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A BIG Rolls-Royce Version II 1-7-2020


Codger

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On 6/16/2021 at 7:03 AM, Major_Error said:

Wonderfull!

The final car must be quite heavy! All this metal parts.

 

8- )

You are right Major. The kit has steel frame rails to start with. My Rolls weighs 13 pounds with just plastic rails! :phew:

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1 hour ago, Pouln said:

Wow, I think I need to find another hobby. No end to the techniques he is using. 

No - don't do that! We want and need you here in Pocherland! But the key to me bringing Dave's genius here is for others to try to employ those methods. And to counter the idea that an accurate classic can be built right out of the Pocher box. B)

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Significant detail explained...

You just saw the cowl trim created and now you see how it all comes together. In the fifth photo here you saw the cowl split down the center and the body spread apart (maybe 1/4"?) to accommodate the engine set back. This is the stuff of nightmares for first-time Pocher builders. But many gussets and fillers later it looks factory fresh. Then David fashioned the aluminum base trim seen above. I think it's .015" thick.

Now come the Modelmotorcars windshield posts and spotlight/side mirrors. A stylish addition mimicking the original.

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At this point I asked David if this will all be chromed and he gave a very interesting answer. This goes back to the days at MMC when partners with Marvin and the extensive study they gave the subject before creating the posts. I'll present his narrative here to better explain:

This is polished aluminum.  In the past we have tried this in brass and had it chromed, but that is fraught with troubles.  The chroming process heats the metal, and because it was so thin (0.015”),  it changed the radii at the ends , creating a gap between the cowl and the trim.  Subsequently we came to believe the trim panel was actually part of the aluminum body and merely polished.  Later, we saw one up close and decided it was chromed brass.  Finally, I tried Bare Metal Foil over a styrene panel, which worked great, fooled everyone, but gave me sleepless nights worrying about it being damaged during shipping.  For what is surely my last attempt, I decided to go for polished aluminum.

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Making this combination of materials feasible is the fact that the posts come with threaded posts cast onto the uprights. He and Marvin designed them this way  Holes are drilled through the trim piece and the body making a precise and solid, removable attachment. Remember a hallmark of Cox cars is mechanical fasteners, not glue. Valuable tips for advanced builds.

The result is a highly visible styling element of the original and a treat for the eye.

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More as I get it....:book:

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  • 3 weeks later...
2 hours ago, lespaul said:

Hi Bud,

would be nice to get some upgraded parts from MM, Pity they dont respond with enquiries???

Most unusual. I found this notice on their site just now:

Shipments of new orders may experience temporary delays. You may continue to browse and place orders on our site, but please be advised that it may take longer than usual to ship your order. We sincerely appreciate your patience. Thank you for continuing to support our small business in these challenging times!

However that does not explain no response to inquiries.

I will contact Mr Cox to learn if he has any information.

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Cox has no idea for lack of response - sorry for your disappointment.

May I ask which classic you're building?

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This just in...

A tiny update from David. He informs me he has been working steadily to perfect all bodywork with continuous priming and sanding. This will be a happy client....:)

But in between sessions, he finished to perfection the rumble seat upholstery. Sadly only the top bolster and seat back will show in the car. But is this not exquisite?? :phew:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Inching up...

David tells me he has completed the process of perfecting all the bodywork for final color. He has fit together most of the bits for an overall look in one color - high build primer. It has been a time - consuming process  of filler, spray primer, sand and repeat. Many times with many grit changes. The cowl/firewall assembly will be removed and that horizontal join will be addressed.

The startling effect of the lipstick red upholstery  is evident and a white or off-white color would be amazing. However, I believe the client has chosen a silver. It will not disappoint. I believe this one will have blackwall tires, somewhat unusual these days on frequently over-restored cars.

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Best way to avoid handling trouble is to store completed items in protective boxes or bins:

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Impossible to tell that's a brass hood top with plastic sides:

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Remember the front apron is copper and the big and little hatches are plastic:

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Look back and remember that this door has a vertical, diagonal slice and splice in it where it was radically shortened to become a '540' door. Remember that there will be delicate and elegant real chrome trim zooming over the curves and flanks in the opulent MB manner. Holes are for pinning the trim and door handle.

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And for us, an 'incentive' view possibly from the MB museum, of what David has been after. These proportions do not come out of the Pocher box this way. More as soon as Florida weather conditions allow...

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As much...if not more...pre-paint prep than the 1:1 by the looks of it.

I get that the customer gets what he commissions but...silver!...that interior will fade (lose it's luminosity) with all that colour surrounding it...a shame really.

