1/48 - North American/Canadair F-86F-40 Sabre F.4 - released - new CMK sets

[Homebee]

After the 1/72nd kit (link), Airfix is to release during Winter 2019-2020 (?) a new tool 1/48th Canadair Sabre Mk.4 kit - ref. A08109

https://uk.airfix.com/products/canadair-sabre-f4-a08109

 

 

3D render

 

V.P.

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Homebee

[davmarx]

MMHHH, nice, an Italian Air Force "A.M.I." Sabre ex RAF could be a good idea! 

[Troy Smith]

OK, @Sabrejet, since the last thread got pulled,  can you now put me out of my misery and say if this is a slatted or 6-3 hard wing....or have you convinced them of the wisdom of both

 

for those puzzled,  early Sabres have a slatted wing,  from the F-86F-30 model this was replaced with a 6-3 hard wing (6 in extension at root 3 at tip, hence name) 

So, F-86A, E and F up to dash 30, plus early Canadair have the slatted wing, but the two main 1/48th F models, Hasegawa and Academy are F86-F-30 models with the 6-3 wing...

Sabre nuts have been cross kitting Revell F-86D wings, which are slatted, but it uses two kits, it's not a straight swap, and the sweep angle is a little off the the Revell D....

and...as a picture helps...

 

 

[Charlie Hugo]

Well it does complete Airfix's classic RAF jet fighters in 48th scale, now we need Airfix to downscale the Meteor, Hunter and Javelin to 72nd scale to complete the jet fighters in a classic scale..

[Charlie Hugo]

7 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

OK, @Sabrejet, since the last thread got pulled,  can you now put me out of my misery and say if this is a slatted or 6-3 hard wing....or have you convinced them of the wisdom of both

 

for those puzzled,  early Sabres have a slatted wing,  from the F-86F-30 model this was replaced with a 6-3 hard wing (6 in extension at root 3 at tip, hence name) 

So, F-86A, E and F up to dash 30, plus early Canadair have the slatted wing, but the two main 1/48th F models, Hasegawa and Academy are F86-F-30 models with the 6-3 wing...

Sabre nuts have been cross kitting Revell F-86D wings, which are slatted, but it uses two kits, it's not a straight swap, and the sweep angle is a little off the the Revell D....

and...as a picture helps...

 

 

 

The Canadair Sabre Mk4 is equivalent to the F86E, but Canadair as with the  USAF rewinged the early slatted non 6-3 wing to the hard 6-3 wing with a wing fence. Great pity that the earlier wing is not modelled but the "hard" 6-3 wing seems to be the more the standard fitting for the Sabre Mk4. Not sure how many Canadair Sabre Mk4's were fitted with the early wing, and for how long before the refitting occurred. The CAD drawing seems to show the hard wing.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Charlie Hugo

[Troy Smith]

I can see the render shows a wing fence. Just in the last pulled thread, @Sabrejet revealed he'd been helping Airfix, which is a good thing,  but wasn't going to say today about the wing

4 minutes ago, Charlie Hugo said:

Great pity that the earlier wing is not modelled but the "hard" 6-3 wing is more the standard fitting for the Sabre Mk4.

Blinkin' stupid if this ANOTHER 6-3 wing given the two existing kits though....

[Charlie Hugo]

3 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

I can see the render shows a wing fence. Just in the last pulled thread, @Sabrejet revealed he'd been helping Airfix, which is a good thing,  but wasn't going to say today about the wing

Blinkin' stupid if this ANOTHER 6-3 wing given the two existing kits though....

I for one would love a non 6-3 wing with slats, afterall most of the SAAF Sabres used in Korea had this wing and converting any of the existing kits is not fun. My first one I did I cut a section out of the ESCI kits wing and the second one used an aftermarket conversion part. I considered using the Revell D wing at one stage but decided against that in the end.

