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Navy Bird

1:72 CMR Blackburn Firebrand TF Mk.V

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12 hours ago, Bedders said:

the tail seems like it was designed on a Friday afternoon before the summer holidays, or was borrowed from a Vultee Vengeance, and could have done with a bit more...refinement!

That’s what a bit (OK, a lot) of directional instability in early versions will do for you; they had to make the tail bigger to cure problems with the design.  
 

Much as I love the Firebrand, it was one of those designs that spent so long in development between initial concept and reaching the front line that hey should have pulled the plug long before.  Far from all Blackburn’s fault; they couldn’t prise the engines away from Typhoon production - but even if they’d had limitless engines, it’s rather hard to see exactly what role the Firebrand was supposed to be doing.  Mixing torpedo bomber and fleet fighter just isn’t going to work; skittish torpedo bombers are not a great idea, and rock steady, heavy fighters no better...

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9 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

It's almost like the Centaurus engine installation and cowling were a standard "sub-assembly" that was bolted onto different aircraft. 

They were.

Bristol had form on this, having developed the "power egg" principal with the Hercules in 1939. 

A complete engine, ancilliaries and cowling that had standard fittings and could easily be quickly swapped out for a replacement unit or (in theory at least) for an upgraded unit.

This was less successfully tried by RR with the Merlin unit from the Lancaster being ussed in the Beaufighter and Miles M20.

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2 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

They were.

Bristol had form on this, having developed the "power egg" principal with the Hercules in 1939. 

A complete engine, ancilliaries and cowling that had standard fittings and could easily be quickly swapped out for a replacement unit or (in theory at least) for an upgraded unit.

I think there's a 1:48 Firebrand build thread on here somewhere where the engine installations on the Firebrand and Sea Fury are compared - they are indeed very similar, but not the same. The top and bottom of the Sea Fury cowling are more or less straight and parallel where the Firebrand has a subtle curve underneath, I seem to recall. I can't find the thread now, of course - not that I'd know how to add a link to it in any event...

 

Anyway, delighted you're doing another esoteric (i.e. almost totally useless) Fleet Air Arm type Bill - it's what makes them (and your wonderful build threads)  so interesting...

 

Cheers,

Nick.

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Always late to the party, Smashing subject to portray, looking forward to this!

Bob

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Thanks mates. I like the term "power egg.' It sounds like one of those Kinder egg things my grandkids play with, but with a 2,200 kW sleeve valve radial inside.    :)

 

I suspect the following photo shows some CMR fubar-ness, and not that the front of the cowling was actually angled relative to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft.

 

IMG_5306

 

None of the drawings I have show anything like this. My plan is to fix this, but if the "error" is with me, and it really should be angled, let me know soon!!     :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

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Nick is right on this, though Bristol did produce engines along the 'power-egg' principles, the Firebrand cowl is quite different to most other set ups, especially in profile.

The four bladed prop and air induction fan is very similar to the Brigand set-up, but again different cowl shape.

 

The poor old Firebrand was a victim of outdated specifications that called for Torpedo Fighter aircraft, the following Firecrest and early Wyvern were equally hamstrung by the requirement.

 

 

Bill that angle is tingling something in the recesses of my mind, are we sure that the engine wasn't cantered slightly?

I know that the fin and rudder were, so maybe getting muddled with that.

Edited by 71chally

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37 minutes ago, 71chally said:

Bill that angle is tingling something in the recesses of my mind, are we sure that the engine wasn't cantered slightly?

I know that the fin and rudder were, so maybe getting muddled with that.

 

The drawings I have clearly show the fin and rudder off-axis, but not the engine or cowling. CMR have faithfully produced the offset of the fin, and I think the cowling issue is just an artifact of the resin casting. It's not a nice clean angle like my photo suggests - the surface at the front has more of a toroidal shape. (How's that for the word of the day, eh? For those of you only acquainted with the vulgar, let's just say "potato-crisped.")

