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A BIG Rolls-Royce Version II 1-7-2020


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Lovely models. Thanks for sharing.

 

Of course there is interest, dear Chas. Bring it on. One can never have enough of the work on Pocher models, especially if it is David’s work.

 

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A look in the Vault...

Wanna see over $50 thousand USD of Pochers in one place?? This is the Cox personal stable of Rolls-Royces. He spent the day off the Benz build by sprucing these up.

 

I hope I'm in his will...:worthy:

IMG-1109.jpg

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A thanks ...

To all of you who wrote or  sent 'Likes' on the posting of other models besides Rolls. As well as the popular posting of the Cox personal Rolls collection. Unseen, the other half of that shelf contains his own FIAT F-2, Bugattis and Alfas and maybe the red 540 if I remember correctly.

He is underweigh with a customer Benz right now and although I don't have all the build progress pix, I should be able to wrestle some finished portraits when done and maybe some comments from him of the Benz kits in general.

Stay tuned...:devil:

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6 hours ago, Pouln said:

That would be great, Chas.

Just had a bit of update but as usual with Cox, there's more than meets the eye. Some parts are being moved around but I don't have all the details yet. It is NOT a stock Benz kit build. But I doubt it will have artillery in it...:phew:

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Pocher Benz by Dave Cox...

As promised, here is the beginning of a different Pocher classic than the Rolls Royce-heavy content previously.

Pocher had created a baffling array of these Benz models of the '30's  and I am far less familiar with them than my Rolls. So I asked David some basic questions to clarify for all of us - he would know. In several places I reprint what he wrote me verbatim so as not to cause error.

Here is a presentation of the original cars and as you'll see, MB produced many variations on this car's theme:

"The 500k was a range of Mercedes straight eight cars.  The K stood for kompressor or supercharged.  Among the body styles were cabriolets ( A,B,C, D designations indicated the configuration of side windows. Cabriolet A had a single door window; Cabriolet B had a door window and a small window behind it; C had four doors, so the window behind the front door was a door window; cabriolet D had four doors plus a quarter window behind the rear door.). There were two roadsters offered, one on a short chassis (Kurtz) and one on a long chassis. The long chassis had a set-back radiator and engine and exposed side pipes. These were called Spezial roadsters because they were, and they first became available in 1935 with 5 liter engines..  Early cars had shorter tails, later cars had extended tails to accommodate spare wheels in the bodywork instead of spare wheels mounted a behind the body."

"There were two Mercedes engine series, the 500 and the 540, both designating displacement, and unfortunately there is some overlap.  There are some long-tail 500’s (a handful) but most are 540’s and were available in  late 1936.  As far as I know, there were no short tail 540s. 500 =5.0 liters.  540=5.4 liters.  K= kompressor. (Not to be confused with “Kurtz” which means short wheelbase).  The three rumble seat cars have 500 engines but are listed erroneously as 540K’s.  Nor are they roadsters because they have roll-up windows in the doors.  The only ‘fact’ is the ‘rumble seat’ designation."

Oh, oh -I'm  baffled already; setback engine, short tailed, long tailed, with windows, without, 5 liter, 5.4, long chassis, short body and engines that could be spread across several of them. :phew:

OK but which of the Pocher kits are which and what about their quality? They came after Rolls and are they better?

"The prototype cabriolet A that Pocher represented with the K 74 is a one-off cabriolet A with Spezial roadster details (leather covered dashboard, V’ed windshield, exposed exhaust).  Mercedes listed this car as a Spezial Cabriolet, but the designation is hand written on the build sheet and may be simply “spezial”.  The engine for this car is not set back, but the V’ed windshield appears to be unique for cabriolets."

K-74  Cabriolet four seats (black with top); K-80 red plastic version

K-82-90 Roadster, Rumble Seat Roadster, white, red, maroon two seats no top

K-91  'true roadster' plastic wheels, tan and brown, fewer metal pieces, famously sold for $99 by Model Expo.

"K-91 is best, but doesn’t come with the metal spoke wire wheels, and the cabriolet, while accurate, has all the shortcomings of the rumble seat cars. Metal sub-frame, wonky door fit, some lovely castings, some disgraceful castings, diabolical wire wheels, rear of body is totally unsupported .

I am thinking a C+ is about right, with a bit added for the wonderful suspensions. Take some off for the old-timey tin windshield frame and Dufus profile, add a bit for the wonderful subject and nice dashboard.  Call it a B-."  :wall: He ought to know right?

THIS model: "The kit I am using is definitely a K-90, the True Roadster is a K-91." The version he is building is  a 540K Rumble-seat Roadster.

OK lads, class is over. But there could be a snap quiz at any time so be prepared.:whip:

But I promise there will be pictures of work in progress (some) and surely final pretty stuff. I have only a few right now at the molecular level but more will come. This one is definitely getting scads of chrome (real) trim and many of the standard Cox features. It has already had an engine set back, body shortening and other heinous acts performed on it and I have some of that.

More to come...:devil:

 

 

Edited by Codger
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  • 2 weeks later...

