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1/48 - North American/Canadair F-86F-40 Sabre F.4 - released - new CMK sets


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15 minutes ago, baldwin8 said:

by breakdown, I assume your referring to Constructor Numbers? This is it. Notice I do not use the term "Mark" in the list when describing the Canadair Sabre versions. The "Mark" seems a unofficial one that I can't see mentioned in Canadair or RCAF documents, although I can not speak for the RAF Sabre 4. Various changes were made during manufacture of the aircraft and not all changes were version specific.

 

I was wondering how these 'map' onto the RAF serials specifically.   Sure this will end being discussed at some point here or has been elsewhere.  

 

8 minutes ago, RichG said:

but I guess my point was that Airfix's research would have led them in a particular direction, rather than being unduly influenced by other kits available.

My point, was that a kit popular in North America, both US and Canada,  is a good for sales, the US being a larger market.  Fans of US types will buy  an unavailable version even if they have 6-3 wings, (given the slatted wing is either cross kitting, careful surgery or expensive resin) which goes for early US Korean war Sabres, and Canadian ones.

If Airfix just wanted a 6-3 wing Sabre, they could have bought in the existing Academy kit, as they are doing with 1/35 armour.  

 

I know, I know opinions are like what everyones got.... 

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I can't really discuss the kit itself however in case it helps, these RAF Sabres were '6-3'-winged at manufacture:

XB647 thru XB650

XB770 thru XB775

XB851 thru XB855

XB916 thru XB951

XB986 thru XB993

XD780 thru XD781

 

Some of these aircraft had been ferried across with 'XD1xx' serial numbers but these were cancelled and those above applied for service use. 

 

4 Sqn in 2TAF only operated 6-3 Sabres. 112 Sqn only had slatted a/c for its first few months, as did 130 Sqn.

 

The following squadrons flew no/few 6-3-wing a/c: 26 Sqn (only two 6-3 a/c); 93 Sqn (none).

 

The rest flew a mix, dependent on date; slatted first; then 6-3 where conversion was possible.

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I’ll predict that this kit is just another that falls into the ‘hold off on what the market really wants’ until the second release. Many of us will buy this initial 6-3 winged kit, then add another to the stash when the slatted version comes out a year or two later. Seems like that’s the way many manufacturers are going these days so I reckon this Sabre falls into the same category. 
 

Down here, 1/48 Academy Sabres are quite easy to come by at local swap meets. I reckon you could easily pick one up for the equivalent of 15 GBP and for that you get nice crisp panel lines, a complete engine and a maintenance stand to mount the thing on. Overall it’s a very nice package and I think still holds its own today. The Hasegawa kit is not as readily available and the price is always higher than what it should be. 
 

48 scale modellers have been praying for an early mark Sabre for decades now. It would be criminal to have invested all that time and research and not allow the provision to model a slatted wing version out of these new moulds. 
 

I truly accept that one should never speak ill of probably the most iconic of plastic kit modelling manufacturers, however if Hornby co. really wanted to make some serious US money after the hugely popular 1/24 Hellcat, then please give the market a 1/48 Slatted Wing Sabre as soon as humanely possible!! 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

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4 hours ago, Charlie Hugo said:

would require some fuselage changes a swell. Look at the leading edge of the wing and where/how it meets the fuselage, On the non 6-3 wing it is 3" behind the ammo tank and on the 6-3 wing 3" into the ammo tank, A portion of the leading edge drops down to allow the ammo bay to be opened on the aircraft. If you know about it, it is very obvious

no fuselage change in the real 1:1 aircraft so why would there be a change in 1/48 ??

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22 minutes ago, Tony Edmundson said:

I know we only have the one image so far, but it does look to me as if the pylon tanks are too far outboard.   Please, please; be on wing sta. 99.5.    

 

Tony

I have explained the various pylon locations, so the kit should be OK; the render isn't representative of the kit which will be boxed as a RAF Sabre 4. The drop tank type is not correct for that version either by the way (make of that what you will). Not quite sure why that render was released with the initial announcement.

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4 hours ago, Christer A said:

I guess 112 Sqn markings are a given?

I thought that about the Hunter F.4 kit and look what happened :rolleyes:

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The Airfix website states a release date of Winter 2019-20, which is now. I realise that these dates are very fluid, however it could be one of the first new tool releases to be expected this year?

 

3 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Not quite sure why that render was released with the initial announcement.

That’s an interesting line. I hope I’m not reading too much into it and getting prematurely excited! 
Cheers.. Dave 

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7 hours ago, stever219 said:

Still need Meteor, Vampire and Venom night-fighters and Vampire and Venom day fighters, plus a Swift, all in 1/48th of course.

how could I omit the Vampire and Venom?

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4 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said:

no fuselage change in the real 1:1 aircraft so why would there be a change in 1/48 ??

leading edge of the wing root fairing

Edited by Charlie Hugo
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As regards the slatted wing / hard wing some in RAF Service were delivered with a particualr wing, some were later modified; then later when they left RAF Serivce they were modified for their later service,

 

I would recomend The Canadair Sabre in RAF Service by Duncan Curtis as it lists all the serial numbers by Sqn as to their wing types.

 

Julien

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14 hours ago, Charlie Hugo said:

I for one would love a non 6-3 wing with slats, afterall most of the SAAF Sabres used in Korea had this wing and converting any of the existing kits is not fun. My first one I did I cut a section out of the ESCI kits wing and the second one used an aftermarket conversion part. I considered using the Revell D wing at one stage but decided against that in the end.