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Sounds like a molding issue then and not because;

A It was British

B It was carrier based

C It was designed and built by Blackburn

 

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Finally managed to pry myself away from my new "toy" (the big honking light bucket) to do a bit more modelling. This was not as easy as it should be, as the new astronomical leviathan currently occupies a significant portion of my studio. Whatever.    :)

 

You may recall that we were left with a fairly wonky front end to the fuselage after it was closed up. I began with sanding sticks, but soon realised that if I continued in such a fashion I would make the fuselage too short, and remove a good bit of detail, by the time I was finished. I decided instead to use a small shim to "force" the cowling to be square to the axis of the aircraft. You can see from the photo the pattern left by the sanding stick - and from that pattern you now know why I used that wonderful word "toroidal."

 

IMG_5307

 

The cowling is a bit oversize, so I've been sanding that to fit better prior to attaching it. What else? Oh, right - the flap rails. You may have noticed early on that one of them was missing:

 

IMG_5290

 

Due to general fumble thumb-ness, I've managed to knock another one off. They are quite thin and only attached at the forward portion of the well, just inviting lumps like me to damage them. I think they'll be easy to replace with card stock. Rather, I hope.     😕

 

I managed to damage most, if not all, of the cooling vanes from the front of the engine when I removed it from the casting block, and these will also have to be replaced with card stock. Interestingly, other builds of this kit that I've found on-line have the modeller replacing this entire resin piece (cooling vanes plus spinner) with injection moulded parts from the spares box. Unfortunately, the Island of Misfit Spares has no such goodies here at Navy Birdland. Rats. That's OK, as I keep telling myself that working with minuscule bits of card stock somehow protects my eyesight from the ravages of old age. Wishful thinking perhaps.

 

Back to the bench...    :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

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On 1/21/2020 at 8:05 PM, Navy Bird said:

I suspect the following photo shows some CMR fubar-ness, and not that the front of the cowling was actually angled relative to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft.

It could be very useful if you want to turn left...?

Nice fix - given a coarse sanding stick and my natural talents, I'd have filed the fuselage back to the cockpit before getting it square...

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,

Nick.

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1 hour ago, Nickthebrief said:

I'd have filed the fuselage back to the cockpit before getting it square...

 

Exactly what I was afraid of doing!    :)

 

I also think (after the fact) that now was probably not the best time to fix the flap rails...

 

 

IMG_5308

 

Any guesses as to when I knock them off again?    :doh:

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. I just found this box lurking in the depths of my stash - one of CMR's earlier efforts and not quite as detailed as the Firebrand, but with a lot of the same engineering ideas (one piece wing for example):

 

IMG_5310

 

Hmm...designed during WWII, first flight in 1944, carrier-based attack/strike aircraft and torpedo bomber, lengthy development period, only 151 built, proved troublesome in service, hard to land on deck...sounds a bit like the Firebrand. Maybe I should build this one in tandem with the Blackburn. Thoughts?

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8 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

Maybe I should build this one in tandem with the Blackburn. Thoughts?

Need you ask? Really?

 

Have you started yet? 

 

:D  :D 

 

Ciao

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Love the firebrand so far.

 

Actually it not that unusual for a propellor driven airframe to be asymmetric to counter the moment of the engine internals and prop, the hawker fury has an assymetric tail and the engine pod on the Supermarine walrus is offset by ~10 degrees( i think ).

 

 

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17 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

now was probably not the best time to fix the flap rails...

Bill,

Got some styrofoam peanuts handy? Drill a small hole in a suitably-sized chunk and push gently over the end of each flap rail- should protect them from further trauma! I also have the CMR Mauler in the stash, so would appreciate your venturing into the resin world and building it so I can see how it goes! (I'll just stand quietly behind and take copious notes and hand you the tweezers when requested, doctor!)

Mike

Edited by 72modeler
added text

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17 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Yes please

 

I knew somebody would say that.   :)

 

9 hours ago, giemme said:

Have you started yet?

 

Of course not, I've hardly started the Firebrand. But I will start the Mauler (probably in a separate thread) soon. After all, my favourite colours are Extra Dark Sea Grey and Glossy Dark Sea Blue - they go well together.

 

55 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Got some styrofoam peanuts handy?

 

I had some, but I painted them orange and gave them out at Halloween.    :devil:

 

Cheers,

Bill

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OK, I've started the Mauler thread.

 

 

I'm off to Florida for the next 10 days, so don't expect a lot of updates. I'll have my laptop with me, so if I get the urge I'll check in and see what you lunatics are up to.