Here we go...

Far from a step-by-step but more than enough info for prospective builders to see clearly what's involved. I am at a disadvantage explaining some things because I never built one of these, only the Rolls and Alfa. but I'll let Dave start off:

'I am using a K-90 Rumble Seat Mercedes-Benz to build a 500K long tail Spezial Roadster.  Because the kit comes with an accurate 500 engine (which is correct for the earlier roadster (K-91) and K-74 cabriolet), the heavy lifting is just relocating the engine and radiator and shortening the body to accommodate the set-back engine. '

I have learned that David had previously built this car for his customer and now the customer returned it to get the above named changes. Plus big additions like all the real chrome trim on these lavish cars - which you will see.

The beginning of the engine set back:

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Note the rear engine mount is now in a wider part of the frame:

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David solves this easily with a filler block as the frame and crossmember are metal:

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The engine gets all the usual delicious Cox upgrades and styrene sheet is used to make the cowl deeper. Remember the body is shortened and set back:

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Here the body has been cut apart at the w'screen area and a splice inserted to make it wider. Also the body length was shortened with cuts at the door area of the rocker panels. David had some bad words for Pocher at this point. You can see the the forward body 'legs' protruding from the main body are floating - they aren't attached to the frame. Also Pocher provides NO way to attach the body rear to the chassis - it too floats. He solves that with about a 1" block of wood to tie both together:
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A mock-up with the fenders and deck as David received them. The horrible gap in the front apron will be filled with a hand-formed copper sheet - because it's softer than brass.

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The doors had been previously cut with a diagonal slice down their center. Note the top edge at the dash; it will get a filler piece:

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Here the body gets sheet reinforcement under the weak door area:

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That's a start for us but work has continued for David. New hood top (brass)  and side panels need be made because the vents and exhaust pipes are further back. I'm getting detailed photos of how he fabricates the numerous chrome-on-brass trim strips. I'm told a really hard job is the headlight spreader bar. A MMC chrome windshield will be coming. This will be an expensive baby on the shelf.

More soon...

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As always it is a joy to see a master at work on a model of a truly stunning motorcar.  It's a tribute to David Cox's craftsmanship that I'd be happy to display one of the part-complete mock-ups (I particularly like the version with the grey primer body and no mudguards).

 

Maybe it's because I am, at heart, an engineer and it's delightful to see an engine so beautifully presented whilst also contemplating the real 500/540K's front suspension (on the real car this featured designed in longitudinal compliance, decades ahead of anyone else).  Worth noting that the same principles were applied to the suspension of the W163 racing cars, the touring car of today inspiring the racing car of tomorrow in reverse of the common belief that racing improves the breed.

 

I think it's also a tribute to the design of the 500/540K that it manages to look right even in a part assembled state.

 

Thanks for sharing.

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10 hours ago, johnlambert said:

As always it is a joy to see a master at work on a model of a truly stunning motorcar.  It's a tribute to David Cox's craftsmanship that I'd be happy to display one of the part-complete mock-ups (I particularly like the version with the grey primer body and no mudguards).

Thanks for sharing.

And thanks to you John for taking time to write some thoughts on the work. I had always thought that Pocher Benz kits were superior to RR, FIAT and Alfas because they came after. But here Cox reveals they had some pretty poor engineering as models. Of course he has surmounted all the negative issues which is why I try to present his work.

I know there will be 'pretty' pix near the end of assembly.

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2 hours ago, Codger said:

I know there will be 'pretty' pix near the end of assembly.

Thanks for posting, Chas. I’m pretty sure too, judged from what we have seen before.

Pretty rough now, though.

Actually weird that Pocher designed the kit such that both front and rear of the body are floating.

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3 hours ago, Pouln said:

Actually weird that Pocher designed the kit such that both front and rear of the body are floating.

Sad that they learned how to do weird things on the earlier cars. Like the Rolls cowl to body sides joins.

It seems my country men didn't learn from earlier mistakes. Like the body tooling guys didn't compare notes with the chassis guys. :mental:  But they did get many areas artfully beautiful.

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  • 2 weeks later...

From what I have read here and there the Pocher Mercedes cars had as many flaws as the others, taking major surgery to get things ‘right’.

 

Mr Cox sure spends some time to turn the model into something rather different, to fit his and/or his client’s wishes and vision. Looks fabulous.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said:

From what I have read here and there the Pocher Mercedes cars had as many flaws as the others, taking major surgery to get things ‘right’.

 

Mr Cox sure spends some time to turn the model into something rather different, to fit his and/or his client’s wishes and vision. Looks fabulous.

 

 

I'll pass on your compliments Roy. Yes he does. I now have some pix of the insanity he does on these making 23 (I think) of the fender and running board chrome strips. Exquisite fine thin brass shapes that get chromed. I will try to outline the additional trouble spots he reveals in the assembly phase but he has done a ton of work on the trim, brass hood tops and custom made hood side vents and pipes. I think just to get it overwith....:phew:

More soon...

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Work continues...

