attractive use of materials:
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Even early on Cox was perfecting the use of multiple functioning features - like this mad scientist dashboard. Note connecting rod steering column bezel and wiring for electrical madness:

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He has crafted all manner of trunk accessories over the years. This is beautiful 1/8 scale wood work and stuff no well-heeled Alfa owner could do without; spare wheel knock-off caps:

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A headliner of green leather was fashioned and trimmed in wood veneer:

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Open-grained leather roof coverings were a Cox trademark early on. He preferred the material for its ability to stretch rather than fabrics like gabardine. Having used gabardine on my Rolls, I have to agree:

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Another trademark-in-the-making was outlandish oversized driving lights on the apron. This might have been a Rolls or Bugatti headlight:

I.jpg

And of course, every light in the house was made to illuminate. Secret in plain sight; 3M Finess-it polishing compound:

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The 'simple' and expected parts of the build are all there in their detailed glory:

K.jpg

We're reached the end. I truly hope Dave's work has been an inspiration and not discouraging to those that may like Pocher classics. He has far exceeded what 95% of us can do because he has done these about 80 times over nearly four decades. I think there is worth just being exposed to a body of work like that.

L.jpg

And by the way - Rolls lovers do not despair. Dave continues work on what I promise will be an exceptional 'what-if' version of the marque. And it will be so practical-looking that certainly it might have come from the factory in 1932. And not incredibly difficult to model given a few extra Pocher Rolls parts.

I will hound him mercilessly until he completes it. / C :whip:

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Lovely car. This is what Pocher called a Dinner Jacket. Same as the Coupe Elegant, but without wire wheels.

I see some very nice details, like the opening front window.

Great trunk too and Pocher stock knock-offs in the trunk. He made his own, much better looking, which you can see on the wheels.

The window is food for thought. The actual car did have such a window. Maybe I should try too.

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54 minutes ago, Pouln said:

Lovely car. This is what Pocher called a Dinner Jacket. Same as the Coupe Elegant, but without wire wheels.

I see some very nice details, like the opening front window.

Great trunk too and Pocher stock knock-offs in the trunk. He made his own, much better looking, which you can see on the wheels.

The window is food for thought. The actual car did have such a window. Maybe I should try too.

I should warn you Poul, K & S has stopped making the 3/32" brass square channel which David and I used for our w'screens and side windows. I understand David is trying 1/8" which is still available but the 3/32" was perfect with the .040 Lexan I used for the clear glass.

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21 hours ago, Codger said:

I should warn you Poul, K & S has stopped making the 3/32" brass square channel which David and I used for our w'screens and side windows. I understand David is trying 1/8" which is still available but the 3/32" was perfect with the .040 Lexan I used for the clear glass.

3/32”? Too difficult being used to metric units. 3x25,4/32 = 2.38mm. 1/8” is quite a lot bigger (almost 50%).

I’m going to have a look over here for brass stuff. If not, plastic (PS) might work too.

 

lots of brass channel sizes here: https://www.modelbouwshopnederland.nl/c-3396301/half-u-profiel-3x-33-cm/

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31 minutes ago, Pouln said:

I’m going to have a look over here for brass stuff. If not, plastic (PS) might work too.

 

lots of brass channel sizes here: https://www.modelbouwshopnederland.nl/c-3396301/half-u-profiel-3x-33-cm/

The difficulty I see here is that these are all U-channel brass, not square channel. These have a wider base leg and two equal, smaller vertical legs. The channel Cox and I had use has all three sides equal in dimension. In the metric system you would need a base of 2.38mm assuming the wall thickness is the same as what we've had at .014".

Now this site does have 2.5mm base channel but only 1.5mm high - it would not look scale on the model. Brass is most desirable for the ability to chrome plate it. Nothing looks more real than real chrome. Plastic square channel may exist but then the problem to either, foil it, paint it or possibly vacuum plate it - like kit chrome bits.  But what you choose for actual glass is part of the equation.

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15 minutes ago, Pouln said:

Yes, I see what you mean. 1.5mm is indeed out of scale. 
They do have square channel strips too.

https://www.modelbouwshopnederland.nl/c-3396277/u-profiel-3x-33-cm/. Thickness is in dutch: wanddikte.

