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1/48 - Canadair Sabre Mk.4 by Airfix - released


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On 4/20/2021 at 3:42 PM, Dave Swindell said:

The RAF Sabres used 120 gallon drop tanks - 120 US gallons = 100 Imperial gallons {99.9209 to be precise)

A lot of the early RAF Sabre pilots were US trained, some

I was reading this thinking something is wrong because there are 16 fl oz in a US pint and 20 fl oz in an Imperial pint. Then I found out that the fl oz is based of the respective gallon so that a US fl oz is 4% larger than an Imperial fl oz. I’ve been doing volume conversions wrong for decades!

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OK, I'm confused (I know it doesn't take much!) Did RAF Sabres have different wings? Reason I ask is that I was expecting the Airfix kit to have slats and no wing fences. I have Duncan Curtis's Sabre book and its full of photos of RAF Sabres, some with slats and some without and some with wing fences and some without. Is the kit narrow cord? I'm just curious because they say to remove the forward corner of the wing if opening the gun bay panels?

I think whats confused me are the Sabre Wings demystified drawings.  Are these this correct as it says slats and no wing fence for Mk's 1-4?

Also, cockpit and seat colours? Airfix say med grey but I thought they were black? And US interior green for the wheel wells?

Thank you very much for any clarifications.

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Airfix's kit represents a later/modified Sabre 4 with 6-3, non-slatted wing. Cockpit & seat should be black; wheel wells and speed brake bays interior green.

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4 minutes ago, keithjs said:

Did RAF Sabres have different wings?

yes. Slatted and the 6-3.    And some got retrofitted with the 6-3 wing as well IIRC

 

5 minutes ago, keithjs said:

I'm just curious because they say to remove the forward corner of the wing if opening the gun bay panels?

This was for the 6-3 wing. As it was 6 inches wide at the root, to access the gun bay, a section needed to be removed from the wing leading edge.

 

as I understand it, Airfix cannot get to a slatted wing Sabre to LIDAR it, so it "won't happen" , (though the kit wing is set up so you could add a slatted upper wing.)   

 

As has been said often in thread, a shame, as both Hase and Academy do decent 6-3 wing Sabres,   but the only slatted wing is the Revell F-86 D.... 

maybe they will get to LIDAR a slatted wing...... but it won't be soon if ever...

 

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Ah, thank you both very much. You learn something everyday. Is there any way of knowing which aircraft had which wing serial number wise or can you only tell by looking at photos? Best be on my guard then to make sure I do my choice with the correct wing?

So wonder why Aifrix say grey for the cockpit?

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23 minutes ago, keithjs said:

Ah, thank you both very much. You learn something everyday. Is there any way of knowing which aircraft had which wing serial number wise or can you only tell by looking at photos? Best be on my guard then to make sure I do my choice with the correct wing?

So wonder why Aifrix say grey for the cockpit?

Keith

 

If you look at the end of each chapter in your Sabre book there’s a list of each squadrons aircraft serial numbers and if they had a slatted or hard wing or if they’d were retrofitted with a hard wing. 
 

HTH

 

James 

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A reasonably simple way is to look at each squadron to see if they operated 6-3-winged Sabres: 26 Sqn didn't and 112 did for example. Generally this was based on the Wing operating one kind of equipment. Some squadrons flew slatted aircraft very briefly before going over to 6-3-winged aircraft. Other squadrons did the wing conversion locally (71 Sqn for example). 

 

But if you tell me which aircraft you want to depict, I'll see if I have a photo to prove one way or another; not all of my RAF Sabre photos got used on the book!

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24 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

A reasonably simple way is to look at each squadron to see if they operated 6-3-winged Sabres: 26 Sqn didn't and 112 did for example. Generally this was based on the Wing operating one kind of equipment. Some squadrons flew slatted aircraft very briefly before going over to 6-3-winged aircraft. Other squadrons did the wing conversion locally (71 Sqn for example). 

 

But if you tell me which aircraft you want to depict, I'll see if I have a photo to prove one way or another; not all of my RAF Sabre photos got used on the book!

Thank you very much. I haven't completly decided yet but it'll be either; XB931 (4 Sqd),  XB829 (93 Sqd)  or XB855 (66 Sqd) which Xtradecal say is actually an F6?