Also...so much chrome trim will not have the strong impact it would have with another shade of body colour.

No doubt it will be stunning...just not a colour I would have chosen...so much 'lost in translation'...so to speak.

 

Look forward to next chapter Mr C :)

 

Ron

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1 hour ago, silver911 said:

I get that the customer gets what he commissions but...silver!...that interior will fade (lose it's luminosity) with all that colour surrounding it...a shame really.

Also...so much chrome trim will not have the strong impact it would have with another shade of body colour.

No doubt it will be stunning...just not a colour I would have chosen...so much 'lost in translation'...so to speak.

 

Not my first choice either Ron. (Actually black would have been :devil: ) but I caution that was early talk months ago that I got about the silver. Not positive it's the final decision.

But I certainly agree  the chrome trim will not be shown to best advantage on silver. And if I had spent a lifetime crafting it as well as Cox, I'd want it to stand out. But I think the leather will hold it's own for attention.

Time will tell but I'm pretty sure any of us would like it on our shelves.

 

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Hi Mr C,

 

What are brilliant thread ! I'm attentively going through this treasure trove and taking notes.

 

There's so much to see and learn here.

 

Thank you very much for sharing.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

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1 hour ago, Pascal said:

What are brilliant thread ! I'm attentively going through this treasure trove and taking notes.

 

There's so much to see and learn here.

 

Thank you very much for sharing.

 

 

A rare treat to have you but I fear nothing here goes 220MPH like the cars you are most expert on! :weep:

And I know you need not take notes because this was childs-play compared to some of the projects you've accomplished.

But sincere thanks for joining in. If there's something(s) I should have done better, don't hesitate to call it out. Even though my building is over, I love learning. And presenting Cox's fine work is a gift to any who pay attention.

I will continue to show his skills and wealth of Pocher advice.

C

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You give me too much credit Mr C,

 

I've never worked with leather, nor have I ever respoked wire wheels.

 

I have a 1/12 scale diecast Revell Ferrari 250 GTO in the stash that needs leather work and the Borrani wire wheels need to be respoked, this thread has a ton of tips & tricks how to do that.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

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Benz Bonus !!

Being a simple Rolls-Royce boffin, I confess to having been baffled at the size and scope of Benz 500 sport cars and Pocher's compromised attempts to replicate them. Sadly, no one Pocher version matches exactly any one prototype car. 

In recent conversation with Mr Cox I lamented this very situation. I was stunned to get in return this image, never before seen by me,  (I was deep in work on the Rolls) and probably no one else beyond his own web site:

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Immediately, filled with questions, I barraged him for more information. Cox, being a 'student of the game', has a huge library of reference BOOKS, by expert-in-field authors on each marque in Pocher's classic line. Decades worth of collection and study.

So I asked, is this a Spezial? Cabriolet? Roadster? I'm confused by the clues; split windscreen, roll down windows, top stack, long doors, rear seat?

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I'll let David's words describe what we have here:

"First of the Pocher Mercs, this model was a mystery for just the reasons you mention.  Most cabriolets (heavily padded folding tops, roll-up door windows) had flat windshields, and some had rear quarter windows behind the door windows.  The Pocher literature mentions two prototypes with 7 liter engines.  Long story shorter, Melin  found the prototype for a Spezial Cabriolet A (four-seater) which perfectly matches the Pocher model.  The prototype was in the collection of Bernie Ecclestone, the F-1 czar, and was a one-off car with the standard 5 liter engine.  It has since been sold at auction, and is described as a cabriolet with Spezial Roadster details— dash, windshield, door hardware— and features long doors and a long tail.  Serial number 130859.

 My model differs from the prototype by having a cover over the spare wheel, black wire wheels, and black leather. The idea was to build a model of the “other” Spezial Cabriolet."

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Always chafing at having to build an 'exact' model, David incorporated some of his touches (note the automatic pistol in the door pocket) on the customer's behalf. Black leather, black wire wheels and a spare cover on the extended deck are three.

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Built in 2018, the model carries a host of 'normal' Cox operating features:

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The major differences from the 'Ecclestone' car are cosmetic - it had tan leather, top and wheels, open spare and white walls.

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This is the definitive, exact version I would have loved to build. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. Having less chrome trim than a full Spezial Roadster I find it clean, elegant and tasteful. My thanks to David for sharing with us. Questions and opinions always welcomed but feast in these beautiful lines:

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It's a nice piece...however...and feel free to lambaste me but...those wheels look a shade too small to my eyes!

