Redstaff Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Hi all My stash and my interests have recently been moving towards 4 wheels rather than wingy things, mainly F1 and rally cars In the past I have sprayed with a rattle can which leaves a glossy finish, added decals then gloss coated to seal them. Some of my upcoming builds I want to try zero paints for specific colours, now come the questions. Do you decal onto the base coat then seal with the clearcoat or do I need to clearcoat, decal then clearcoat again? All the youtube vids I've seen are for street cars without decals. I want to use 2 pack diamond for the F1 clearcoat, but for the rally cars I don't want such a high gloss, has anyone used the 1 bottle laquer of theirs as I assume it won't be such a high gloss Many thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Hi Ian, you can use zero paints and decals either of the ways you mention above. I prefer to apply the decals to the basecoat and then use the 2k clear over the top. Just make sure the first coat of clear is a very light mist coat and also make sure you leave at least 5 minutes between coats. The basecoat should also be sprayed in light coats with at least a 10 minute gap between never spray heavy wet coats . Air pressure between 15-20 psi is ideal for both. Once mixed you have approx 40 minutes of work time before the diamond clear becomes to thick to spray so be sure to pick a time to spray when you can expect no interruptions. Adding an extra drop of thinner to the final clear coat works wonders. Regards Andy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Just to be Harry Opposite, I always clear over the basecoat before applying decals simply because that's the way I've always done it with aircraft! But Andy's method is equally valid as is proved by many fine builds both he and many other car modellers achieve doing it that way. I think it might be down to the fact that basecoats like Zero, Splash, Gravity etc give a really nice smooth finish out of the gun, and can even be micromeshed smoother if you want. A really good video build series on building a Tamiya rally Subaru was done by Paul Bretland of International Scale Modeller. I've been building car models for over 40 years and still learnt some good tips from his videos! This is the first part: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd2ksqn_Fpg&list=PLGjywlyvGil_6luKVRL4EzhV9tplYiXjU&index=15&t=0s Decalling is part three I think (and he decals using the same method as Andy) I can't use 2K clear as I spray in the house so am stuck with single part clears (and Andy knows my frustration with them!) I used the Zero single part clear years ago and didn't get on with spraying it at all. However I bought a new bottle a few weeks ago, and test spraying some spoons went pretty well. I haven't had chance to use it on a car body yet, I will do when I manage to get one painted properly! I have to say that probably my favourite clear is still Mr Super Clear UV cut gloss out of a rattle can - so I may just go back to using that! Keith 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstaff Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 Thanks for the quick replies gents, much appreciated 1 hour ago, keefr22 said: I have to say that probably my favourite clear is still Mr Super Clear UV cut gloss out of a rattle can I must admit Keith, that's what I've been using on the cars I used to use Tamiya TS-13 which was ok, but the Mr super is better Gives me something to think about now Just didn't fancy clear coating twice, so I'll give Andys method a go I'll check out the youtube vids as well, thanks Ia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Redstaff said: I'll give Andys method a go Me too next time I need to decal a car - I agree clearcoating twice is a hassle! K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan R Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Hi All, I don't use 2k clear, as I am bothered about the toxicity of the stuff. However, my preference is for a more 'scale' gloss finish. I have managed that using Tamiya X-22 thinned with Mr Color Levelling thinners. The clear coat is not as robust as lacquer clears, but I am happy with it. As for decaling, I always thought that putting a clear coat before and after decaling was the way yto go. I'll try putting the decals onto the base coat, then clear coating. ZP base coats do have a fine satin finish, so silvering may not be a problem … I hope! Cheers, Alan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Noble Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) You don't need to apply a big wet shiny coat of clear before the decals. Just a quick, thin once over is plenty enough to seal the surface before the decal application. I find although the base coat is relatively smooth, a quick clear does make decal application better, as the decals can slide around on the surface easier than on the base coat alone. I also find that sometimes, although not always, decal solvents can mark the base coat and it's also susceptible to finger prints, dirt etc. That's why I always use a thin clear coat to seal and protect the surface first. It takes only a few minutes to apply but has so many benefits.. Edited January 7, 2020 by Steve Noble 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 29 minutes ago, Alan R said: The clear coat is not as robust as lacquer clears, Talking of laquer clears, at the moment I wouldn't recommend the new Tamiya Laquer Paint clear (LP9). I recently used it on my Tamiya 350Z (which is on about it's eigth 'paint job'!) and despite leaving the clear to dry and harden off for over a week, when I started to polish it out, despite it coming up to a nice shine at first, within a couple of minutes it started to craze. I did use a craft acrylic as the base paint but have done so in the past with no problem like this, so doubt it's the cause. I plan to paint an old body in tamiya LP paint and then use the clear again, but until I try that I won't be using LP9 again. Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Noble Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) I'm trying to find a clear that's easy and safe to use over decals, but not 2K, as I want to avoid using that from now on. Most lacquer clears I try destroy the decals and melt them. Only thing I've used that seems to work is Mr Top Coat. But it obviously doesn't have the big shine that 2K clear has. I wish someone could produce a non poisonous 2K clear or a hobby clear with the main benefit that it doesn't melt the decals, but gives that easy finish aspect of 2K without the health issues involved... Edited January 7, 2020 by Steve Noble 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeroenS Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I've been using zero paints' 1k clear for some time, no problem for decals (mist coat first of course), shiny enough for my tastes and hard enough to polish. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamblor916 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 22 minutes ago, keefr22 said: Talking of laquer clears, at the moment I wouldn't recommend the new Tamiya Laquer Paint clear (LP9). I recently used it on my Tamiya 350Z (which is on about it's eigth 'paint job'!) and despite leaving the clear to dry and harden off for over a week, when I started to polish it out, despite it coming up to a nice shine at first, within a couple of minutes it started to craze. I did use a craft acrylic as the base paint but have done so in the past with no problem like this, so doubt it's the cause. I plan to paint an old body in tamiya LP paint and then use the clear again, but until I try that I won't be using LP9 again. Keith Tamiya says otherwise. 14 minutes ago, Steve Noble said: I'm trying to find a clear that's easy and safe to use over decals, but not 2K, as I want to avoid using that from now on. Most lacquer clears I try destroy the decals and melt them. Only thing I've used that seems to work is Mr Top Coat. But it obviously doesn't have the big shine that 2K clear has. I wish someone could produce a non poisonous 2K clear or a hobby clear with the main benefit that it doesn't melt the decals, but gives that easy finish aspect of 2K without the health issues involved... I avoid 2K for the same reasons. My standard clear these days is Gaianotes EX-3 gloss clear and Mr Hobby leveling thinners. It's not as good as a 2k but provided you prepare the surface properly it looks very nice after a good sand and polish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Alan R said: ZP base coats do have a fine satin finish, so silvering may not be a problem … I hope! Hi Alan, I only decal this way when using a 2k clear coat. For any other clear I would gloss first then decal then gloss again. I use micro set and sol on ZP basecoats with no problem at all but the majority of the time I use no setting solutions at all, just water and the hairdryer. The zero 1k clear does give a good gloss finish just not as shiny as the 2k. I have a family member who has his own paint business and at my request he is developing a water based gloss clear that he reckons will rival the 2k finish early tests that I've seen are superb and I should have a sample to try out soon. Regards Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, gamblor916 said: Tamiya says otherwise. Indeed. But my past experience told me otherwise, and it may well be that this new paint is hotter than the laquer clears I've used in the past. And it was the laquer clear that crazed in this case, even after over a week of hardening, not the underlying acrylic (and I've just spent a couple of hours gently sanding the clear off the roof to prove that to myself - after I'd got the clear off the underlying paint looked fine. It doesn't anymore though as 400 grit wet n dry has now taken it back to primer!) Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, gamblor916 said: My standard clear these days is Gaianotes EX-3 gloss clear and Mr Hobby leveling thinners. It's not as good as a 2k but provided you prepare the surface properly it looks very nice after a good sand and polish. Also never seen that brand of paint available in the UK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, Andy J said: I have a family member who has his own paint business and at my request he is developing a water based gloss clear that he reckons will rival the 2k finish early tests that I've seen are superb and I should have a sample to try out soon. Fingers crossed that works out Andy! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, keefr22 said: Fingers crossed that works out Andy! Keith Hi Keith, check out my PM 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Steve Noble said: I wish someone could produce a non poisonous 2K clear I found a full size car refinishing 2K on e-bay that claimed not to have isocyanates in it, I thought I'd saved it in my watch list but can't find it now... 5 minutes ago, Andy J said: Hi Keith, check out my PM 😉 Have replied Andy.... Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstaff Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Well I've taken the plunge to try out Zero paints after your advice Just ordered a set of Roger Clark "Cossack" decals for the Mkii escort in the stash and a bottle of the Zero red paint for it, also some 1K clear as I don't want mega shiny Have got a P51D Mustang to finish first for the STGB then the Escort will probably be next Will put a post in WIP when I make a start Thanks for all the advice Ian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Look forward to seeing it Ian. Spray light coats with the zero red build up gradually and most importantly leave approx 10 minutes between coats 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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