[Work In Progress]

Wait and see how it's tooled. Maybe the wings will be on a separate sprue

[Charlie Hugo]

1 minute ago, Work In Progress said:

Wait and see how it's tooled. Maybe the wings will be on a separate sprue

would require some fuselage changes a swell. Look at the leading edge of the wing and where/how it meets the fuselage, On the non 6-3 wing it is 3" behind the ammo tank and on the 6-3 wing 3" into the ammo tank, A portion of the leading edge drops down to allow the ammo bay to be opened on the aircraft. If you know about it, it is very obvious

[Charlie Hugo]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

I can see the render shows a wing fence. Just in the last pulled thread, @Sabrejet revealed he'd been helping Airfix, which is a good thing,  but wasn't going to say today about the wing

Blinkin' stupid if this ANOTHER 6-3 wing given the two existing kits though....

What is interesting is that Wikipedia  says the RAF aircraft were rewinged during refurbishment before being handed over to other NATO forces. Personally don't think so, not an area I investigated as I was only interested in SAAF usage of the Sabre.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Charlie Hugo

[Julien]

57 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

I can see the render shows a wing fence. Just in the last pulled thread, @Sabrejet revealed he'd been helping Airfix, which is a good thing,  but wasn't going to say today about the wing

Blinkin' stupid if this ANOTHER 6-3 wing given the two existing kits though....

Not stupid at all but business. The other kits dont make money for airfix, if they identified an opening for this then they will look to exploit it. The hasegawa kit is expensive now, and the other kit is not showing in stock at some major retailers.  

 

The aircraft serviced with the RAF in this state and many countries afterwards. 

 

Hopefully it will be at a decent price point like the recent Spits and P-51s and I will buy a few. Even more if they do tool a slatted wing as well.

 

Julien

[Work In Progress]

2 minutes ago, Julien said:

Hopefully it will be at a decent price point

It's £32.99, says so on the website

[Julien]

1 minute ago, Work In Progress said:

It's £32.99, says so on the website

Seems decent enough to me

[Graham T]

Well that's just Dandy  Typically I'm in the middle of building/converting the Eduard (Hasegawa) kit at the moment!

[Work In Progress]

2 minutes ago, Julien said:

Seems decent enough to me

A fiver less than what the Hasegawa F-30 pre-order lists at over at Hannants so it's certainly the right sort of range. Haven't seen an Academy one on sale for ages, presumably it will reappear one day but undoubtedly at a new price from what they were back in about 2011 when it last got a release.

[Christer A]

I guess 112 Sqn markings are a given?

[stever219]

Looking at that rendering the ammunition tank and gun access doors are rendered in a darker tone, as is a small access panel near the engine.  In the past this has generally indicated that these are separate components.  That being the case I am hoping that the kit designer will take advantage of the separate ammunition tank door to provide different doors to accommodate the different wings that, in an ideal world, we’re all hoping for.  I hope I'm not fuelling unfounded expectation here but, please Mr Airfix, make a slatted wing for me......

[stever219]

7 minutes ago, Christer A said:

I guess 112 Sqn markings are a given?

I think mention has already been made that 3 and 4 Squadrons RAFG are in the pipeline

 

92, 66 and 20 would definitely get my vote, in fact just about all of the RAF Sabre units would be very acceptable.

[stever219]

1 hour ago, Charlie Hugo said:

Well it does complete Airfix's classic RAF jet fighters in 48th scale, now we need Airfix to downscale the Meteor, Hunter and Javelin to 72nd scale to complete the jet fighters in a classic scale..

Still need Meteor, Vampire and Venom night-fighters and Vampire and Venom day fighters, plus a Swift, all in 1/48th of course.

[baldwin8]

@Troy Smith , When dealing with Canadair Sabres, it is really best to take into account the Constructor Number(C/N) list for the various changes introduced.

The change from slatted wing to the non-slatted 6-3 wing began at C/N 701 XD780 and carried through to C/N 1400 RCAF 23610. At C/N 1401 RCAF 23611 the slats on the 6-3 were re-introduced until the last, C/N 1815. Early Sabre 6's with the hard wing were later equipped with the slats.