Thank you for your time.

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1 hour ago, keithjs said:

So wonder why Aifrix say grey for the cockpit?

They may ask for knowledgeable advice, but they don't always follow it....  or, perhaps, don't get their advisers to check over what they have done.... 

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So, to do a slatted narrow chord wing F-86E-5 from Airfix kit, do you need to changed anything else besides the wing?

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2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

(...)

 

As has been said often in thread, a shame, as both Hase and Academy do decent 6-3 wing Sabres,   but the only slatted wing is the Revell F-86 D.... 

maybe they will get to LIDAR a slatted wing...... but it won't be soon if ever...

 

Not sure if this has been mentioned here as well: The Revellogram F-86D has a slatted wing but Monogram (or Revell?) have messed up with the wing angle. I tried to use the D wing on an Academy kit and found it would be difficult as the wheel bay and such are all in the wrong place. Best way would be to cut off the slats from the D wing and stick them to the 6-3 wing (with other cut-and-shut to do). So I went to get a resin set from Kiwi Resin which is now as much OOP as the Cutting Edge set. I know of no other conversion set for slatted wings. So not an shake and bake conversion in any way.

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7 minutes ago, Caerbannog said:

So not an shake and bake conversion in any way.

No, but the way the new Airfix wing is set up it like a new slatted upperwing could be made as a 'drop fit' for it, be it injection, 3-d printer or resin...  

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34 minutes ago, Caerbannog said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned here as well: The Revellogram F-86D has a slatted wing but Monogram (or Revell?) have messed up with the wing angle. I tried to use the D wing on an Academy kit and found it would be difficult as the wheel bay and such are all in the wrong place. Best way would be to cut off the slats from the D wing and stick them to the 6-3 wing (with other cut-and-shut to do). So I went to get a resin set from Kiwi Resin which is now as much OOP as the Cutting Edge set. I know of no other conversion set for slatted wings. So not an shake and bake conversion in any way.


Red Roo models sell a drop in conversion for the Hasegawa Sabre kits. I have one in the stash and it looks to be well cast. I can’t remember who makes it of the top of my head. 
 

It’s quite expensive to get it posted to the UK if that’s where you are if they even will with the current situation. 
 

James 

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3 hours ago, Caerbannog said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned here as well: The Revellogram F-86D has a slatted wing but Monogram (or Revell?) have messed up with the wing angle. I tried to use the D wing on an Academy kit and found it would be difficult as the wheel bay and such are all in the wrong place. Best way would be to cut off the slats from the D wing and stick them to the 6-3 wing (with other cut-and-shut to do). So I went to get a resin set from Kiwi Resin which is now as much OOP as the Cutting Edge set. I know of no other conversion set for slatted wings. So not an shake and bake conversion in any way.

 

No major issue with the Dog wing: I used it to do an F-86A, using the Eduard F-86F. Conversely, I narrowed the chord of the 'F' wing to make a 'D' with slats closed.

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5 hours ago, keithjs said:

Thank you very much. I haven't completly decided yet but it'll be either; XB931 (4 Sqd),  XB829 (93 Sqd)  or XB855 (66 Sqd) which Xtradecal say is actually an F6?

Thank you for your time.

 

OK then:

 

XB931 (4 sqn/G) – definitely had the 6-3 wing: photos here are not the best (Mick Ryan and Norman Giffin), but do show enough (wing root fillet etc). This aircraft served with 4 Sqn from 31 March 1954 to 10 April 1955 when it suffered an oxygen bottle explosion

 

XB931 Norman Giffin

 

XB931 Mick Ryan

 

XB855 (66 Sqn/H) – definitely 6-3 wing: it was an ex-112 Sqn aircraft and was ‘hard-edged’ with them before being sent to 66 Sqn on 25 June 1955. It served until 20 April 1956 (photo via Roger Lindsay). The photo isn’t too clear, but does show the wing fence and also the ‘2TAF’ camouflage scheme, even though it was by this time with a Fighter Command squadron.

 

XB855

 

XB829 (93 Sqn/D) – definitely NOT 6-3 winged. The photo below (note slatted wing) was taken on 3 March 1955; it returned to the UK the following month. 

