Question about torque linkages on Frank Carey's Spitfire VIII

[Madmaks]

Greetings. I am getting very close to finishing my version of Frank Carey's Spitfire VIII using the box art version on the AZ Model kit. I found one reference picture as well but I am not sure if his Spitfire Mk VIII - JG560 that was based out of Armada Road in India in 1944, had Oleo torque linkages on the undercarriage. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Attached below are the box art, the build so far and the reference picture I found:

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Madmaks

[gingerbob]

Surprisingly difficult to say.  When I "blowed up" the image, I thought I saw a kink in the leading edge of the oleo cover, which would suggest forward-link leg, but that kink seemed to come too far up.  The serial number also seemed dangerously early for that type.  Upon further looking and consideration, I think it most likely that it had the aft-link style.  If you find yourself thinking "What aft-link style?" you're not alone, and frankly I think you could just ignore it, or stick a little scissors between the wheel and the back portion of the cover, where it can hardly be seen even if you are trying.

 

bob

[Madmaks]

6 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Surprisingly difficult to say.  When I "blowed up" the image, I thought I saw a kink in the leading edge of the oleo cover, which would suggest forward-link leg, but that kink seemed to come too far up.  The serial number also seemed dangerously early for that type.  Upon further looking and consideration, I think it most likely that it had the aft-link style.  If you find yourself thinking "What aft-link style?" you're not alone, and frankly I think you could just ignore it, or stick a little scissors between the wheel and the back portion of the cover, where it can hardly be seen even if you are trying.

 

bob

Thanks Bob, I keep looking at the picture and am increasingly inclined to leaveing it off as well.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Madmaks

[72modeler]

Madmaks,

 

I think Mk VIII's had the oleo scissors- see the attached video clip of a Mk XVI that clearly shows what they look like as well as how they fit within the confines of the fairing door when the weight is off of the strut; pretty sure when on the ground and under weight, they would probably extend past the edge of the fairing door. I bet @Graham Boak could be more informative on the subject. BTW, your VIII is looking great!

Mike

 

 

Here's a link to photos of a M k IX with the torque links from two angles. I hope this is helpful.

 

https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/26280-more-tamiya-spit-pics/page/2/

 

 

[Madmaks]

40 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Madmaks,

 

I think Mk VIII's had the oleo scissors- see the attached video clip of a Mk XVI that clearly shows what they look like as well as how they fit within the confines of the fairing door when the weight is off of the strut; pretty sure when on the ground and under weight, they would probably extend past the edge of the fairing door. I bet @Graham Boak could be more informative on the subject. BTW, your VIII is looking great!

Mike

 

 

 

Mike, this is very helpful and hopefully Graham would chime in as well. What I have read till now is conflicting as some mention that the early production Mk VIIIs didn't have the torque linkages while others have documented at least some VIIIs with the linkages. My previous Hasegawa Mk VIII builds (72 and 48) are without them and the kits didn't come with either. I have this one prepped nonetheless. The one closer to you is from the AZ Model kit and for the one behind it is from a Fujimi XIV kit.

http://imgur.com/a/DauRMdj

[Graham Boak]

All I can add is that a few years back there was a very good thread on this subject, which addressed when the Mk.VIII changed from the rear scissors to the forward ones.  This was discussed from the point of view of the Aussie ones.  Several Supermarine oleo references were quoted, but I don't recall what they were and which was which.  I think the cut-away at the door base is a bit of a hint - for the presence of the rear link?

[Madmaks]

14 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

All I can add is that a few years back there was a very good thread on this subject, which addressed when the Mk.VIII changed from the rear scissors to the forward ones.  This was discussed from the point of view of the Aussie ones.  Several Supermarine oleo references were quoted, but I don't recall what they were and which was which.  I think the cut-away at the door base is a bit of a hint - for the presence of the rear link?

Thx Graham! I remember that discussion well. I will go with the scissors upfront. And to make things worse the carpet monster has since gobbled up some parts from my tray so I will actually have to go with one strut with scissors from the kit and the other with the Fujimi as pictured in my previous reply (banging head)

[72modeler]

Found another good reference on the Mk VIII torque links; scroll down on the attached link to the March 28, 2019 post- looks like there were three strut types: one with no links, one with forward-facing links, and one with aft-facing links, As Graham has stated, the strut with aft-facing links is sometimes easier to spot as there are triangular depressions  in the strut fairing doors for full travel of the links, but are seldom photographed from an angle where they can be seen. The second link is from the excellent Spitfire website, with good detail photos of the strut/torque link/strut fairing door on a Mk IX with the forward-facing torque links.

Mike

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/done-gb-41-1-72-spitfire-mk-viii-pto-from-1937.50718/page-4

 

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfire-mk-ix-xi-and-xvi-variants-much-varied.html/3

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by 72modeler
corrected text

[Graham Boak]

Note that this discussion references the following Britmodeller thread.  https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234924628-spitfire-viii-landing-gear/  OK, maybe more than just a few years ago...

 

[72modeler]

Thanks, Graham- I too remembered the thread and was looking all over for it, with no success. Much obliged, podnuh!

Mike

 

It appears that the Spitfires with the forward-facing torque links have a kink in the fairing between the strut fairing part of the door and the wheel part. The Spitfires with aft-facing torque links have a triangular depression cut into the inner surface of the wheel portion of the fairing door to allow for the scissor action of the link, but you can't see that from the outer view, only from the wheel side, which seems to have been photographed very rarely- maybe walkarounds of restored aircraft might have a better view of this type of link? (It's all in the details!) 

 

[Madmaks]

Many thanks for all the help - finally got her done!