 

This information is contained in the very detailed book "Canadair Sabre" by Larry Milberry.

[k5054nz]

 

2 hours ago, Charlie Hugo said:

Well it does complete Airfix's classic RAF jet fighters in 48th scale

 

26 minutes ago, stever219 said:

Still need Meteor, Vampire and Venom night-fighters and Vampire and Venom day fighters, plus a Swift, all in 1/48th of course.

I was about to ask for a link to Airfix 1/48 Vampires and Venoms!

 

It looks very nice. I expect this kit will do very well, bravo Airfix.

 

Now I'll take my time to be That Guy - such a shame it's not a CAC-built Avon Sabre...😆 (seriously though Airfix, please consider this for 2021!)

[RichG]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Blinkin' stupid if this ANOTHER 6-3 wing given the two existing kits though....

Not really.  

 

I think what will be of primary importance to Airfix will be what was the configuration of the majority of  jets used in RAF service, that they wish to replicate. They are clearly marketing a range of 1/48 UK post-war fighters to what they consider their core customer base. The existence of other manufacturers kits / particular variants will be of secondary importance.  

 

Similarly they have a series of cold war jets in British service from the 70's / 80's in 1/72 scale.  

 

Rich

Edited January 6, 2020 by RichG

[Troy Smith]

6 minutes ago, RichG said:

I think what will be of primary importance to Airfix will be what was the configuration of the majority of  jets used in RAF service, that they wish to replicate.

IIRC, when Eagle Strike did a series of RAF Sabre sheets (I got 1-4 cheap in a Squadron sale)

nearly all the options were for slatted wing,....  

all slatted wing

Top option, slatted wing

not stated

not stated, and the sheets are too hand,  only the  images. but i did go through them and think 'eh?' about the options, and had only planned on keeping Vol.2, which suggests that the majority were slatted.

 

35 minutes ago, baldwin8 said:

When dealing with Canadair Sabres, it is really best to take into account the Constructor Number(C/N) list for the various changes introduced.

The change from slatted wing to the non-slatted 6-3 wing began at C/N 701 XD780 and carried through to C/N 1400 RCAF 23610. At C/N 1401 RCAF 23611 the slats on the 6-3 were re-introduced until the last, C/N 1815. Early Sabre 6's with the hard wing were later equipped with the slats.

 

This information is contained in the very detailed book "Canadair Sabre" by Larry Milberry.

Offhand I don't know what the breakdown was number wise.  When I can be bothered I'll have a look at Cold War Shield 2...can't remember if it says in there though,  if possible could you give an idea of the breakdown please., as I'm sure this would be of interest to others as well.

 

Anyway,  the chap who does know, has not as yet posted..... 

[baldwin8]

@Troy Smith by breakdown, I assume your referring to Constructor Numbers? This is it. Notice I do not use the term "Mark" in the list when describing the Canadair Sabre versions. The "Mark" seems a unofficial one that I can't see mentioned in Canadair or RCAF documents, although I can not speak for the RAF Sabre 4. Various changes were made during manufacture of the aircraft and not all changes were version specific.

 

C/N                        Sabre  Variant

1                             1

2 to 352                  2

100                         3

353 to 790              4

791 to 1160            5

1161 to 1815          6

[RichG]

31 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

when Eagle Strike did a series of RAF Sabre sheets (I got 1-4 cheap in a Squadron sale)

nearly all the options were for slatted wing,....  

Very nice! 

 

Its a fair point you make - I've always found the Sabre wing issue confusing and the assignment of "mark" numbers by Canadair and the RAF no indication / help at all (which you may have expected).  I have to say I have no idea what was most prevalent in RAF service, but I guess my point was that Airfix's research would have led them in a particular direction, rather than being unduly influenced by other kits available.

 

Rich

Edited January 6, 2020 by RichG