 

XB829 03Mar55

 

Note that all active duty RAF Sabres were CL-13 Mk.4 (RAF Sabre F.4). There were a few CL-13 Mk.2 (RAF Sabre F.2), but they were only used by training units and experimental/auxiliary units etc.

 

Hope this helps!
 

 

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Its a lovely looking kit.. Im very much looking forward to building it.. I have put a unboxing and review on YouTube but you'll have to search for it as im not allowed to link it here.. someone else can but I had my last unboxing removed as spam sadly 

Rules are rules and I enjoy this forum so don't want to be kicked off

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Thank you very much for your time Sabrejet!  Just to be awkward, did any 93 squadron aircraft have the 6-3 wing as they're not listed in the book? Any serial/code will do.

Again, much appreciated.

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I recalled that Hasegawa made a 1/48 scale F-86F-40 and it occurred to me that was the solution to the slatted wing issue. So, I looked the kit up and discovered it doesn't feature wing slats. I was very surprised!

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52 minutes ago, keithjs said:

Thank you very much for your time Sabrejet!  Just to be awkward, did any 93 squadron aircraft have the 6-3 wing as they're not listed in the book? Any serial/code will do.

Again, much appreciated.

 

From memory, 93 Sqn was one unit which didn't have any 6-3-wing Sabres :( I'll double-check just to be sure.

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45 minutes ago, keithjs said:

Thank you very much for your time Sabrejet!  Just to be awkward, did any 93 squadron aircraft have the 6-3 wing as they're not listed in the book? Any serial/code will do.

Again, much appreciated.

Not to my knowledge no, the example in the Cosford museum was a 93 Sqn jet in RAF service, during that time it had slatted wings. It was only after it was withdrawn from RAF service was the hard wing (which is how it remains today).

 

In RAF service the cockpit was only ever black. Apparently some ex RAF aircraft in Italian service had their cockpits painted grey but that was only during a major overhaul (repainting a real aircrafts cockpit is bloody difficult involving a lot of disturbed systems functional checks). I suspect having surveyed the Norwegian aircraft which is an F model and did have a grey cockpit, Airfix have made the assumption that all Sabre cockpits are grey.

 

 

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1 hour ago, keithjs said:

Thank you very much for your time Sabrejet!  Just to be awkward, did any 93 squadron aircraft have the 6-3 wing as they're not listed in the book? Any serial/code will do.

Again, much appreciated.

 

No - definitively 93 Sqn did not operate any 6-3-wing Sabres.

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I stumbled across this web site just a few minutes ago and it occurred to me it might prove useful to Sabre modelers, regardless which version you're building. It includes a section on Canadair Sabres. The site features color side profiles, beautifully rendered and I believe it's a great resource. Now if I can get my much wanted F-86H in 1/48 scale I'll be able to use the profiles at this site that cover that airplane.

https://sabresandfuries.wordpress.com/

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6 hours ago, SAT69 said:

I stumbled across this web site just a few minutes ago and it occurred to me it might prove useful to Sabre modelers, regardless which version you're building. It includes a section on Canadair Sabres. The site features color side profiles, beautifully rendered and I believe it's a great resource. Now if I can get my much wanted F-86H in 1/48 scale I'll be able to use the profiles at this site that cover that airplane.

https://sabresandfuries.wordpress.com/

 

Unfortunately, though I can't criticise the effort that's obviously gone into that website, it has some incorrect colour information even at first glance: 116th FIS F-86A (tail colours incorrect), 197th FIS F-86A (snake incorrect colour), 406th FIW F-86F (I think this one is just a wrong label), ATC F-86F (incorrect fuselage band colours) etc. I didn't go any further but I'd suggest it would be a reference for further research rather than a one-stop-shop.

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10 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

 

No - definitively 93 Sqn did not operate any 6-3-wing Sabres.

Ah, right, thank you. That would probably explain why they're not mentioned at the end of the 93 squadron section in the book then.? Oh, one more thing (promise) What happens to the little section of wing that is removed to open the gun bay panels? Have I seen photos of them hanging on little chains or wires?  Thanks again.

EDIT!! Sorry, if in doubt look closer at the instructions. I see its part of the gun bay panel. 

Edited by keithjs
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