Then this might be close to correct. The wall thickness is the only question but buying some and trying seems worthwhile. Is your kit w'screen usable? And do you have a source to get parts chromed??

https://www.modelbouwshopnederland.nl/a-43702769/u-profiel-3x-33-cm/ae7747-10-messing-u-profiel-2-5-x-2-5mm-3-x-33-cm/#description

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The kit window screen is quite thick and very large (which I can modify of course). Need to measure thickness. If too thick, this same shop sells lexan in 1 an 1.5 mm (and more) thickness.

Think I’m going to order some stuff there and see what I can do with it.

Chroming might prove to be an issue, but there is molotow and I also have a plating set that I never tried. This is a good reason to try it. I have more brass stuff for this car that needs to be treated.

 

What’s keeping me from continuing is work on my 1:1 diorama ( aka home). Lots of sanding and painting to do there.

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Back to work...

My original mission here was to recreate my build thread of 2014 in the hopes that it would be helpful and inspiring to prospective Pocher classic builders. Having done that, I added great builds by David Cox, far more prolific and instructional than my work.

But in attempting to help Yorkshire Barry in his thread of a Rolls Ambassador build, I realized there might have been a gap in my build thread which requires more explanation to be helpful. It involves the importance and steps involved in getting the Rolls hood panels to function as the real car, rather than need to be removed to display engine work.

Rather than clutter Barry's thread, I include it here which also keeps this pinned reference work (Thank You Admins!) in a central location. To that end, I removed the glass case and took new detailed photos which I now hope will be of more help.

There are certain 'laws' I found as I got to this stage. You truly want to make the hood panels the last coachwork you perform on your build. The body and all its various modifications and relocations must be in its final form and location. Up to now you should have decided whether to keep things totally Pocher stock or get the side louvers aligned with the cowl's. If you've lowered the body on the chassis, you've lowered the rear hood edges down to level or near level. This will change the three edges of the hood with relation to the grille shell, cowl front edge and fender top apron on the chassis. Material will have to be added or removed to get those edges flush with their mates.

It is vital to begin with a square and plumb grille shell in the horizontal and vertical directions. It must be 90 degrees to the chassis top rail. It is vital to remember that Ellie Thornton's mascot MUST be rotated 90 degrees to the side to let the completed hood rise without interference as seen here. Pocher mercifully allows for this as the mascot screws onto the radiator filler:

A.jpg

The key to getting the top panels to fold is the central hinge. I removed the crap Pocher pin and substituted a .032" music wire pin the full length. But the secret weapon is pin pivots at each end. Seen here is a fabricated tube through which the pin is inserted at the back:

B.jpg

A poor photo but the diagram is clear. A 0-80 brass bolt has the hex removed and in place a brass tube with ID just large enough to fit the .032" pin, is soldered atop the bolt. A location on the cowl is selected, hole drilled in the cowl and the bolt inserted and nut applied from below. This allows the height of the pivot to adjust to get the rear of the hood even with the cowl height. I chromed mine but a dab of paint would suffice:

C.jpg

The other magic happens at the front; the secret is to bend the wire pin 90 degrees so that you insert the pin at the rear and drop it down in the front. There you must drill the plastic radiator to just fit a bit of ally or brass tube which you (when height has been determined) epoxy in place. Now with the central hinge joined to the two top panels, either half can pivot upwards:

D.jpg

A word about joining the hinge to the panels; don't rely on glue or epoxy alone to hold the panels to the hinges. I used 00-90 bolts to through-bolt the hinge flange to the hood panels AND epoxy as well. I rounded the heads off and a dab of Molotow made them chrome-like. The real cars had chrome buttons acting as contact surfaces so hood paint would not be scratched when folded open.

Also of major importance are the side panel hinges which hold them to the top panels and fold onto themselves. I strongly discourage using the Pocher tiny hinges and their 'heat melt' attachment idea. (The same horrid idea they use on the cabin door hinges; I go into that in better detail in the thread using new door posts and changing the hinge orientation. This allow easy removal and replacement for painting.It's in there.) Using two or even three of those per side allows the panel edges to warp- indeed many start out that way. It is vital to get straight edges on the mating panels. I didn't have any but I know I begged both Cox and Marvin for a pair of them and one of those blessed souls came through. They are smaller than the central hinge and that's OK. Although I couldn't through-bolt them like the top, I made stiffeners from styrene, then epoxied them in place with tiny brass rod embedded but not protruding through. I always prefer some mechanical connection and not just a glue joint:

E.jpg

I used a stick to show how much outward movement the panels gain by this work and how sturdy they are:

F.jpg

Because of the styrene stiffeners I used at the hing flanges, the panels do not quite fold flush on themselves as the prototype. But you can see that they stay comfortably in place and allow full display of your hard detail work in the engine compartment.