I confess I'm having difficulty making a cohesive build story for you to follow because David sends lot of photos but scant descriptions of the work. He also (as many of us do) moves to different areas of the build at various times. There are NO instruction sheets for this type advanced work.

I'll start with the hood sides and nose area because that is where the the change to a Spezial Roadster is very obvious and very structural.

Here new longer side panels are fashioned with elongated vents due to the engine set back. The exhausts exit in different places now. At top is a stock panel.

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Part of the off-sequence work is the fashioning of brass trim around the vents. Note that Cox does not make brass parts and glue them to the car. Instead he drills each piece and inserts mounting 'pins' of minute brass rod. Then drills the body panel - getting exact locations is black magic to me. Then each parts is filed, polished and final chrome plated in batches. Large 'fin' in center is rear deck trim.

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A trim strip for the hood side edge:

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Speaking of the hood, .015" brass sheet is the choice material which he bends on a brake and test fits repeatedly:

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A very crafty trick seen here for the first time is how David has perfectly folding hood top panels. He taught me this and my Rolls benefited. An 0-80 or 00-90 bolt has a brass tube soldered (horizontally) to the hex on what will be the back end of the hood. A similar operation is done for the front. The brass tubes must be just large enough to accept the pin of the piano hinge. Then holes are drilled in upper radiator and top of the cowl in the correct locations. The bolts are threaded in when the locations are correct and adjustable up or down to level the hood tops. A nut can be used under the body to hold the adjustment. I differed slightly on my Rolls by making the front pivot vertical with the hood pin bent 90 degrees to enter it. This made it easy to slide in the rear pivot and drop in the front - for easy removal:

15.jpg

:phew: - Glad that's over.

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Clearly seen here is that the radiator is now well behind the front wheel centerline. Much different than the stock kit:

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I think that now David is showing us that a new wider headlight bar needs to be fashioned. The mock-ups are endless:

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As preview to whats coming, here is the signature feature of a Cox Benz model; beautiful brass/chrome body trim. He has an amazing touch for cutting and bending sheet stock in graceful, tapered forms. All the molded on body trim has been sanded off. These must also curve around the bulges in fenders and body. All get pinned in place.

19.jpg

This client will be very happy. Indeed, this is the fourth or fifth Pocher classic he has commissioned from David.

I'll be back with more after a long nap..

C

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That is real craftmanship you are showing us. Those trims are fantastic. I remember your description of the fitting of the hood. Think the way you did it is indeed easier when the time comes to put the hood in place (and easier to take it out again (and again and....)

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1 hour ago, Pouln said:

That is real craftmanship you are showing us. Those trims are fantastic.

Yes they are Poul. Wait until I bring you finished paint; they are staggering in the impact they make on these somewhat over-decorated icons. But Lord, there is nothing like real chrome trim on these. Because there is so much of it, it detracts from the model without them.

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1 hour ago, silver911 said:

To be fair to you Mr C...those pictures and what written info you supply...give us a window onto Cox's world...a whole different universe to most of us...insanity of the best kind :)

 

Ron

If you politely mean Cox is a Madman, you're correct. He has pushed Pocher classics very far, almost to the doorstep of scratch building. He's done nearly 90 I'm told - when most of us are thrilled to accomplish one or two - much less scramble them like eggs to make a feast.

Thanks to you loyal lads for following along.

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@Codger, thanks for posting all of this info.  I haven't built a Pocher kit, but do like to try and go beyond what's in the box on builds.   So, Pocher or not, it's the process! not only impressive in it's own right, but inspiring, and helpful - along the lines of "oh...that's how you do it!"  

 

Cheers

Nick

 

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On 2/19/2021 at 3:20 PM, Stickframe said:

@Codger, thanks for posting all of this info.  I haven't built a Pocher kit, but do like to try and go beyond what's in the box on builds.   So, Pocher or not, it's the process! not only impressive in it's own right, but inspiring, and helpful - along the lines of "oh...that's how you do it!"  

 

Thanks Nick. Those two words have been my reason to present this whole shootin match. I know my work and Cox's won't cause a run on Pocher kits but so much of what's presented applies to most all scale car models.

Thanks for sending a few words and I hope you're a regular viewer.

C

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Nail biting time...

Who said this was a relaxing hobby?? Picking up right where we left off, Mr Cox continues his magic with brass trim. But he consumed many cookies between tiny solderings to steady the nerves.

Fender trim for the other side must match the first:

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Imagine drilling dozens of holes, snipping dozens of tiny wires, then silver soldering all together at correct angles...OH and polishing each within an inch of its life ! If the plating shop loses any of these, it's do it all over again.

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Just a bit easier, the bigger bits get fabricated:

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And here is where those will go - the rumble seat:

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Note the angles of the trim edges for easy opening and closing:

25.jpg

This mock up shows how elegant the lines get with the addition of this type trim. Chrome handles will be added to each side of the rumble lid.

26.jpg

Soon to come, more metal work but of a different type than the brass seen here.

More snaps as soon as I get them. But we must let Dave's nerves calm down a bit...:phew:

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