The Revell D wing will not do. It has a flaw in wing sweep. The Special Hobby K is no help either - I tried but do not remember what did not match (apart form the longer span IIRC). The only solution is scatch building the slats or to get the Cutting Edge or Kiwi Models (both OOP but CE turns up on the bay from time to time).

 

Unless Airfix will do a slatted wing I will keep my Academy with resin bits. Anyway a good addition.

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Tell me I’m wrong, however does this CAD image show a leading edge slat panel line AND 6-3 wing fence? If I’m correct I would have thought that the slat panel lines would not appear on a hard wing. Happy to hear others thoughts and apologies for image quality. 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

 

49348101828_d52cd52f84_b.jpg

 

49348798427_f3b35fa2a1_c.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Tell me I’m wrong, however does this CAD image show a leading edge slat panel line AND 6-3 wing fence? If I’m correct I would have thought that the slat panel lines would not appear on a hard wing. Happy to hear others thoughts and apologies for image quality. 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

 

 

I don't know what the CAD is trying to show but it is incomplete and there are a number of oddities.

 

Here a real one albeit a Sabre 6 with slatted 6-3 wing

 

LWINGTIP.JPG?m=1345496111

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9 minutes ago, Charlie Hugo said:

I don't know what the CAD is trying to show but it is incomplete and there are a number of oddities.

 

Here a real one albeit a Sabre 6 with slatted 6-3 wing

Should one leave off the wing fence, then a Sabre Mk.6 might be another option? The website is still showing a Winter 2019-20 release date so we may see this kit sooner than we think? 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

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1 hour ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Should one leave off the wing fence, then a Sabre Mk.6 might be another option? The website is still showing a Winter 2019-20 release date so we may see this kit sooner than we think? 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

That is what ESCI did all those years ago, Released a slatted 6-3 wing and added a fence to depict the "hard" wing. Problem is with the slatted Sabre 4 you will need to modify the wing as well. I have pics of the work needed although not on-line. I can do so (I think) over the weekend

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I'm going to wait and see what the kit looks like rather than speculating, I'm sure with Duncan's ( @Sabrejet ) input they would have had the gotchas about the wings drummed home to them.

 

Really looking forward to this, I can see several in my collection.

 

So much for not adding to the stash this year, there's these Sabres, the Beaufort, Spitfire Vc and Sherman Firefly all jockeying for a position in the Wez stash.

Edited by Wez
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True @Wez, I’ll save further commentary until the sprue images are published, however I would have thought commenting on the company’s own CAD images is not quite the same as speculating. Anyway, like you I’m looking forward to all Airfix’s 2020 aviation releases so there’s plenty to celebrate. 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

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In 2018 Airfix was at the aircraft museum at Gardermoen, Norway, for 3D-scanning. On of the aircraft they scanned has so far been a secret. I have asked them at Telford, but they told me to wait and see. As far as I know, there is no slatted wing Sabres in UK museums. This leads to my speculation that they scanned the F-86F-40 on display at Gardermoen, or at least the wings.

 

Nils

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It's worth noting that Airfix early CAD (in particular) often shows a mis-mash of features across the published images and even in the same image - Wellington, Hunter, Vulcan, Shackleton and Phantom all spring to mind as examples where there were features apparent that were not for the version being announced.(and on two of those, the versions hinted at haven't yet come to fruition)

 

The fact that one image shows separate ammo doors would make the changes to the fuselage for a slatted wing relatively easy

 

a08109_canadair-sabre-f4_render_3.jpg

Edited by Dave Fleming
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I think that the Sabre at Cosford in 93 Sqdn markings is a slatted version. Far be for me to criticise Airfix but did RAF Sabres have the endplates on their drop tanks?

 

John

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22 minutes ago, jaw said:

 

I think that the Sabre at Cosford in 93 Sqdn markings is a slatted version. Far be for me to criticise Airfix but did RAF Sabres have the endplates on their drop tanks?

 

John

Cosford's Sabre is now a 6-3 wing Sabre but wears the markings it did when it was in RAF service (93 Sqn).  Whilst it was in RAF Service it retained the slatted wing (as did all of 93's Sabres).

 

You're correct, RAF Sabres didn't use drop tanks with endplates, I think that's more of what Dave was saying in post #46 of this thread and hints at a non-RAF version.  The darker coloured panel with the vent in it hints to that, Duncan ( @Sabrejet ) pointed out in many threads on the differences between an RAF Sabre F.4 and an F-86F equivalent would also point to different versions being available in time).

Edited by Wez
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9 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Tell me I’m wrong, however does this CAD image show a leading edge slat panel line AND 6-3 wing fence? If I’m correct I would have thought that the slat panel lines would not appear on a hard wing. Happy to hear others thoughts and apologies for image quality. 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

 

49348101828_d52cd52f84_b.jpg

 

 

 

The only sabre wing I have seen with the slat line and a fence like that is the A that was based at Duxford. They closed the slats on that one and fitted the fence

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9 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Should one leave off the wing fence, then a Sabre Mk.6 might be another option? The website is still showing a Winter 2019-20 release date so we may see this kit sooner than we think? 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

 

The Mk. 6 however featured several different details on the fuselage as a result of using the Orenda engine. I'm sure many modellers would simply not bother but the differences are there

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