 

None the less...I do like the almost 'stealth' colour scheme Mr C :)

 

Ron

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26 minutes ago, silver911 said:

It's a nice piece...however...and feel free to lambaste me but...those wheels look a shade too small to my eyes!

 

None the less...I do like the almost 'stealth' colour scheme Mr C :)

 

Ron

Yes I find it most tasteful.

No shade on your wheel opinion, they probably were due to Benz design staff. I know my RR wheels were in perfect scale to prototype diameter so imagine Pocher got these right too.

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2 hours ago, Codger said:

Yes I find it most tasteful.

No shade on your wheel opinion, they probably were due to Benz design staff. I know my RR wheels were in perfect scale to prototype diameter so imagine Pocher got these right too.

Speaking of which..........

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???? Will David be angry??? :devil:

 

 

 

 

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That's not a model, it's a work of art.

 

I wonder how Mr Cox made the blinkers in front of the doors movable and how he managed to put a tiny light in them.

 

Does it have an engine ? Or is the space used for the wiring and batteries ?

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

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Posted (edited)
On 7/27/2021 at 5:41 PM, Pascal said:

That's not a model, it's a work of art.

 

I wonder how Mr Cox made the blinkers in front of the doors movable and how he managed to put a tiny light in them.

 

Does it have an engine ? Or is the space used for the wiring and batteries ?

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

The directional blinkers are manual and I believe (not certain) they have a fiber optic wire. It absolutely has full engine detail as do all his builds. His usual hiding place for batteries are under rear seats or under trunk/rumble seat/spare wheels. He also usually wires to switches on a gear or brake lever or pedal as well to operate the various lights.  :mental::)

Edited by Codger
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En LIGHTNING...

As further response to Pascal's questions, David has sent the latest tid-bits he has accomplished in this labor-intensive build. I'll try to de-code how he accomplishes them.

After 3 decades of trial/error and success this is how most of his models get their 'shining' features.

Here's the back of the Benz instrument panel and the wire maze concealed behind it. Only thing he neglected to tell me is where the on/off switch is for the dash. ---Actually, he tells me very little because he is an absent-minded professor. Usually 10 questions from me get some sort of answer:

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The desired result. Actually, that key, bottom center of panel may be the switch...

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More gems from the Cox bench; the door handles and latches. Seen here; black objects at top are Pocher kit  inside door latches. Next and at bottom are sections of Pocher kit engine camshafts including one cam lobe. In between lie MMC door handles and estuchions (which the handle shafts rotate in).

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Sit tight - it gets crazier; David then removes one cam lobe from its shaft, drills and taps it for 00-90. He then removes the shaft of the MMC handle, drills THAT for 00-90,threads in the shaft,  then a touch of solder locks each in position. The HARD part is orienting each element so that 90 degrees of rotation of the cam, slides the black latch fore and aft in its door slot. Phew...:phew:

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Full disclosure; this is the exact same system and even parts that I used on Rolls, with David's guidance and 2 soldered cam/handle units. Being a mite older then I, he has my undying respect for even being able to handle such tiny bits with poor sight and wobbly fingers - which put me out of action. Here's inside look at mine:

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OK some mock-ups to whet the appetite. Handle and door trim strip in place. Safe way to store delicate chrome trim is seen taped on cardboard atop door:

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There are 8 pieces of brass chromed trim needed for the hood sides. Enough to cause frequent napping...

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To any who question why the pace of this build is so drawn out, I hope these examples reveal the reasons. Imagine the impatience of the anxious client........:whip:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ah the door latch. Thank you, Chas, for sharing that. I was working some time ago on a similar system that should move using a ratchet. It didn’t work and I put it aside then. It should be a fairly simple mod to use this system.

 

Great to see what David accomplishes here. Hope to see more of it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

A jog in the road...

Gents, a long-delayed update but not because Cox has been negligent. Indeed he has sent these labor intense shots but I have been unable to interrogate him about details. It seems I've hit some bodily speed bumps which are being navigated now. In a short while I will make a post in the Discussion area explaining my truancy.

I do know that parts of the car have gotten final silver and he does continue work feverishly. However his ways are to put swarms of angels on the head of the pin and that is why so long. The cowl lights and w'shield posts are a labor intensive example. Try to remember this thing was was sliced, spread and hacked like a spring capon by looking back on the 102 photos here. With more to go.

I will post what I have without comment but the sharper of you will find wealth of info.

I will continue to flog David for more when my flogger is full strength. However I am in discussion with a pinnacle friend on forum who may help conclude the build if I get Cox on the same page.

Feel free to praise Cox's work or ask about it./Codger

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