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Have a good (warm) trip Bill :) 

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On 1/19/2020 at 3:26 PM, corsaircorp said:

 

IMG_20191124_202435

CC, you are a bad man.  Somehow one of these ended up being delivered by our postman yesterday.  Mine is slightly different - spread wings rather than folded - but even so.  On cursory first inspection, it looks very nice.

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10 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

CC, you are a bad man.  Somehow one of these ended up being delivered by our postman yesterday.  Mine is slightly different - spread wings rather than folded - but even so.  On cursory first inspection, it looks very nice.

Hello Crisp !!

One more Blackburn in good hands !! :thumbsup:

Can't wait to see it started.

I think that one can build it with wing folded or not with all the boxes, but I'm not quite sure...

Now I did'nt investigate too much !

C'me on Show your !!

I'll have a .4 or  .5 next time !

CC

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I survived Florida! But now I'm back here in cold Rottenchester.... :(

 

Perhaps you remembered this photo, way back when, that shows how the engine fan and spinner were cast.

 

IMG_5291

 

I admire CMR's ability to cast the fan blades so thin, but the method of attaching this part to the casting block makes it quite difficult to remove. And as I mentioned earlier, several of the blades had broken off during shipment. I figured I was going to have to replace the blades no matter what, as every method I tried to remove this part resulted in more damage. So I just hacked it off:

 

IMG_5316

 

I measured the two surviving intact blades, and then set to sanding off the remnants of CMR's exquisite casting. I grabbed a bit of 0.005" thick styrene, and made a bunch of replacement blades. In case you're wondering, the blades are 1.5mm x 1.0mm (approximately). I didn't say I measured them accurately.

 

IMG_5318

 

Did someone say fiddly? I think that's too weak a word; perhaps one of you linguistic wizards can suggest a stronger one, like bloodyfreakingridiculous (BFR). In any event, a bit of superglue, a toothpick, my pointy-stabby tweezers, and a hour or so later, I think we have a fan that will pass muster.

 

IMG_5321

 

Only I'm not sure if I can pick it up!    :doh:  Too much fun - I think I'll go paint the cockpit on the Mauler, ZCG is not BFR.

 

Cheers,

Bill

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On 25/01/2020 at 08:57, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

CC, you are a bad man.  Somehow one of these ended up being delivered by our postman yesterday.  Mine is slightly different - spread wings rather than folded - but even so.  On cursory first inspection, it looks very nice.

Sorry Crisp. we did put him back in the naughty corner after Telford but clearly someone left the key in the door.

1 hour ago, Navy Bird said:

I survived Florida! But now I'm back here in cold Rottenchester.... :(

 

Perhaps you remembered this photo, way back when, that shows how the engine fan and spinner were cast.

 

IMG_5291

 

I admire CMR's ability to cast the fan blades so thin, but the method of attaching this part to the casting block makes it quite difficult to remove. And as I mentioned earlier, several of the blades had broken off during shipment. I figured I was going to have to replace the blades no matter what, as every method I tried to remove this part resulted in more damage. So I just hacked it off:

 

IMG_5316

 

I measured the two surviving intact blades, and then set to sanding off the remnants of CMR's exquisite casting. I grabbed a bit of 0.005" thick styrene, and made a bunch of replacement blades. In case you're wondering, the blades are 1.5mm x 1.0mm (approximately). I didn't say I measured them accurately.

 

IMG_5318

 

Did someone say fiddly? I think that's too weak a word; perhaps one of you linguistic wizards can suggest a stronger one, like bloodyfreakingridiculous (BFR). In any event, a bit of superglue, a toothpick, my pointy-stabby tweezers, and a hour or so later, I think we have a fan that will pass muster.

 

IMG_5321

 

Only I'm not sure if I can pick it up!    :doh:  Too much fun - I think I'll go paint the cockpit on the Mauler, ZCG is not BFR.

 

Cheers,

Bill

Lovely work Bill.

 

Martian 👽

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Seconded! Great 'BFR' work Bill :D 

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16 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

bloodyfreakingridiculous

That sounds appropriate, anyway :D

Excellent job :clap:

 

Ciao

Edited by giemme

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You must be most patient person I know Bill, scratch building that fan would drive me crazy!

Glad you had a nice break, here's some inspiration for you 

 

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