G.jpg

Worth all this effort? I thought so and am glad I did it. Your ideas may vary. But I'd be glad to answer any questions.

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As ever...the consummate builder and diplomat Mr C...a window into the mind of a true Pocher craftsman...and a wonderful perspective of true passion for a subject at work...bravo!

 

Respect

 

Ron

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1 hour ago, silver911 said:

As ever...the consummate builder and diplomat Mr C...a window into the mind of a true Pocher craftsman...and a wonderful perspective of true passion for a subject at work...bravo!

 

Respect

 

Ron

I have been told that I have 'windows' in my mind - generally called holes in the head. Especially by those that know me.

You however are way too kind....

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Another perspective...

While admiring the great build by Martin (gt6mkiii) of his BMW, I was once again moved by his brilliant skills of making backdrops to showcase his models. The lighting and photo paper backgrounds and bases he creates add greatly to the reality of the scenes he crafts for his cars. He's an artistic master at it.  I showed a photo of my Rolls backdrop hanging on my wall in his thread as a show of appreciation of his work.

But then I got to thinking and ran back through this thread again. I found on page 2 that I had posted blacked-out background portraits of the old crock with mention that I would show outdoor, backdrop photos a bit further in. But I never did.

Now I know you're all suffering from Codger Rolls Overload Syndrome but this is really about the backdrop and making portraits - extending the fun of building the model by some craftwork and photography. This provides enjoyment years after the build is finished - in this case, 2017.

Just a few shots of what the 'what' and then some of the 'how'.

The beauty of large scale is that in outdoor light (sun OR shade) you get realistic reflections and shadows. But you need to fabricate an actual structure because it's impractical to make a photo background large enough to be effective. Once you do, pick a glorious day, set up out doors and then make the sweaty trip carrying 13 pounds of 3 years work up/down steps to the photo site. Plus camera, tripod, table and what seems kitchen sink! This is some of what you get:

3-R.jpg

10-R.jpg

17-R.jpg

8-R.jpg

The inspiration came from a ramshackle garage in the old part of town. Neglected and unused, I knew it would fit the bill immediately. Taking small liberties and altering the proportions slightly to suit my 26" long Rolls, I began work scaling it to 1/8 size. An acre of artist foamboard, staples, glue and some old house paints yielded a cinder block old time garage of the 1930's which became the new home of 'Charles & company, Coachbuilders' :

1.jpg

Windows made of plywood frames and glazed with acetate (someday I'll put in proper Lexan) were based on but not copies of, the original. The 'Ah-Ha' moment came when I added partially drawn green felt shades and found old shop interior scenes on the web. Photocopied in B & W and printed in scale they gave immediate depth and realism when mounted slightly recessed in the windows. Within, the lads are working away on the car-fettling projects:

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3.jpg

Dingy gray window panes courtesy a bit of primer, lend age and ambiance - this is a workplace after all.

A more over-all view gives a better impression of the effect:

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There's a fine line of detailing to avoid distracting from the main subject - your model- but subtle ones add character to your overall portraits:

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By varying lighting conditions, different effects can be had. Here the set up was placed inside my open garage so no direct sunlight but yet plenty to illuminate the subject. Experimenting is fun - if you have a willing accomplice helping you to lug and tote the whole circus everywhere. In this case I had secured help at gunpoint and the promise to vacuum the whole house for a month...

8.jpg

And finally, how it all happens; a 6' table and roll of roofing shingle make an instant tarmac.

9.jpg

There are several beautiful Pocher classics in process which will surely deserve to have formal portraits of themselves taken for posterity. I feel if one were skilled to complete  such a replica, then the necessary skills to build a showplace for it are much easier - and almost as important as the model itself. Smaller-scale builds can enjoy this benefit too - it's a matter of scaling to enhance the model.  Plus it extends the building fun. And it's hugely satisfying...:phew:

Edited by Codger
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